4/15 - Bulls (41-40) vs. Toronto (32-49) - 7 pm, CSN

[David]

oh i thought you meant number 2 player. i suck

 

i realized it after i posted it. i should've clarified.

[David]

I wish we COULD get LeBron though. It sure feels like he's going to make the eastern conference a living hell for the foreseeable future ala Jordan.

[cubswin2009]

Vinny is the worst coach in the NBA

[wolf stansson]

I wish we COULD get LeBron though. It sure feels like he's going to make the eastern conference a living hell for the foreseeable future ala Jordan.

I'm ready to finally admit this, and believe me it isn't easy. I was sitting here tonight, thinking about LeBron. I do that sometimes; think about LeBron. LeBron can and very likely will surpass Jordan. Barring injury or other unnatural circumstance, there is nothing Jordan could do that this man can't and more. Every team in the East and maybe the whole league is now in NBA purgatory. Ain't nobody winning a title without an LeBron injury or some unholy player pairing like Wade and Howard joining forces.

 

League over, go home.

[goonys evil twin]

If the Bulls signed LeBron, I'd trade in my Blackhawks jersey for a Bulls jersey.

[David]

If the Bulls signed LeBron, I'd trade in my Blackhawks jersey for a Bulls jersey.

 

 

:shock: :shock: :shock:

 

he has returned in his original form.

[1908]

LeBron can and very likely will surpass Jordan. Barring injury or other unnatural circumstance, there is nothing Jordan could do that this man can't and more.

Lebron's production in his age 23 and age 24 seasons has been Jordan-like, no doubt. But he's not surpassing Mike yet.

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html

 

PER at Age 23: Mike 29.8 - Lebron 29.1

Age 24: Mike 31.7 - Lebron 31.5

[ChiCubsFan]

LeBron can and very likely will surpass Jordan. Barring injury or other unnatural circumstance, there is nothing Jordan could do that this man can't and more.

Lebron's production in his age 23 and age 24 seasons has been Jordan-like, no doubt. But he's not surpassing Mike yet.

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html

 

PER at Age 23: Mike 29.8 - Lebron 29.1

Age 24: Mike 31.7 - Lebron 31.5

 

Still got him beat!

[17 Seconds]

I wish we COULD get LeBron though. It sure feels like he's going to make the eastern conference a living hell for the foreseeable future ala Jordan.

I'm ready to finally admit this, and believe me it isn't easy. I was sitting here tonight, thinking about LeBron. I do that sometimes; think about LeBron. LeBron can and very likely will surpass Jordan. Barring injury or other unnatural circumstance, there is nothing Jordan could do that this man can't and more. Every team in the East and maybe the whole league is now in NBA purgatory. Ain't nobody winning a title without an LeBron injury or some unholy player pairing like Wade and Howard joining forces.

 

League over, go home.

 

until lebron comes remotely close to accomplishing what jordan did in the playoffs over his career, it's pointless to compare them. there are just so many legendary shots and performances in general from jordan that made him so special. right now lebron has the 48 point game 5 against detroit and that's it. it's going to be about a decade before we can start comparing lbj to mj.

 

raw talent/skill wise? that's another story.

[Magnetic Curses]

I wish we COULD get LeBron though. It sure feels like he's going to make the eastern conference a living hell for the foreseeable future ala Jordan.

I'm ready to finally admit this, and believe me it isn't easy. I was sitting here tonight, thinking about LeBron. I do that sometimes; think about LeBron. LeBron can and very likely will surpass Jordan. Barring injury or other unnatural circumstance, there is nothing Jordan could do that this man can't and more. Every team in the East and maybe the whole league is now in NBA purgatory. Ain't nobody winning a title without an LeBron injury or some unholy player pairing like Wade and Howard joining forces.

 

League over, go home.

 

i know what you mean, it's a wonder why they even play the games. he's got such a monopoly on rings right now it's unfair.

 

lebron james is a great player, oscar robertson great.

[RedFlash]

I wish we COULD get LeBron though. It sure feels like he's going to make the eastern conference a living hell for the foreseeable future ala Jordan.

I'm ready to finally admit this, and believe me it isn't easy. I was sitting here tonight, thinking about LeBron. I do that sometimes; think about LeBron. LeBron can and very likely will surpass Jordan. Barring injury or other unnatural circumstance, there is nothing Jordan could do that this man can't and more. Every team in the East and maybe the whole league is now in NBA purgatory. Ain't nobody winning a title without an LeBron injury or some unholy player pairing like Wade and Howard joining forces.

 

League over, go home.

 

I am not ready to hand the keys of the NBA over to Lebron yet. As great as Lebron is (and I believe he would have been a All Pro TE in football had he went that way) he doesn't have a Scottie Pippen, a Kobe Bryant (pre-Shaq trade), or a Dwayne Wade running mate on his team. As much as I love Mo Williams (continue to represent the Tide, Mo) he is still not a good enough running mate to help Lebron get over the hump, a team concept centered on a great player and two really good players better then one SUPER great player and a bunch of solid players). The was a reason why the Spurs kicked the crap out of the Cavs a couple of yrs ago. I realize LBJ is better now then 2 yrs ago, but the talent level around him hasn't improved all that much. You replace guys like Hughes with Wally Z, Drew Gooden with Ben Wallace, Shannon Brown with Delonte West, and Donyell Marshall with Joe Smith and really the only upgrade from that Cavs team to this yr's team is going from Gibson as starting PG to Mo Williams, otherwise this Cavs team is no better then that Cavs.

 

Hold off on crowning LBJ as dictator of the NBA until he earns his due in the playoffs. I am prepare to give LBJ his due, only when he has DONE SOMETHING in his NBA career.

[Outshined_One]

I wish we COULD get LeBron though. It sure feels like he's going to make the eastern conference a living hell for the foreseeable future ala Jordan.

I'm ready to finally admit this, and believe me it isn't easy. I was sitting here tonight, thinking about LeBron. I do that sometimes; think about LeBron. LeBron can and very likely will surpass Jordan. Barring injury or other unnatural circumstance, there is nothing Jordan could do that this man can't and more. Every team in the East and maybe the whole league is now in NBA purgatory. Ain't nobody winning a title without an LeBron injury or some unholy player pairing like Wade and Howard joining forces.

 

League over, go home.

 

until lebron comes remotely close to accomplishing what jordan did in the playoffs over his career, it's pointless to compare them. there are just so many legendary shots and performances in general from jordan that made him so special. right now lebron has the 48 point game 5 against detroit and that's it. it's going to be about a decade before we can start comparing lbj to mj.

 

raw talent/skill wise? that's another story.

 

I think LeBron is a great player in his own right, but I just don't think you can compare him to Jordan. As Bill Simmons mentioned today, Jordan player in an era with legal hand checks and looser rules with flagrant fouls. I can't even imagine how good Jordan would be if he had played with the current rules in place.

 

As weird as it sounds, those two rule changes effectively mean Jordan played in a different era.

[Derwood]

 

I am not ready to hand the keys of the NBA over to Lebron yet. As great as Lebron is (and I believe he would have been a All Pro TE in football had he went that way) he doesn't have a Scottie Pippen, a Kobe Bryant (pre-Shaq trade), or a Dwayne Wade running mate on his team. As much as I love Mo Williams (continue to represent the Tide, Mo) he is still not a good enough running mate to help Lebron get over the hump, a team concept centered on a great player and two really good players better then one SUPER great player and a bunch of solid players).

 

maybe not a Pippen, but Ilgauskus is way better than Cartwright/Purdue, and guys like Williams, West and Varejao are close enough to Paxson, Armstrong, Kerr or Grant to compliment LeBron.

 

I don't completely buy the "LeBron needs to have legendary playoff games and win multiple championships" angle either. Then again, I don't buy the arguments that Dan Marino wasn't as good as QB's X,Y and Z because he never won a Super Bowl either

[wolf stansson]

 

I am not ready to hand the keys of the NBA over to Lebron yet. As great as Lebron is (and I believe he would have been a All Pro TE in football had he went that way) he doesn't have a Scottie Pippen, a Kobe Bryant (pre-Shaq trade), or a Dwayne Wade running mate on his team. As much as I love Mo Williams (continue to represent the Tide, Mo) he is still not a good enough running mate to help Lebron get over the hump, a team concept centered on a great player and two really good players better then one SUPER great player and a bunch of solid players).

 

maybe not a Pippen, but Ilgauskus is way better than Cartwright/Purdue, and guys like Williams, West and Varejao are close enough to Paxson, Armstrong, Kerr or Grant to compliment LeBron.

Plus, LeBron doesn't have the Magic Lakers, Isiah Pistons and Larry Celtics to contend with. He has the Dwight Magic, Kobe Lakers and the big 3 Celtics.

 

 

Either way, most in this thread for some reason decided to forget how to comprehend the written word. Nobody is saying LeBron definitely will or already has surpassed Jordan. I'm just saying, it's a probability. Hand check rules, Jordan rules, blah blah blah. I love Michael as much as anyone, but there is nothing on the court that Jordan could do that LeBron can't. There are however some things LeBron can do that Jordan couldn't.

 

The variable is the great eye of the Jordan and his thirst for domination. Does LeBron have that? Does it matter? We'll see.

[David]

 

I am not ready to hand the keys of the NBA over to Lebron yet. As great as Lebron is (and I believe he would have been a All Pro TE in football had he went that way) he doesn't have a Scottie Pippen, a Kobe Bryant (pre-Shaq trade), or a Dwayne Wade running mate on his team. As much as I love Mo Williams (continue to represent the Tide, Mo) he is still not a good enough running mate to help Lebron get over the hump, a team concept centered on a great player and two really good players better then one SUPER great player and a bunch of solid players).

 

maybe not a Pippen, but Ilgauskus is way better than Cartwright/Purdue, and guys like Williams, West and Varejao are close enough to Paxson, Armstrong, Kerr or Grant to compliment LeBron.

Plus, LeBron doesn't have the Magic Lakers, Isiah Pistons and Larry Celtics to contend with. He has the Dwight Magic, Kobe Lakers and the big 3 Celtics.

 

 

Either way, most in this thread for some reason decided to forget how to comprehend the written word. Nobody is saying LeBron definitely will or already has surpassed Jordan. I'm just saying, it's a probability. Hand check rules, Jordan rules, blah blah blah. I love Michael as much as anyone, but there is nothing on the court that Jordan could do that LeBron can't. There are however some things LeBron can do that Jordan couldn't.

The variable is the great eye of the Jordan and his thirst for domination. Does LeBron have that? Does it matter? We'll see.

 

 

But isn't that all what it comes down to anyway? There are players who have been more "skilled" than Michael. I mean, Magic almost averaged a triple double a couple of seasons, just to name one off the top of my head. But the competitiveness and all that is what set MJ so far apart.

[wolf stansson]

There are players who have been more "skilled" than Michael. I mean, Magic almost averaged a triple double a couple of seasons, just to name one off the top of my head. But the competitiveness and all that is what set MJ so far apart.

Michael was waaaay more talented than Magic Johnson. Faster, stronger, jumped higher, more coordinated, everything.

Edited April 2, 2009 by wolf stansson

[Derwood]

After LeBron wins a ring (this year or soon), we'll see if he chooses to sit back and ride it out for the rest of his career, or push to get better

[David]

There are players who have been more "skilled" than Michael. I mean, Magic almost averaged a triple double a couple of seasons, just to name one off the top of my head. But the competitiveness and all that is what set MJ so far apart.

Michael was waaaay more talented than Magic Johnson. Faster, stronger, jumped higher, more coordinate, everything.

 

It's such a subjective thing though. I mean, so many guys in the league have all those athletic abilities and don't amount to much of anything. JR Smith comes immediately to mind.

 

Either way, like everyone else has said, it won't be much of a conversation until LBJ starts winning rings, right or wrong (in basketball, I tend to think it's right, because the best teams/best players seem able to impose their will enough to win most of the time). It's pretty much inevitable that he will, though, like it was with Shaq about 10 years ago.

[Magnetic Curses]

There are players who have been more "skilled" than Michael. I mean, Magic almost averaged a triple double a couple of seasons, just to name one off the top of my head. But the competitiveness and all that is what set MJ so far apart.

Michael was waaaay more talented than Magic Johnson. Faster, stronger, jumped higher, more coordinate, everything.

 

of any player who has ever played, i want the ball in MJ's hands down by one with seconds left. that's any player, anywhere, at anytime.

 

i look at the league right now and i can't even say that about lebron right now. if i had my choice, i'd take both kobe and wade over lebron in terms of last shot.

 

that's not the entire story, but that's a huge piece. who do you want taking that shot? or at least, whose hands should the ball be in? MJ 365.

[wolf stansson]

There are players who have been more "skilled" than Michael. I mean, Magic almost averaged a triple double a couple of seasons, just to name one off the top of my head. But the competitiveness and all that is what set MJ so far apart.

Michael was waaaay more talented than Magic Johnson. Faster, stronger, jumped higher, more coordinate, everything.

 

of any player who has ever played, i want the ball in MJ's hands down by one with seconds left. that's any player, anywhere, at anytime.

 

i look at the league right now and i can't even say that about lebron right now. if i had my choice, i'd take both kobe and wade over lebron in terms of last shot.

 

that's not the entire story, but that's a huge piece. who do you want taking that shot? or at least, whose hands should the ball be in? MJ 365.

Well first, this is obviously a subjective argument and second we're talking about what we think LeBron can become vs what Jordan was, so that's just conjecture but I'm conflicted how I feel about what I think is going to come. On one hand, I'm a die hard Bulls fan who is dreading being the equivalent of a Pacers fan in the 90's. On the other hand, I love NBA basketball and LeBron is incredibly fun to watch.

 

It's such a subjective thing though. I mean, so many guys in the league have all those athletic abilities and don't amount to much of anything. JR Smith comes immediately to mind.

Well it's like a power pitcher who walks too many guys. Yes he has these abilities that could allow them to dominate, but they also lack the ability to harness it. There are so many different kinds of skills and intelligences that play into the make up of a player beyond just the ability to run and jump. My whole argument here is that I think LeBron has the combination that could propel him beyond Jordan as a basketball player. Will it happen? I don't know. Can it? Certainly.

[Guest]

Let me know when LeBron wins his first defensive player of the year.

[rawaction]

Let me know when LeBron wins his first defensive player of the year.

 

Why? It's not like Jordan ever deserved one either. Not saying Jordan was not a great defensive player, though, as he runs circles around Lebron defensively.

[Guest]

Let me know when LeBron wins his first defensive player of the year.

 

Why? It's not like Jordan ever deserved one either. Not saying Jordan was not a great defensive player, though, as he runs circles around Lebron defensively.

Well, that was the main point. People discount Jordan's defensive ability when comparing other players to him. LBJ has a long way to go on that side of the ball before he can be compared to Jordan.

[1908]

Well first, this is obviously a subjective argument and second we're talking about what we think LeBron can become vs what Jordan was

I didn't do that. I compared their production at the same ages, and they're virtually identical with a slight nod to Jordan so far. Why you think Lebron is on his way to surpassing Jordan? I'm still not convinced Lebron will be able to put together four consecutive 31+ PER seasons like Michael did. Outside of Shaq and Wilt, who both dwarfed their opponents physically, no one besides Jordan has been able to sustain that level of dominance. I agree it's possible for Lebron to do it, I just don't think we've seen enough to even consider it likely.

[rawaction]

Let me know when LeBron wins his first defensive player of the year.

 

Why? It's not like Jordan ever deserved one either. Not saying Jordan was not a great defensive player, though, as he runs circles around Lebron defensively.

Well, that was the main point. People discount Jordan's defensive ability when comparing other players to him. LBJ has a long way to go on that side of the ball before he can be compared to Jordan.

 

Kobe has defensive ability. Wade's pretty decent too.