4/15 - Bulls (41-40) vs. Toronto (32-49) - 7 pm, CSN

[wolf stansson]

Ben Gordon is good. He can't be your 1st or 2nd option, but he is a very useful player.

 

Ben would be a second option on good to great teams.

Incorrect.

 

Why not? He averages 20 points and is usually the go-to guy on a terrible team. How many players who score 20 a game are not the second scoring option?

 

Citing PPG by itself is getting dangerously close to citing RBIs

Correct. Ben Gordon on a very good team does not score 20 and even if he does it's irrelevant without taking team defense, shot selection, team offense and per minute efficiency into account. Which is what I was getting at without really explaining it very well or at all. Second scoring option implies he plays major minutes and gets the second most looks on a good to great team. I don't think that would be possible or wise unless you had an unrealistically good front court.

 

Ben Gordon would be devastating on a team like the Lakers, Celtics or Spurs. On a team where he is the second or third best player, he's good and valuable, but the team isn't very good.

[Flames24Rulz]

Ben Gordon is good. He can't be your 1st or 2nd option, but he is a very useful player.

 

Ben would be a second option on good to great teams.

Incorrect.

 

Why not? He averages 20 points and is usually the go-to guy on a terrible team. How many players who score 20 a game are not the second scoring option?

 

Citing PPG by itself is getting dangerously close to citing RBIs

Correct. Ben Gordon on a very good team does not score 20 and even if he does it's irrelevant without taking team defense, shot selection, team offense and per minute efficiency into account. Which is what I was getting at without really explaining it very well or at all. Second scoring option implies he plays major minutes and gets the second most looks on a good to great team. I don't think that would be possible or wise unless you had an unrealistically good front court.

 

Ben Gordon would be devastating on a team like the Lakers, Celtics or Spurs. On a team where he is the second or third best player, he's good and valuable, but the team isn't very good.

 

I think he'd be great if we land Amare/Bosh and Rose matures. If Gordon in his prime is your 3rd option, I think you're going to have a pretty good team.

 

And I think Salmons can handle guarding 3's. Obviously we'll get more of a look at that the rest of this season, but he does make up for his lack of size at the 3 with his quickness and long arms. I'm all for the 2010 plan too, but I still believe you have to keep Gordon to keep the backcourt where it's at. For all the criticism that Gordon had coming into this season with all those people saying he couldn't work together with Rose, I think they're doing a solid job. They've really been the only two guys that have came to play from start to finish this year.

[Flames24Rulz]

Also in the 'race' for the playoffs, both the Bucks and Bobcats lost tonight.

[Wilson A2000]

Ben Gordon on a very good team does not score 20

 

Why not? Outside of Rose, he is the only player opponents of the Bulls have to care about. If he was a #2 scorer on a good team, he would not get the ball as much, but would get great looks.

[wolf stansson]

Ben Gordon on a very good team does not score 20

 

Why not? Outside of Rose, he is the only player opponents of the Bulls have to care about. If he was a #2 scorer on a good team, he would not get the ball as much, but would get great looks.

I explained it sufficiently in the post you quoted.

 

 

Obviously some people like Gordon, some people don't and some people, like me, are in the middle because we know he's useful but also know he has major limitations.

 

The question you need to ask is how much is he worth? He's going to get paid. He's going to get paid more than he's worth. If you want to build a champion on the shoulders of a point guard, you need really good to great sidekicks. If Ben Gordon is willing to take third fiddle money (which he turned down in the offseason, 5-50) then give it to him, but he's made it clear he's doesn't want third fiddle money.

 

We already wasted huge cash on Deng and it's going to be hard to get rid of. We absolutely cannot afford to make another mistake of giving too much money to a second tier guy. Not if we want to compete with the Cleveland LeBron's and the Orlando Dwight's.

[cubswin2009]

Here comes a blowout.

[Soul]

Also in the race to get summarily blown out in the first round (then get a bad draft pick for the trouble), both the Bucks and Bobcats lost tonight.

[Flames24Rulz]

Also in the race to get summarily blown out in the first round (then get a bad draft pick for the trouble), both the Bucks and Bobcats lost tonight.

 

Again, I'd rather make the playoffs than get a lottery pick in a real bad draft class.

 

You should be arguing whether or not Del Negro will get fired or not if we make or miss the playoffs; not the draft pick excuse.

[cubswin2009]

This team is hilarious. Honestly Vinny is worse than Jim Boylan.

[SpongeWorthy]

Tyrus is pretty worthless again.

[wolf stansson]

Tyrus is pretty worthless again.

Tyrus has always been Tyrus.

[RedFlash]

Tyrus is pretty worthless again.

 

Which is why I am hoping the Bulls ship his worthless butt out this offseason. Thomas is going to be up for an extension, and you know this bum is going to ask for "big man" money and he is clearly not worth more then MLE money. I am hoping that another team fell in love with Thomas' game when T was playing well and offer Paxson a decent deal for him. My worst case scenerio is that Tyrus plays well next yr for the full year and ask for a 5/6 yr 50/60 million dollar extension and then pulls a Stromile Swift. The Bulls can't afford to crappy long-term deals on this team, especially if they plan on making a run at one of the major stars in the class of 2010, so again I am hoping Thomas and BG has the same travel agent, cause I want both leaving Chicago this offseason.

[cubswin2009]

Tyrus is pretty worthless again.

Yikes you mean we should have gotten rid of him while his value was high? Stunning.

[Derwood]

Gordon and Rose both shot like Howry too. Can't pin that loss entirely on Tyrus

[UMFan83]

This game is kinda cool because its being played at the old Spectrum which hasn't been used for the 76ers in like 13 years.

[Sammy Sofa]

Gargh.

 

Can't believe Thomas tanked that wide open shot.

[cubswin2009]

Another 4th quarter loss. FIRE VINNY

[RedFlash]

Another 4th quarter loss. FIRE VINNY

 

I haven't seen a coach as badly prepared and constantly outcoached on a daily basis since Tim Floyd. I hope for the same fate for VDN....

[manbearcub]

Another 4th quarter loss. FIRE VINNY

 

I haven't seen a coach as badly prepared and constantly outcoached on a daily basis since Tim Floyd. I hope for the same fate for VDN....

Floyd lasted for 2 and a half seasons. Lets hope not.

[RedFlash]

Another 4th quarter loss. FIRE VINNY

 

I haven't seen a coach as badly prepared and constantly outcoached on a daily basis since Tim Floyd. I hope for the same fate for VDN....

Floyd lasted for 2 and a half seasons. Lets hope not.

 

Of course not, but I hope the share the same fate of being fired by the Bulls.

[Soul]

Also in the race to get summarily blown out in the first round (then get a bad draft pick for the trouble), both the Bucks and Bobcats lost tonight.

 

Again, I'd rather make the playoffs than get a lottery pick in a real bad draft class.

 

You should be arguing whether or not Del Negro will get fired or not if we make or miss the playoffs; not the draft pick excuse.

 

 

That's like arguing you'd rather be blown up by a grenade than shot in the head.

 

My feelings on Vinny are well known, it seems like a broken record talking about him getting fired at this point. I was the guy who hated the hiring at the time, remember?

[Wilson A2000]

Tyrus is pretty worthless again.

 

Vinny has to cut his minutes dramatically to get it into his head that he cannot shoot the ball outside of 10 feet. Who does Tyrus think he is?

[Guest]

I was the guy who hated the hiring at the time, remember?

I really don't think you were alone on that one.

[Soul]

I was the guy who hated the hiring at the time, remember?

I really don't think you were alone on that one.

 

Alright, I was one of the guys.

[manbearcub]

one positive about vinny is, its really, really funny to watch him point at something every few minutes and generally stand around looking like a [expletive]. no offense to retards.