The Doc

[Derwood]

I know I say this every trade thread, but it will not take 5-7 players to get anyone

 

I beg to differ. Roy is definately worth 5-7 players HANDS DOWN.

 

is Roy better than Rich Harden, who only cost 4 players (and Chad Gaudin came in the same deal?) Think about it dude

[Bobson Dugnutt]

I know I say this every trade thread, but it will not take 5-7 players to get anyone

 

Dan Haren cost 6 players...

 

Yeah, but he's also 4 years younger and making about half as much as Halladay over the same time span.

[XZero771679666304]

I know I say this every trade thread, but it will not take 5-7 players to get anyone

 

 

I don't know. It wouldn't be unprecedented, and what the Cubs lack in quality prospects, they'd have to make up in quantity. Especially since Toronto doesn't have a pressing need or incentive to trade Roy, which really bolsters their bargaining position.

 

Realistically, if I am Ricciardi and the Cubs approach me about Halladay, the first name I ask for in return is Soto, and then I move on to the prospects. If not Soto, then Castillo and an increased number of top prospects.

 

I can't see Halladay being moved anywhere without a very good, young ML player or multiple ML ready prospects going back in return. He's signed for multiple years at below market value.

 

Honestly, I don't know why J.P. would deal him, unless he was just blown away by an offer.

[Jehrico]

I know I say this every trade thread, but it will not take 5-7 players to get anyone

 

I beg to differ. Roy is definately worth 5-7 players HANDS DOWN.

Offering 5-7 players actually probably hurts our chances of making such a deal, as it becomes much harder to manage their 40 or 25 man rosters, depending on who is offered. Two stud prospects are better than any 5-man package we could offer in that regard.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I know I say this every trade thread, but it will not take 5-7 players to get anyone

 

I beg to differ. Roy is definately worth 5-7 players HANDS DOWN.

 

is Roy better than Rich Harden, who only cost 4 players (and Chad Gaudin came in the same deal?) Think about it dude

 

Yes, Roy Halladay is much better than Rich Harden, he throws complete games like their going out of style.

[Banedon]

Under contract through 2010...

 

08:$10M, 09:$14.25M, 10:$15.75M

 

That'd be over $30 mil we'd be taking on... which I just can't see Hendry doing with the ownership situation in flux. We could get the Blue Jays to pick up some of the tab, but it'd cost us even more than it already would in talent.

 

Vitters, Ceda, Pie, Hill, Cedeno, and maybe even some guy like Rundle for Halladay + 7 mil?

 

Part of the reason for including Marquis in the deal is salary. He's owned 7 million next season still, and what...3.5 million still this season?

Ted Lilly would be a much more logical choice for a salary-balancer. He's got 2/$24M left after this season, so the margin between that and what Halladay's owed is only around $6M total.

 

Not sure if Lilly left Toronto on good terms or not.

 

Anyway, start with Lilly and Cedeno for Halladay and Eckstein, and then start piling on the young guys.

 

I don't think Toronto will want Lilly after he got into a screaming match with the manager...

[Jehrico]

I know I say this every trade thread, but it will not take 5-7 players to get anyone

 

I beg to differ. Roy is definately worth 5-7 players HANDS DOWN.

 

is Roy better than Rich Harden, who only cost 4 players (and Chad Gaudin came in the same deal?) Think about it dude

 

Yes, Roy Halladay is much better than Rich Harden, he throws complete games like their going out of style.

That, and he's much more likely to give you 30+ starts a year, though he's no sure bet either.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I don't think Toronto will want Lilly after he got into a screaming match with the manager...

 

Gibbons isn't the manager anymore.

[XZero771679666304]

I know I say this every trade thread, but it will not take 5-7 players to get anyone

 

I beg to differ. Roy is definately worth 5-7 players HANDS DOWN.

 

is Roy better than Rich Harden, who only cost 4 players (and Chad Gaudin came in the same deal?) Think about it dude

 

Yes, Roy Halladay is much better than Rich Harden, he throws complete games like their going out of style.

 

 

I'm not sure his ability to dominate is higher, but the man devours innings while doing it. He's certainly more valuable than Rich Harden because of efficiency and durability. That's not even mentioning he's signed for two more years.

[davearm2]

Under contract through 2010...

 

08:$10M, 09:$14.25M, 10:$15.75M

 

That'd be over $30 mil we'd be taking on... which I just can't see Hendry doing with the ownership situation in flux. We could get the Blue Jays to pick up some of the tab, but it'd cost us even more than it already would in talent.

 

Vitters, Ceda, Pie, Hill, Cedeno, and maybe even some guy like Rundle for Halladay + 7 mil?

 

Part of the reason for including Marquis in the deal is salary. He's owned 7 million next season still, and what...3.5 million still this season?

Ted Lilly would be a much more logical choice for a salary-balancer. He's got 2/$24M left after this season, so the margin between that and what Halladay's owed is only around $6M total.

 

Not sure if Lilly left Toronto on good terms or not.

 

Anyway, start with Lilly and Cedeno for Halladay and Eckstein, and then start piling on the young guys.

 

I don't think Toronto will want Lilly after he got into a screaming match with the manager...

Of course on the other hand, that manager seemed to have problems getting along with several guys, and besides, he's gone now.

 

I'm not sure we can say one way or another if that bridge is burned.

[Banedon]

I don't think Toronto will want Lilly after he got into a screaming match with the manager...

 

Gibbons isn't the manager anymore.

 

True...but they didn't exactly back Lilly up. I dunno...Lilly seems the type to me to hold a grudge. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

In any case...I'd rather trade Marquis for obvious reasons. :P

[David]

Under contract through 2010...

 

08:$10M, 09:$14.25M, 10:$15.75M

 

That'd be over $30 mil we'd be taking on... which I just can't see Hendry doing with the ownership situation in flux. We could get the Blue Jays to pick up some of the tab, but it'd cost us even more than it already would in talent.

 

Vitters, Ceda, Pie, Hill, Cedeno, and maybe even some guy like Rundle for Halladay + 7 mil?

 

Wellington Castillo would HAVE to be in this deal imo. giving a prospect package of- Vitters, Ceda, Castillo, M. Smith/Rundle/Colvin, combined with a MLB ready package of- Marquis, Pie, Hill, Cedeno, Marshall would maybe get the convo. started....

 

So, you're saying a 9 player offer would be a starting point......................

[wilk]

Um, I think he's saying we couldn't possibly make a practical offer for Halladay. None of the 4-9 player packages suggested in the thread would work whatsoever. Lilly or Marquis? Give me a break. We could maybe, possibly, move Marquis in a deal for Burnett but certainly not Halladay...

[fromthestretch]

Under contract through 2010...

 

08:$10M, 09:$14.25M, 10:$15.75M

 

That'd be over $30 mil we'd be taking on... which I just can't see Hendry doing with the ownership situation in flux. We could get the Blue Jays to pick up some of the tab, but it'd cost us even more than it already would in talent.

 

Vitters, Ceda, Pie, Hill, Cedeno, and maybe even some guy like Rundle for Halladay + 7 mil?

 

Part of the reason for including Marquis in the deal is salary. He's owned 7 million next season still, and what...3.5 million still this season?

Ted Lilly would be a much more logical choice for a salary-balancer. He's got 2/$24M left after this season, so the margin between that and what Halladay's owed is only around $6M total.

 

Not sure if Lilly left Toronto on good terms or not.

 

Anyway, start with Lilly and Cedeno for Halladay and Eckstein, and then start piling on the young guys.

 

I don't think Toronto will want Lilly after he got into a screaming match with the manager...

 

Wasn't it more than a screaming match? If I remember correctly, one of them came out of it a little banged up.

[CuseCubFan69]

I know I say this every trade thread, but it will not take 5-7 players to get anyone

 

I beg to differ. Roy is definately worth 5-7 players HANDS DOWN.

 

is Roy better than Rich Harden, who only cost 4 players (and Chad Gaudin came in the same deal?) Think about it dude

 

Yes, Roy Halladay is much better than Rich Harden, he throws complete games like their going out of style.

 

They are out of style.

 

If Soriano is ok I wouldn't mind a shot at Roy but it's going to take a Kings ransome. If he's out there, I see the Angels being able to crush the Cubs in prospects.

[XZero771679666304]

I would say a realistic offer would be:

 

Cedeno, Castillo, Vitters, Ceda, Marshall and maybe Veal. Being that the only incentive to trade Roy at this point would be salary relief, I don't see them taking Marquis. But again, I would ask for Soto if I were Ricciardi.

 

 

It's a pipe dream anyway.

 

As for other NL central teams, I don't think the Cards have enough. Rasmus would be a good start, but they really don't have much else to offer.

 

Milwaukee would likely have to surrender Hardy and Gamel, plus others. I imagine they'd want Gallardo, or Parra at the very least. They could get it done, and would have a replacement ace for the next couple years as well as a great shot at a WS title this year, but it would leave their system in a shambles.

 

Then again, all the picks they'll get when Sheets and CC leave would mitigate the loss.

[David]

Um, I think he's saying we couldn't possibly make a practical offer for Halladay. None of the 4-9 player packages suggested in the thread would work whatsoever. Lilly or Marquis? Give me a break. We could maybe, possibly, move Marquis in a deal for Burnett but certainly not Halladay...

 

That's just not true.

 

I don't understand why people always think teams are going to get these ridiculous packages when they deal stars at the deadline when they usually don't.

 

They'd probably get a package of one or two A level prospects and a throw-in B or C prospect or two.

[wilk]

Um, I think he's saying we couldn't possibly make a practical offer for Halladay. None of the 4-9 player packages suggested in the thread would work whatsoever. Lilly or Marquis? Give me a break. We could maybe, possibly, move Marquis in a deal for Burnett but certainly not Halladay...

 

That's just not true.

 

I don't understand why people always think teams are going to get these ridiculous packages when they deal stars at the deadline when they usually don't.

 

They'd probably get a package of one or two A level prospects and a throw-in B or C prospect or two.

 

 

It's absolutely true. I don't understand why people always think any player they want is practical to trade for if there's a rumor they're being shopped at all. To put it simply: teams with better prospects than us want him too. Toronto would rather have 2 great prospects than 5 so-so ones. Who are our "A level prospects?" Yeah. And our best trade prospect is someone who technically can't be traded -- but now the primary piece is going to be a PTBNL? And he'll just sit for 2-3 weeks, right? The truth is, we have no chance of Halladay unless we're giving them everyone and then at that point, they'd rather have the quality from others that is DEFINITELY available if they trade Roy...

[David]

Um, I think he's saying we couldn't possibly make a practical offer for Halladay. None of the 4-9 player packages suggested in the thread would work whatsoever. Lilly or Marquis? Give me a break. We could maybe, possibly, move Marquis in a deal for Burnett but certainly not Halladay...

 

That's just not true.

 

I don't understand why people always think teams are going to get these ridiculous packages when they deal stars at the deadline when they usually don't.

 

They'd probably get a package of one or two A level prospects and a throw-in B or C prospect or two.

 

 

It's absolutely true. I don't understand why people always think any player they want is practical to trade for if there's a rumor they're being shopped at all. To put it simply: teams with better prospects than us want him too. Toronto would rather have 2 great prospects than 5 so-so ones. Who are our "A level prospects?" Yeah. And our best trade prospect is someone who technically can't be traded -- but now the primary piece is going to be a PTBNL? And he'll just sit for 2-3 weeks, right? The truth is, we have no chance of Halladay unless we're giving them everyone and then at that point, they'd rather have the quality from others that is DEFINITELY available if they trade Roy...

 

I never said anything about the Cubs.

 

FWIW, I would think that Shark, Pie, Hill (assuming another start or two showing he really has found the plate), and Vitters as a PTBNL would probably work, not that I'd do it. There isn't nearly enough of a need for starting pitching, even one as good as Roy, on this team to warrant giving up the only assets we would have left.

 

Vitters and Samardzija are starting to look like legitimate top prospects (not that I want to get too far ahead of myself on Jeff's AAA numbers).

[wilk]

I never said anything about the Cubs.

 

FWIW, I would think that Shark, Pie, Hill (assuming another start or two showing he really has found the plate), and Vitters as a PTBNL would probably work, not that I'd do it. There isn't nearly enough of a need for starting pitching, even one as good as Roy, on this team to warrant giving up the only assets we would have left.

 

Vitters and Samardzija are starting to look like legitimate top prospects (not that I want to get too far ahead of myself on Jeff's AAA numbers).

 

I was talking about the Cubs so what exactly is "just not true?" And Pie, Hill, Vitters, Samardzija is pretty much the "everybody" I mentioned. But, Samardzija has a full no-trade clause and the Cubs value him much higher than anyone else does right now. And for the best prospect to be a PTBNL for 2-3 weeks is still messy and frowned upon even if it's not the couple months that's been suggested in the past. Does he just sit until he moves? What do they name as an alternative otherwise? Even looking past all of this, they can get a much better and sure prospect elsewhere and so they'd do so.

[David]

 

I was talking about the Cubs so what exactly is "just not true?" And Pie, Hill, Vitters, Samardzija is pretty much the "everybody" I mentioned. But, Samardzija has a full no-trade clause and the Cubs value him much higher than anyone else does right now. And for the best prospect to be a PTBNL for 2-3 weeks is still messy and frowned upon even if it's not the couple months that's been suggested in the past. Does he just sit until he moves? What do they name as an alternative otherwise? Even looking past all of this, they can get a much better and sure prospect elsewhere and so they'd do so.

 

Forgive me on the "just not true" part. That's my bad. I was still thinking about the crazy 9 player package which was suggested as a starting point.

 

It wasn't really necessarily related to what you were saying (although I do think the Cubs COULD put up together a package to make such a deal, but I don't think they should).

 

All I'm saying is these crazy huge packages often brought up by fans hardly ever are within the realm of reality and that these players often don't fetch anywhere near what people expect.

 

Look at how many people (fans and "analysts" alike) were perplexed at what was given up for Harden, injury concerns and all. And on top of it, we got Gaudin, too.

[mdwilla]

Pie/Castilla/Marshall/Cedeno/Veal/Ceda

for the DOC and Eckstein.

[sneakypower]

I know I say this every trade thread, but it will not take 5-7 players to get anyone

 

I beg to differ. Roy is definately worth 5-7 players HANDS DOWN.

 

is Roy better than Rich Harden, who only cost 4 players (and Chad Gaudin came in the same deal?) Think about it dude

 

Yes, Roy Halladay is much better than Rich Harden, he throws complete games like their going out of style.

 

They are out of style.

 

If Soriano is ok I wouldn't mind a shot at Roy but it's going to take a Kings ransome. If he's out there, I see the Angels being able to crush the Cubs in prospects.

The Angels under no circumstance, ever deal their prospects.

 

Miggy Cabrera was available for a decent price and who did they end up haggling over? Adenhart?

 

I'm not worried about them whatsoever. But this trade is surely just a wet dream. But a real good one.

[sneakypower]

Pie/Castilla/Marshall/Cedeno/Veal/Ceda

for the DOC and Eckstein.

not to sound like an ass and maybe i'm misremembering, but who on Earth is Castilla?

[jersey cubs fan]

Pie/Castilla/Marshall/Cedeno/Veal/Ceda

for the DOC and Eckstein.

not to sound like an ass and maybe i'm misremembering, but who on Earth is Castilla?

 

I assume that's meant to be Welington Castillo.

Edited July 24, 2008 by jersey cubs fan