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[Guest]

Personally I think this is sour grapes on Ned Yost and the Brewers org. The Brewers org has seen 3 no-hitters either thrown for or against them, since the Brewers came into existance. The last no-hitter thrown for the Brewers was in 1987. So I will repeat it, Ned Yost and the Brewers are protesting it, not for CC, but because they want a no-hitter accredited to the franchise, and wipe the ugly taste out of the mouths from when Justin Verlander owned the Brewers.

 

This has to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.

 

Yeah, I'm sure Ned Yost was thinking about the history of the Brewers organization during today's game. That makes sense.

[SouthSideRyan]

Wah wah wah, CC and Milt Pappas can cry in each others arms abou it.

 

Man, i hate Milt Pappas. His woe is me act last time he sang the stretch was disturbing. You're like 65 years old Milt, get a life nutjob.

[TruffleShuffle]

"He accomplished a no-hitter and wasn't given what he deserved. That should have been a no-hitter," Yost said. "That's a stinking no-hitter we all got cheated from. I feel horrible for CC."

 

i feel horrible for him too, ned, but mostly because of what you're doing to his arm.

[CubColtPacer]

CC had 2 extra days off in between starts, since the Brewers were off on Monday and Thursday. It is not a big deal. That was not a basehit, if CC picks the ball up cleanly the batter would have been out. I am guessing it will be overtuned.

 

It won't be overturned. Decision on what constitutes a hit or error or the whatnot is to the discretion of the score keeper. I don't remember ever hearing MLB ever overturn a score keeper's call, nor shall they.

 

I doubt this one will be overturned (for the simple fact that I don't think MLB will appreciate someone backing into history, and will use their discretion on a borderline call to keep it the same).

However, scoring decisions are changed well after the fact all the time. For example, in Harden's first start, Marmol gave up 5 earned runs in the 9th. One of the early plays in the inning was Marmol fumbling a ball on a play that he probably should have had running towards the first base line. A couple of weeks later, this was changed to make that play an error. This meant that instead of 5 ER, Marmol gave up 1 ER that day.

[JenksFan5]

Put the shoe on the other foot. If Harden/Zambrano/Dempster had the same thing happen to him, Cub fans would up in arms about the scoring of that play. There is no way they would be talking about how Lou Piniella abused Harden.

 

It is pure jealousy. Don't shift the focus onto Yost. It was a no-hitter. Just give credit where credit is due. Why is that so hard?

[Little Slide Rooter]

"He accomplished a no-hitter and wasn't given what he deserved. That should have been a no-hitter," Yost said. "That's a stinking no-hitter we all got cheated from. I feel horrible for CC."

 

i feel horrible for him too, ned, but mostly because of what you're doing to his arm.

 

Im sure that he'll still be crying about it in the winter when he gets a record shattering contract.

[Illini Iceman]

Put the shoe on the other foot. If Harden/Zambrano/Dempster had the same thing happen to him, Cub fans would up in arms about the scoring of that play. There is no way they would be talking about how Lou Piniella abused Harden.

 

It is pure jealousy. Don't shift the focus onto Yost. It was a no-hitter. Just give credit where credit is due. Why is that so hard?

 

If the same thing happened with Harden people here would be taking about how Lou abused Harden. Were you rooting on Dusty as he "rode his horses" with big leads in '03? Learn anything from that?

 

Why as a Cubs fan would I care whether or not Sabathia gets a no hitter or not? If Sabathia had given up 6 runs and the Brewers had won 7-6 it would mean exactly the same to me as if he threw a no hitter and they won 7-0.

[JenksFan5]

As a baseball fan, it is fun to witness a no hitter. Being a Brewers fan, it was painful to watch the Brewers get no-hit by Verlander last year, but I still was cheering for him to do it when it was obvious that the game was not going to be won. I guess I like witnessing rare accomplishments in baseball. It is part of what makes the game great. Sure it is the same in the W-L column, but if that is all that matters to you, baseball can be kind of meaningless. It would be just as easy to look in the paper at the standings the day after a game without knowing how the win/loss was accompished.

[third eye]

I wonder if Ned:

 

1) Is unaware CC faded in the playoffs from overuse

 

or

 

2) Is aware of it but doesn't care -- he'll get him enough rest to keep him good enough in the playoffs, ride his arm into oblivion during the playoffs and then say bye-bye, someone else's problem for '09

 

or

 

3) Really doesn't understand or believe there is any danger here -- "I can simply pitch CC as much as I want and nothing bad can happen because he's a horse."

 

The way he's pitching him at the moment, I think it'll just be blind luck if there are no negative consequences.

 

I don't agree with Sabathia throwing this many CG (except for today) but why is this just assumed that Sabathia got lit up from being overused? He did face the 2 of the best teams in the AL last year in the postseason.

 

Okay, I guess he just can't beat good teams then.

 

Anyway a point I saw brought up on BTF is that a big part of a no hitter is holding on to it as you start counting down outs late. CC didn't have that pressure because of the hit. He didn't have to worry about making his perfect pitches because he had nothing to pitch for. (And a logical manager wouldn't have had him pitching to begin with.

 

 

Isn't this just another wrinkle in the "existence of clutch" argument? How someone performs under extreme pressure? I know it has been rehashed ad nauseum from a hitters perspective, but I wonder how h/9 splits vary for pitchers who have taken no hitters into the 7th inning (arbitrary cut off). More relevantly, if you were to to look at career h/9 for pitchers relative to how they performed in no-hitter type situations, I wonder how much variation there would be. I know sample size would be an issue here. But, if historically league wide h/9 was 9 - and I'm pulling that number out of my a** - then the odds of pitching 9 more outs without a hit would be 2/3*2/3*2/3 (no hit inning *3), or just under 30%. So we should see about 30% of no hitters taken into the 7th result in no-hitters. this obviously doesn't account for fatigue, so you would need to account for h/9 over the last three innings for the pitchers in question to compare apples to apples. In any case, I'd guess the h/9 is higher than the baseline for those innings. This really only speaks to anti-clutch, but does anyone know if there has been and study put out there about this?

[jaydee]

im just glad he threw 115+ pitches again. Thanks Ned Yost!!!!!

[jyoung55]

Put the shoe on the other foot. If Harden/Zambrano/Dempster had the same thing happen to him, Cub fans would up in arms about the scoring of that play. There is no way they would be talking about how Lou Piniella abused Harden.

 

It is pure jealousy. Don't shift the focus onto Yost. It was a no-hitter. Just give credit where credit is due. Why is that so hard?

 

 

Well with your extensive knowledge of the Cubs, I am sure that you were aware that Big Z had a no-no taken away from him by a bs umpire call at first a few years back. Granted it was a safe or out call but the Cubs didn't send a DVD of all of the replays of the call after the game. Thanks for your trolling though.

[Mugged By Fluffy]

Put the shoe on the other foot. If Harden/Zambrano/Dempster had the same thing happen to him, Cub fans would up in arms about the scoring of that play. There is no way they would be talking about how Lou Piniella abused Harden.

 

It is pure jealousy. Don't shift the focus onto Yost. It was a no-hitter. Just give credit where credit is due. Why is that so hard?

 

If the same thing happened with Harden people here would be taking about how Lou abused Harden. Were you rooting on Dusty as he "rode his horses" with big leads in '03? Learn anything from that?

 

Why as a Cubs fan would I care whether or not Sabathia gets a no hitter or not? If Sabathia had given up 6 runs and the Brewers had won 7-6 it would mean exactly the same to me as if he threw a no hitter and they won 7-0.

 

I don't think the Cubs fans around here care so much wether ir not CC pitched a no- hitter, nor do I think there is any jealousy on our parts. We are just sick and tired of Yost and his constant whining and griping all season long. The man has no integrity and no sense of preofessionalism.

 

You know--In '98, Riggleman was a man about it. Orie botched that easy grounder to 3rd and the 20 K Wood game ended as a one-hitter. I didnt Riggs complaining about the official scorer that Wood got screwed and how it should have been a no hitter.

[razzzorsharp]

Put the shoe on the other foot. If Harden/Zambrano/Dempster had the same thing happen to him, Cub fans would up in arms about the scoring of that play. There is no way they would be talking about how Lou Piniella abused Harden.

 

It is pure jealousy. Don't shift the focus onto Yost. It was a no-hitter. Just give credit where credit is due. Why is that so hard?

 

If the same thing happened with Harden people here would be taking about how Lou abused Harden. Were you rooting on Dusty as he "rode his horses" with big leads in '03? Learn anything from that?

 

Why as a Cubs fan would I care whether or not Sabathia gets a no hitter or not? If Sabathia had given up 6 runs and the Brewers had won 7-6 it would mean exactly the same to me as if he threw a no hitter and they won 7-0.

 

I don't think the Cubs fans around here care so much wether ir not CC pitched a no- hitter, nor do I think there is any jealousy on our parts. We are just sick and tired of Yost and his constant whining and griping all season long. The man has no integrity and no sense of preofessionalism.

 

You know--In '98, Riggleman was a man about it. Orie botched that easy grounder to 3rd and the 20 K Wood game ended as a one-hitter. I didnt Riggs complaining about the official scorer that Wood got screwed and how it should have been a no hitter.

 

Links?

[SouthSideRyan]

Put the shoe on the other foot. If Harden/Zambrano/Dempster had the same thing happen to him, Cub fans would up in arms about the scoring of that play. There is no way they would be talking about how Lou Piniella abused Harden.

 

It is pure jealousy. Don't shift the focus onto Yost. It was a no-hitter. Just give credit where credit is due. Why is that so hard?

 

If the same thing happened with Harden people here would be taking about how Lou abused Harden. Were you rooting on Dusty as he "rode his horses" with big leads in '03? Learn anything from that?

 

Why as a Cubs fan would I care whether or not Sabathia gets a no hitter or not? If Sabathia had given up 6 runs and the Brewers had won 7-6 it would mean exactly the same to me as if he threw a no hitter and they won 7-0.

 

I don't think the Cubs fans around here care so much wether ir not CC pitched a no- hitter, nor do I think there is any jealousy on our parts. We are just sick and tired of Yost and his constant whining and griping all season long. The man has no integrity and no sense of preofessionalism.

 

You know--In '98, Riggleman was a man about it. Orie botched that easy grounder to 3rd and the 20 K Wood game ended as a one-hitter. I didnt Riggs complaining about the official scorer that Wood got screwed and how it should have been a no hitter.

 

Links?

 

Sleep through last season?

[SouthSideRyan]

Oh and what's great about this is that it's not impossible for Sabathia to have a chance at an actual no hitter in September. Yost will certainly push him to the max to "make things right" It's gonna be great.

 

Another thing to watch is that Sabathia has 6 CGs in the NL right now. With 5 or 6 starts remaining, I could easily see Yost doing something stupid like trying to get CC a nice round 10 CGs. Ned Yost is probably what I'm looking most forward to watching in September.

 

In response to third eye, yeah it's more an anti-clutch argument than a clutch thing. I don't recall seeing any studies done with regard to this topic.

[Cynosure]

Don't really know why people don't think that call should be protested? He threw a no hitter and got it taken away from him because of a bad call. It sucks he couldn't celebrate it like every other no hitter that has been thrown, but he still deserves it.

[SouthSideRyan]

Don't really know why people don't think that call should be protested? He threw a no hitter and got it taken away from him because of a bad call. It sucks he couldn't celebrate it like every other no hitter that has been thrown, but he still deserves it.

 

People act like this was a Buckner ball. This was a slow roller that the pitcher couldn't pick up due to the spin on the ball. These things are called hits all the time. Changing the ruling or calling it an error to begin with because of some unwritten rule about only calling things hits on no doubters is dumb. Want the no hitter? Make the play. Just like everyone who complains about umpiring, don't leave it up to them. You want the accomplishment, overcome. This especially points out how dumb the ruling is, that it WAS THE FREAKIN PITCHER that "made the error" they're trying to charge here.

[Cynosure]

Don't really know why people don't think that call should be protested? He threw a no hitter and got it taken away from him because of a bad call. It sucks he couldn't celebrate it like every other no hitter that has been thrown, but he still deserves it.

 

People act like this was a Buckner ball. This was a slow roller that the pitcher couldn't pick up due to the spin on the ball. These things are called hits all the time. Changing the ruling or calling it an error to begin with because of some unwritten rule about only calling things hits on no doubters is dumb. Want the no hitter? Make the play. Just like everyone who complains about umpiring, don't leave it up to them. You want the accomplishment, overcome. This especially points out how dumb the ruling is, that it WAS THE FREAKIN PITCHER that "made the error" they're trying to charge here.

 

I understand they are charging the pitcher for the error, but it doesn't matter who makes the error (even though I don't agree with it) it still shouldn't be a hit. *IF* Sabathia comes up cleanly with the ball the runner is out... he did NOT come up cleanly with it which should be an error and not a hit.

[SouthSideRyan]

Don't really know why people don't think that call should be protested? He threw a no hitter and got it taken away from him because of a bad call. It sucks he couldn't celebrate it like every other no hitter that has been thrown, but he still deserves it.

 

People act like this was a Buckner ball. This was a slow roller that the pitcher couldn't pick up due to the spin on the ball. These things are called hits all the time. Changing the ruling or calling it an error to begin with because of some unwritten rule about only calling things hits on no doubters is dumb. Want the no hitter? Make the play. Just like everyone who complains about umpiring, don't leave it up to them. You want the accomplishment, overcome. This especially points out how dumb the ruling is, that it WAS THE FREAKIN PITCHER that "made the error" they're trying to charge here.

 

I understand they are charging the pitcher for the error, but it doesn't matter who makes the error (even though I don't agree with it) it still shouldn't be a hit. *IF* Sabathia comes up cleanly with the ball the runner is out... he did NOT come up cleanly with it which should be an error and not a hit.

 

And as I said, there are literally hundreds of plays per season where *IF* a player came up with the ball cleanly, the runner is out, yet those plays are ruled hits. It's how things are scored these days. If you have to move out of your position to make a play and not picking it cleanly on the first try gives the guy first, it's almost always ruled a hit.

[big_shooter17]

Don't really know why people don't think that call should be protested? He threw a no hitter and got it taken away from him because of a bad call. It sucks he couldn't celebrate it like every other no hitter that has been thrown, but he still deserves it.

 

People act like this was a Buckner ball. This was a slow roller that the pitcher couldn't pick up due to the spin on the ball. These things are called hits all the time. Changing the ruling or calling it an error to begin with because of some unwritten rule about only calling things hits on no doubters is dumb. Want the no hitter? Make the play. Just like everyone who complains about umpiring, don't leave it up to them. You want the accomplishment, overcome. This especially points out how dumb the ruling is, that it WAS THE FREAKIN PITCHER that "made the error" they're trying to charge here.

 

I understand they are charging the pitcher for the error, but it doesn't matter who makes the error (even though I don't agree with it) it still shouldn't be a hit. *IF* Sabathia comes up cleanly with the ball the runner is out... he did NOT come up cleanly with it which should be an error and not a hit.

 

I think that it is totally realistic to believe that if someone like Hardy makes an iffy play like this, the odds of it being overturned increase 10 fold. Since it was the pitcher himself, it hurts his odds whether or not it matters. The truth is, though, this is a difficult call because this kind of hit has to be a hit because the pitcher has to deal with a ball that is difficult to pick up. I think that it could go either way, but between the fact that it was the pitcher and how Yost slammed the scorer and threw such a big hissy fit, the league office isn't likely to overturn it.

[JimSorgi]

Jenksfan5 is right, I really wish Lou would abuse Harden's arm.

[Jon]

I'd be actively rooting AGAINST any Cubs pitcher having a no hitter through 7 in a blowout if that situation were to come up the remainder of the year.

[Soul]

I'd be actively rooting AGAINST any Cubs pitcher having a no hitter through 7 in a blowout if that situation were to come up the remainder of the year.

 

What do you think Lou would do if it was Harden? That would be an interesting decision.

[imb]

I'd be actively rooting AGAINST any Cubs pitcher having a no hitter through 7 in a blowout if that situation were to come up the remainder of the year.

 

What do you think Lou would do if it was Harden? That would be an interesting decision.

 

he would pull him in a heartbeat

[RedFlash]

Personally I think this is sour grapes on Ned Yost and the Brewers org. The Brewers org has seen 3 no-hitters either thrown for or against them, since the Brewers came into existance. The last no-hitter thrown for the Brewers was in 1987. So I will repeat it, Ned Yost and the Brewers are protesting it, not for CC, but because they want a no-hitter accredited to the franchise, and wipe the ugly taste out of the mouths from when Justin Verlander owned the Brewers.

 

This has to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.

 

Yeah, I'm sure Ned Yost was thinking about the history of the Brewers organization during today's game. That makes sense.

 

Well, it made sense with a couple of beer in me. But nonetheless, what has Ned Yost that ever made sense? I was only trying to use Ned Yost logic.