Is Alfonso Soriano going to be a Hall of Famer?

[RedFlash]

How can we take the HOF serious if this guy is in the HOF---http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers/detail.jsp?playerId=118497---but not this guy---http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/rosepe01.shtml.

 

IDK where the MLB HOF is located, but the museum in Cooperstown is the "Hall of Really good players." I mean really, would you put Mazeroski in the same sentence as Hornsby, Sandberg and Morgan? Or Gary Carter with Berri/Campenella/Bench/Fisk? Or Don Sutton with Cy Young, Walter Johnson, Fergie Jenkins, Mordecai Brown, Steve Charlton, Sandy Koufax, etc, etc? Of course not.

 

Getting back on topic, Soriano and Ramirez are not likely to be HOFers regardless of how watered down the Hall has become.

[bukie]

Seriously? Rose? You went the Rose angle?

 

Santo was better than Rose.

[RedFlash]

Seriously? Rose? You went the Rose angle?

 

Santo was better than Rose.

 

True, but Rose has as much of a case to be in the HOF as Santo. Look I am on board with the "Get Santo in the Hall" bandwagon, but I also believe Rose should be in the Hall, too.

[jersey cubs fan]

Seriously? Rose? You went the Rose angle?

 

Santo was better than Rose.

 

True, but Rose has as much of a case to be in the HOF as Santo. Look I am on board with the "Get Santo in the Hall" bandwagon, but I also believe Rose should be in the Hall, too.

 

He also has as big a case as anybody ever in the game to never be allowed in the HOF.

[bukie]

Seriously? Rose? You went the Rose angle?

 

Santo was better than Rose.

 

True, but Rose has as much of a case to be in the HOF as Santo. Look I am on board with the "Get Santo in the Hall" bandwagon, but I also believe Rose should be in the Hall, too.

 

But Rose isn't held out of the HOF because of his statistics, so it's a poor argument. Especially when you have a guy with perfectly legitimate numbers that is held out of the HOF for no reason at all.

 

Rose has as much of a case as anyone to NOT be in the HOF.

[TruffleShuffle]

Seriously? Rose? You went the Rose angle?

 

Santo was better than Rose.

 

True, but Rose has as much of a case to be in the HOF as Santo. Look I am on board with the "Get Santo in the Hall" bandwagon, but I also believe Rose should be in the Hall, too.

 

But Rose isn't held out of the HOF because of his statistics, so it's a poor argument. Especially when you have a guy with perfectly legitimate numbers that is held out of the HOF for no reason at all.

 

Rose has as much of a case as anyone to NOT be in the HOF.

 

rose bet on baseball. there are signs in every major league locker room in the game that say (in effect) DON'T BET ON BASEBALL. he did.

 

i'm not saying that rose deserves to be in or doesn't deserve to be in, but everyone in the game knows that MLB is very, very serious about its players not gambling on games. rose chose to ignore that.

[RedFlash]

Seriously? Rose? You went the Rose angle?

 

Santo was better than Rose.

 

True, but Rose has as much of a case to be in the HOF as Santo. Look I am on board with the "Get Santo in the Hall" bandwagon, but I also believe Rose should be in the Hall, too.

 

But Rose isn't held out of the HOF because of his statistics, so it's a poor argument. Especially when you have a guy with perfectly legitimate numbers that is held out of the HOF for no reason at all.

 

Rose has as much of a case as anyone to NOT be in the HOF.

 

rose bet on baseball. there are signs in every major league locker room in the game that say (in effect) DON'T BET ON BASEBALL. he did.

 

i'm not saying that rose deserves to be in or doesn't deserve to be in, but everyone in the game knows that MLB is very, very serious about its players not gambling on games. rose chose to ignore that.

 

I can't prove it or anything, but I doubt Rose was the only guy betting on baseball. He's the only one who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

 

I would reinstate him for the sole purpose of electing him into the Hall of Fame.

[CubbieBum]

Seriously? Rose? You went the Rose angle?

 

Santo was better than Rose.

 

True, but Rose has as much of a case to be in the HOF as Santo. Look I am on board with the "Get Santo in the Hall" bandwagon, but I also believe Rose should be in the Hall, too.

 

But Rose isn't held out of the HOF because of his statistics, so it's a poor argument. Especially when you have a guy with perfectly legitimate numbers that is held out of the HOF for no reason at all.

 

Rose has as much of a case as anyone to NOT be in the HOF.

 

rose bet on baseball. there are signs in every major league locker room in the game that say (in effect) DON'T BET ON BASEBALL. he did.

 

 

I'm one for Rose being in the Hall as a player, he bet as a manager, but the well he wasn't the only one doing it argument has never made any sense to me whatsoever in any circumstance. So what! He still broke the rule. Just because others may have as well doesn't make it right.

i'm not saying that rose deserves to be in or doesn't deserve to be in, but everyone in the game knows that MLB is very, very serious about its players not gambling on games. rose chose to ignore that.

 

I can't prove it or anything, but I doubt Rose was the only guy betting on baseball. He's the only one who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

 

I would reinstate him for the sole purpose of electing him into the Hall of Fame.

[Jehrico]

Seriously? Rose? You went the Rose angle?

 

Santo was better than Rose.

 

True, but Rose has as much of a case to be in the HOF as Santo. Look I am on board with the "Get Santo in the Hall" bandwagon, but I also believe Rose should be in the Hall, too.

 

But Rose isn't held out of the HOF because of his statistics, so it's a poor argument. Especially when you have a guy with perfectly legitimate numbers that is held out of the HOF for no reason at all.

 

Rose has as much of a case as anyone to NOT be in the HOF.

 

rose bet on baseball. there are signs in every major league locker room in the game that say (in effect) DON'T BET ON BASEBALL. he did.

 

i'm not saying that rose deserves to be in or doesn't deserve to be in, but everyone in the game knows that MLB is very, very serious about its players not gambling on games. rose chose to ignore that.

 

I can't prove it or anything, but I doubt Rose was the only guy betting on baseball. He's the only one who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

 

I would reinstate him for the sole purpose of electing him into the Hall of Fame.

That's exactly why he shouldn't be reinstated. Anyone who potentially compromises the integrity of the game should be banned for life. It's too damaging to the sport, you have to send a message to everyone else what happens if you mess with that. Rose is currently serving that purpose.

[OleMissCub]

That's exactly why he shouldn't be reinstated. Anyone who potentially compromises the integrity of the game should be banned for life. It's too damaging to the sport, you have to send a message to everyone else what happens if you mess with that. Rose is currently serving that purpose.

 

I feel that all the juicers compromised the integrity of the game as well. Do you?

[Jehrico]

That's exactly why he shouldn't be reinstated. Anyone who potentially compromises the integrity of the game should be banned for life. It's too damaging to the sport, you have to send a message to everyone else what happens if you mess with that. Rose is currently serving that purpose.

 

I feel that all the juicers compromised the integrity of the game as well. Do you?

Yes, but the problem I have is where the line lies between "juice" and legal supplements. McGuire was caught with Andro, which was considered a legal supplement back then (I think he was using more than that, but that is what he was caught with). Depending on how you define "juice," (or I prefer performance enhancing drugs), it obviously would include anabolic steroids and hgh, but may or may not include everything ranging from ephedra, andro, and even Red Bull. This argument affected Eyre in the first half of last year when they wouldn't let him take his ADD meds, then decided it was okay. Where exactly to draw the line is a very tough question.

[chuckywang]

How can we take the HOF serious if this guy is in the HOF---http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers/detail.jsp?playerId=118497---but not this guy---http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/rosepe01.shtml.

 

IDK where the MLB HOF is located, but the museum in Cooperstown is the "Hall of Really good players." I mean really, would you put Mazeroski in the same sentence as Hornsby, Sandberg and Morgan? Or Gary Carter with Berri/Campenella/Bench/Fisk? Or Don Sutton with Cy Young, Walter Johnson, Fergie Jenkins, Mordecai Brown, Steve Charlton, Sandy Koufax, etc, etc? Of course not.

 

Getting back on topic, Soriano and Ramirez are not likely to be HOFers regardless of how watered down the Hall has become.

 

Sandy Koufax is a gray area. He's basically in the HOF for FOUR really really good seasons.

[Warpticon]

It's not the Hall of Very Good.

 

It's not the hall of Excellent, either. or the Hall of Tremendous.

 

I hate that phrase, and wish it would die.

[OleMissCub]

Sandy Koufax is a gray area. He's basically in the HOF for FOUR really really good seasons.

 

Sandy is an anomaly, much like Dizzy Dean. Normally, to be a HOF player, one needs longevity (to add the counting stats) and they need a peak (to show their dominance). Sandy and Dizzy obviously didn't have longevity at all, but their peaks were so dominant that it's hard to ignore them. During a three year span, Dizzy won an MVP and was second in MVP voting twice (this was before the Cy Young award). Koufax pulled off that exact same feat in a four year span.

[OleMissCub]

Getting back on topic, Soriano and Ramirez are not likely to be HOFers regardless of how watered down the Hall has become.

 

Ramirez has a better shot than you think if he keeps putting up similar numbers for another 6 or 7 years like Chipper has done.

[rocket]

Rose is more famous for not being in the Hall than he would be if he were in it. I kind of hope now he gets in just so he'll go away.

[bukie]

I'd almost prefer a completely separate wing of "Players good enough statistically to be in the hall, but who did something really stupid to compromise the integrity of the game." Then put guys like Jackson, Rose, and the HGH squad in there so they can be remembered for both the good and the bad.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'd almost prefer a completely separate wing of "Players good enough statistically to be in the hall, but who did something really stupid to compromise the integrity of the game." Then put guys like Jackson, Rose, and the HGH squad in there so they can be remembered for both the good and the bad.

 

You're gonna have a lot more guys there than in the HOF.

[OleMissCub]

I know gambling is the cardinal sin in baseball, but I just think there's a MASSIVE difference in what Rose did and what the Black Sox did. You SHOULD get the death sentence in baseball if you throw a ballgame, but not for betting on other teams and betting on your own team to win. I realize that as a manager, you can do things that could hurt your team if you have money invested, etc., but Rose shouldn't be lumped in with the Black Sox.

[jersey cubs fan]

I know gambling is the cardinal sin in baseball, but I just think there's a MASSIVE difference in what Rose did and what the Black Sox did. You SHOULD get the death sentence in baseball if you throw a ballgame, but not for betting on other teams and betting on your own team to win. I realize that as a manager, you can do things that could hurt your team if you have money invested, etc., but Rose shouldn't be lumped in with the Black Sox.

 

Booooooo!!!

 

Sorry, but this is nonsense. If anything, I can excuse the Black Sox because they were all just regular joes trying to make it in the world with the man screwing them over and over. Pete was set for life and had it all, but he blatantly ignored a very big rule and repeatedly, over and over, violated the cardinal sin.

[OleMissCub]

I know gambling is the cardinal sin in baseball, but I just think there's a MASSIVE difference in what Rose did and what the Black Sox did. You SHOULD get the death sentence in baseball if you throw a ballgame, but not for betting on other teams and betting on your own team to win. I realize that as a manager, you can do things that could hurt your team if you have money invested, etc., but Rose shouldn't be lumped in with the Black Sox.

 

Booooooo!!!

 

Sorry, but this is nonsense. If anything, I can excuse the Black Sox because they were all just regular joes trying to make it in the world with the man screwing them over and over. Pete was set for life and had it all, but he blatantly ignored a very big rule and repeatedly, over and over, violated the cardinal sin.

 

Well I'm with you on the sympathy of it all. I definitely have more sympathy for the Black Sox than for Rose, but I'm just saying that a lifetime ban is a bit harsh. I think twenty years is enough. Rose has served his time so far as I'm concerned.

[jersey cubs fan]

I know gambling is the cardinal sin in baseball, but I just think there's a MASSIVE difference in what Rose did and what the Black Sox did. You SHOULD get the death sentence in baseball if you throw a ballgame, but not for betting on other teams and betting on your own team to win. I realize that as a manager, you can do things that could hurt your team if you have money invested, etc., but Rose shouldn't be lumped in with the Black Sox.

 

Booooooo!!!

 

Sorry, but this is nonsense. If anything, I can excuse the Black Sox because they were all just regular joes trying to make it in the world with the man screwing them over and over. Pete was set for life and had it all, but he blatantly ignored a very big rule and repeatedly, over and over, violated the cardinal sin.

 

Well I'm with you on the sympathy of it all. I definitely have more sympathy for the Black Sox than for Rose, but I'm just saying that a lifetime ban is a bit harsh. I think twenty years is enough. Rose has served his time so far as I'm concerned.

 

Well thankfully others don't agree with you.

[Jehrico]

I know gambling is the cardinal sin in baseball, but I just think there's a MASSIVE difference in what Rose did and what the Black Sox did. You SHOULD get the death sentence in baseball if you throw a ballgame, but not for betting on other teams and betting on your own team to win. I realize that as a manager, you can do things that could hurt your team if you have money invested, etc., but Rose shouldn't be lumped in with the Black Sox.

I think you're marginalizing what Rose did too much. You can't have players and managers associating with gamblers the way Rose did, no matter what he was betting on. Even if you're betting on a completely different sport, surely you can see the conflict of interest that arises when someone in a position similar to Rose finds himself in debt by 6 figures or more to these kind of people. Even if he never bet on baseball, that doesn't mean he couldn't hold a reliever in a little too long to make his bookies happy and forgive debt accumulated from betting on other sports.

 

MLB really has no choice but to hold the line on this issue. It can't be treated as a situation where there is a gray area or there are exceptions based on circumstances.

[OleMissCub]

Interesting that the term "lifetime ban" is a bit of a misnomer because these bans go beyond lifetime, otherwise Shoeless Joe would be in the Hall.

[Jehrico]

Interesting that the term "lifetime ban" is a bit of a misnomer because these bans go beyond lifetime, otherwise Shoeless Joe would be in the Hall.

And should be, since he's basically been cleared of any wrongdoing.