8/19 DBR (Cueto) @ Super Cubs (Harden) 7:05p CDT, CSN TV

[sweetpeteman]

`

BOOO Off Days

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hooray Beer!

I loled.

 

 

This RS commercial seems appropriate:

[jersey cubs fan]

I really hope that we can see an efficient outing from Harden today. It's disturbing to see he hasn't made it 6 innings in 4 of his 6 starts, and the 2 starts that he did go 7 innings, he threw 112 and 105 pitches.

 

How is that disturbing?

 

We know he's awesome but an extreme health risk. So, they can't extend him. 5 fantastic innings at a time shouldn't be the least bit disturbing to anybody.

[killthegoat06]

In the three games I've gone to this year, I've seen Lilly, Marshall, and Marquis. When I heard that Marquis was going to start this game, I was pissed. Now, with the rainout, I get to see Harden. THANK YOU RAIN!

[UMFan83]

I really hope that we can see an efficient outing from Harden today. It's disturbing to see he hasn't made it 6 innings in 4 of his 6 starts, and the 2 starts that he did go 7 innings, he threw 112 and 105 pitches.

 

How is that disturbing?

 

We know he's awesome but an extreme health risk. So, they can't extend him. 5 fantastic innings at a time shouldn't be the least bit disturbing to anybody.

 

Well they could extend him to 7 innings if he didn't throw 90-100 pitches in 5 innings. I completely agree the Cubs are doing the right things with his pitch counts, its just that hes not a very efficient pitcher. Come October when we aren't scoring 8 runs against the likes of the Giants or Braves, its going to be tough to get from Harden's 5 innings to Marmol and Wood in the 8th and 9th.

[kjfoster 1553]

I really hope that we can see an efficient outing from Harden today. It's disturbing to see he hasn't made it 6 innings in 4 of his 6 starts, and the 2 starts that he did go 7 innings, he threw 112 and 105 pitches.

 

How is that disturbing?

 

We know he's awesome but an extreme health risk. So, they can't extend him. 5 fantastic innings at a time shouldn't be the least bit disturbing to anybody.

 

Well they could extend him to 7 innings if he didn't throw 90-100 pitches in 5 innings. I completely agree the Cubs are doing the right things with his pitch counts, its just that hes not a very efficient pitcher. Come October when we aren't scoring 8 runs against the likes of the Giants or Braves, its going to be tough to get from Harden's 5 innings to Marmol and Wood in the 8th and 9th.

 

That's pretty much the kind of pitcher he has been though. Strikes out a ton of guys in minimal work.

 

Extending him to 7 is pointless at this time in the season, but come October I could see it being an option.

[UMFan83]

I really hope that we can see an efficient outing from Harden today. It's disturbing to see he hasn't made it 6 innings in 4 of his 6 starts, and the 2 starts that he did go 7 innings, he threw 112 and 105 pitches.

 

How is that disturbing?

 

We know he's awesome but an extreme health risk. So, they can't extend him. 5 fantastic innings at a time shouldn't be the least bit disturbing to anybody.

 

Well they could extend him to 7 innings if he didn't throw 90-100 pitches in 5 innings. I completely agree the Cubs are doing the right things with his pitch counts, its just that hes not a very efficient pitcher. Come October when we aren't scoring 8 runs against the likes of the Giants or Braves, its going to be tough to get from Harden's 5 innings to Marmol and Wood in the 8th and 9th.

 

That's pretty much the kind of pitcher he has been though. Strikes out a ton of guys in minimal work.

 

Extending him to 7 is pointless at this time in the season, but come October I could see it being an option.

 

So what your saying is that you don't want Harden to pitch more efficiently?

[anabiono]

i love harden...i really do...but the one drawback with him is that he is a strikeout pitcher who has a limited pitch count...

 

if harden can throw 7 innings...that is probably the most we will get out of him...

 

thank goodness our bullpen is pretty solid

 

With his stuff, do you think he can modify his game and pitch to contact more? That and health are the only things keeping him from being an ace.

 

Z did it, but he didn't do it overnight...i don't see harden drastically changing things up before the season...but of course he IS Dick Harden so anything is possible

[anabiono]

by the by...has harden ever pitched in the postseason?

 

because as much of a horse as C.C. is...the boy crapped the bed last year

 

if harden is solid...that will be a huge advantage...

[otis89]

by the by...has harden ever pitched in the postseason?

 

because as much of a horse as C.C. is...the boy crapped the bed last year

 

if harden is solid...that will be a huge advantage...

 

Yes.

 

In the 2003 ALDS, he was 1-1 with a 13.50 ERA and a 3.64 WHIP in only 1.1 IP.

In the 2006 ALCS, he was 0-1 with a 4.76 ERA and a 1.92 WHIP in 5.2 IP.

 

Small sample size, but there you go.

[UMFan83]

by the by...has harden ever pitched in the postseason?

 

because as much of a horse as C.C. is...the boy crapped the bed last year

 

if harden is solid...that will be a huge advantage...

 

He pitched out of the pen twice in the 2003 ALDS giving up 2 runs in 1.1 IP

He started Game 3 of the 2006 ALCS pitching 5.2 IP 3 ER 5 H 5 BB 4 K and took the loss

[kjfoster 1553]

I really hope that we can see an efficient outing from Harden today. It's disturbing to see he hasn't made it 6 innings in 4 of his 6 starts, and the 2 starts that he did go 7 innings, he threw 112 and 105 pitches.

 

How is that disturbing?

 

We know he's awesome but an extreme health risk. So, they can't extend him. 5 fantastic innings at a time shouldn't be the least bit disturbing to anybody.

 

Well they could extend him to 7 innings if he didn't throw 90-100 pitches in 5 innings. I completely agree the Cubs are doing the right things with his pitch counts, its just that hes not a very efficient pitcher. Come October when we aren't scoring 8 runs against the likes of the Giants or Braves, its going to be tough to get from Harden's 5 innings to Marmol and Wood in the 8th and 9th.

 

That's pretty much the kind of pitcher he has been though. Strikes out a ton of guys in minimal work.

 

Extending him to 7 is pointless at this time in the season, but come October I could see it being an option.

 

So what your saying is that you don't want Harden to pitch more efficiently?

 

What I am saying is he isn't going to

[UMFan83]

I really hope that we can see an efficient outing from Harden today. It's disturbing to see he hasn't made it 6 innings in 4 of his 6 starts, and the 2 starts that he did go 7 innings, he threw 112 and 105 pitches.

 

How is that disturbing?

 

We know he's awesome but an extreme health risk. So, they can't extend him. 5 fantastic innings at a time shouldn't be the least bit disturbing to anybody.

 

Well they could extend him to 7 innings if he didn't throw 90-100 pitches in 5 innings. I completely agree the Cubs are doing the right things with his pitch counts, its just that hes not a very efficient pitcher. Come October when we aren't scoring 8 runs against the likes of the Giants or Braves, its going to be tough to get from Harden's 5 innings to Marmol and Wood in the 8th and 9th.

 

That's pretty much the kind of pitcher he has been though. Strikes out a ton of guys in minimal work.

 

Extending him to 7 is pointless at this time in the season, but come October I could see it being an option.

 

So what your saying is that you don't want Harden to pitch more efficiently?

 

What I am saying is he isn't going to

 

He'd better at some point in his career. I don't want to resign a 5 inning ace to a long term deal.

[anabiono]

by the by...has harden ever pitched in the postseason?

 

because as much of a horse as C.C. is...the boy crapped the bed last year

 

if harden is solid...that will be a huge advantage...

 

He pitched out of the pen twice in the 2003 ALDS giving up 2 runs in 1.1 IP

He started Game 3 of the 2006 ALCS pitching 5.2 IP 3 ER 5 H 5 BB 4 K and took the loss

 

those are not encouraging numbers

 

crap

[Drew Doughty]

by the by...has harden ever pitched in the postseason?

 

because as much of a horse as C.C. is...the boy crapped the bed last year

 

if harden is solid...that will be a huge advantage...

 

He pitched out of the pen twice in the 2003 ALDS giving up 2 runs in 1.1 IP

He started Game 3 of the 2006 ALCS pitching 5.2 IP 3 ER 5 H 5 BB 4 K and took the loss

 

those are not encouraging numbers

 

crap

 

it was his rookie year and the second year was his fourth start after coming back from an injury that sidelined him for 3 1/2 months.

[SouthSideRyan]

I really hope that we can see an efficient outing from Harden today. It's disturbing to see he hasn't made it 6 innings in 4 of his 6 starts, and the 2 starts that he did go 7 innings, he threw 112 and 105 pitches.

 

How is that disturbing?

 

We know he's awesome but an extreme health risk. So, they can't extend him. 5 fantastic innings at a time shouldn't be the least bit disturbing to anybody.

 

Well they could extend him to 7 innings if he didn't throw 90-100 pitches in 5 innings. I completely agree the Cubs are doing the right things with his pitch counts, its just that hes not a very efficient pitcher. Come October when we aren't scoring 8 runs against the likes of the Giants or Braves, its going to be tough to get from Harden's 5 innings to Marmol and Wood in the 8th and 9th.

 

That's pretty much the kind of pitcher he has been though. Strikes out a ton of guys in minimal work.

 

Extending him to 7 is pointless at this time in the season, but come October I could see it being an option.

 

So what your saying is that you don't want Harden to pitch more efficiently?

 

What I am saying is he isn't going to

 

He'd better at some point in his career. I don't want to resign a 5 inning ace to a long term deal.

 

Except he's averaging ~6.

[jersey cubs fan]

I really hope that we can see an efficient outing from Harden today. It's disturbing to see he hasn't made it 6 innings in 4 of his 6 starts, and the 2 starts that he did go 7 innings, he threw 112 and 105 pitches.

 

How is that disturbing?

 

We know he's awesome but an extreme health risk. So, they can't extend him. 5 fantastic innings at a time shouldn't be the least bit disturbing to anybody.

 

Well they could extend him to 7 innings if he didn't throw 90-100 pitches in 5 innings. I completely agree the Cubs are doing the right things with his pitch counts, its just that hes not a very efficient pitcher. Come October when we aren't scoring 8 runs against the likes of the Giants or Braves, its going to be tough to get from Harden's 5 innings to Marmol and Wood in the 8th and 9th.

 

Yeah? And? They could extend everybody to complete games if they didn't get to 100+ in the 6th. So what? What's the disturbing part?

 

Harden has an exception arm that throws a baseball which is very difficult for major league hitters to hit. He also gets hurt easily and can't throw a lot of pitches. We all knew this the day the trade was made, where did it become disturbing?

[jersey cubs fan]

So what your saying is that you don't want Harden to pitch more efficiently?

 

What I am saying is he isn't going to

 

He'd better at some point in his career. I don't want to resign a 5 inning ace to a long term deal.

 

What the heck do you want him to do? Throw more hittable pitches? That's going to make him worse. He's had one bad game, as far as walks are concerned, as a Cub. He throws unhittable stuff. That's how he has success. He averages a half an inning less per game than Dempster or Zambrano. Considering those guys don't have the limitations that Harden has, I don't see where the issue is. He's on the same pace as Lilly as far as pitches and innings per start - 97 and 5.9.

[UMFan83]

So what your saying is that you don't want Harden to pitch more efficiently?

 

What I am saying is he isn't going to

 

He'd better at some point in his career. I don't want to resign a 5 inning ace to a long term deal.

 

What the heck do you want him to do? Throw more hittable pitches? That's going to make him worse. He's had one bad game, as far as walks are concerned, as a Cub. He throws unhittable stuff. That's how he has success. He averages a half an inning less per game than Dempster or Zambrano. Considering those guys don't have the limitations that Harden has, I don't see where the issue is. He's on the same pace as Lilly as far as pitches and innings per start - 97 and 5.9.

 

I want to see if his stuff can translate into a pitcher that pitches to contact sometimes as opposed to missing bats. That is what would make him more efficient. One example is of course Zambrano. I am not a true expert of the game, so I don't know if this is feasible. I know Zambrano uses his sinker a lot to pitch to contact which is not something that Harden can do so I don't know, maybe its not possible.

 

Also a half inning per game over a season is a big difference. That's around 18 innings a season, which is 18 less innings for the bullpen to throw.

 

I have nothing against Harden. I am still really excited to have him, and think hes a great asset to the team. It's just when I see a pitcher with his stuff, but with injury limitations and the inability to pitch deep into games, I want to find out if there is a way to get him to pitch more efficiently so that he doesn't have to come out after 5-6 innings.

[kjfoster 1553]

I really hope that we can see an efficient outing from Harden today. It's disturbing to see he hasn't made it 6 innings in 4 of his 6 starts, and the 2 starts that he did go 7 innings, he threw 112 and 105 pitches.

 

How is that disturbing?

 

We know he's awesome but an extreme health risk. So, they can't extend him. 5 fantastic innings at a time shouldn't be the least bit disturbing to anybody.

 

Well they could extend him to 7 innings if he didn't throw 90-100 pitches in 5 innings. I completely agree the Cubs are doing the right things with his pitch counts, its just that hes not a very efficient pitcher. Come October when we aren't scoring 8 runs against the likes of the Giants or Braves, its going to be tough to get from Harden's 5 innings to Marmol and Wood in the 8th and 9th.

 

Yeah? And? They could extend everybody to complete games if they didn't get to 100+ in the 6th. So what? What's the disturbing part?

 

Harden has an exception arm that throws a baseball which is very difficult for major league hitters to hit. He also gets hurt easily and can't throw a lot of pitches. We all knew this the day the trade was made, where did it become disturbing?

 

I think what he was trying to say was IF he didn't throw 90-100 pitches in the first 5 or 6ish innings they could/should extend him.

 

I agree with UMFan that he might have to do something down the road about his pitch count and where it gets him in a game. Might have to change how he attacks certain hitters, go for less strikeouts, etc.

 

Sort of like Glavine has been doing as he has gotten older.

[David]

Harden is actually more of a strikeout pitcher now than he ever was before in his career.

 

I wonder if it's a coincidence that it has come at the same time as a new, more-limited (but different) repertoire that is supposed to put less of a strain on his arm.

 

He might actually be more durable now with the splitter out and the slider mostly out. It's sort of ironic that that's what might also be causing him to throw more pitches in fewer innings, though.

[kjfoster 1553]

He might actually be more durable now with the splitter out and the slider mostly out. It's sort of ironic that that's what might also be causing him to throw more pitches in fewer innings, though.

 

I like that logic. =D>

[David]

I'd also be interested in seeing what all of his DL trips were about, because I have heard that a few of them weren't pitching-arm related (i.e. shoulder/elbow type stuff).

 

Don't know where I can find that info without too much effort, though.

[E.J.]

I'll be there tomorrow, sitting 8 rows from the field between the cubs dugout and homeplate!! :yahoo:

[C.C.]

I'll be there tomorrow, sitting 8 rows from the field between the cubs dugout and homeplate!! :yahoo:

 

I'll have those same seats for Sunday...Although they 6 rows up.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I'll be there tomorrow, sitting 8 rows from the field between the cubs dugout and homeplate!! :yahoo:

:doublemiddlefinger: