Fukudome: Time for some extended time off?

[17 Seconds]

First impressions can do wonders. Cubs fans hadn't really seen Kosuke play before this season, and then he comes and has this monster April so that's what people are going to remember him for. A lot of people can't get the impression of the April Kosuke out of their minds. If his April and May were reversed, I don't think the majority would be so content to give him a free pass.

[badnews]

fukudome looks horrible right now, and it is a bit worrisome. but i'm also confident that he also has another hot streak or 2 in him this season, and his numbers will even out.

 

But what does "his numbers will even out" mean?

 

Here's what bothers me - in 2007 Chicago Cub right fielders hit for a total .795 OPS. Let's say Fukudome finishes the season with a .780 OPS. People will regard that as an "upgrade" because they spin what Fukudome does in whatever positive light they can. I don't even think he's going to finish with a .780 OPS at this point. But it will turn out the Cubs spent $12 million a year to downgrade their offense in right field.

 

Jeromy Burnitz put up a .757 OPS for the Cubs in 2005 for $6 million, 3 years later you could see Fukudome finishing with a .770 OPS (a downgrade from 2007's .795 OPS) and people spinning it as some kind of victory.

[Sammy Sofa]

I wanna read the board badnews is ranting about, because it sounds crazy and awesome.

[badnews]

Personal attacks aren't necessary.

 

Simply go read the "They've figured out Kosuke" thread.

 

In it, basically everyone who has doubts about Fukudome is told "Don't worry, I'm sure he'll adjust" and ridiculed for their lack of faith. I'm still wondering how people are "sure" he'll adjust.

[imb]

THIS IS A NO SPIN ZONE, MOJO

[Amie]

I'm sure he'll make adjustments. My crazy Sox friends are all up with the "Alexei Ramirez is fantasic thing". for the money he's making, he'd best turn it around.

 

Everybody says they're "sure" Fukudome will get back on track, and I keep asking people how they can be "sure" outside of wishful thinking and nobody seems to have an answer.

 

In reality, the 2nd tier of Japanese hitters below Hideki Matsui and Ichiro are disappointing .750ish OPS blah players. Or Kaz Matsui, who is worse. Look up the Japanese numbers for Kaz Matsui, Akinori Iwamura, Kenji Johjima, and Kosuke Fukudome and you know what the difference is? The difference is the first three guys are paid like $5 million a year and Fukudome makes $12 million.

 

I mean, holy crap. If this were Ryan Theriot you guys would've all jumped off the bandwagon, but since this is Fukudome and he looked great for 3 weeks you're determined to ride this sinking ship all the way into the Mariana Trench.

 

You know what I'm learning? This board just can't be honest about Fukudome. All of you who say you're sure he'll go back to being a .800+ OPS guy seem like you're lying to yourself. I'm tired of this spin. If this were a less popular player the board would be allowed to get with reality.

 

 

 

There are far more difference in the 4 players above. Level of experience is one thing, 2 of them barely played in Japan at all. Only Fukudome and Matsui had a long history there, and real stats to compare to. Fukudome was much better at getting on base, year after year, then Matsui ever was. Matsui with more hits, but Fukudome with far more walks and more SO's. So the strike out is always going to be there to some extent for Fukudome. The Dome was always a defensive wiz too, where as Matsui was anything but.

 

One thing you have to keep in mind though, that in Japan the players have more time off, and the travel is much less. Small countries tend to lend for easier travel. That is likely a big difference, and hard for any player to get used too.

 

Fukudome is surely not going to be the player he was the first 2 months, but I think it's unfair

to say he won't do well. We really don't know.

 

One thing for sure though. As long as he is never rested, and gets switched around in the batting order everytime a change needs making, he will likely have problems. He's got a lot on his plate already, and Lou needs to leave him in one spot and let him play there.

 

He also needs to make sure he gets rest, even on the days he's been "off" he usually come in for defense, or an at bat. That's no day off.

[Vanilla Ice]

Personal attacks aren't necessary.

 

Simply go read the "They've figured out Kosuke" thread.

 

In it, basically everyone who has doubts about Fukudome is told "Don't worry, I'm sure he'll adjust" and ridiculed for their lack of faith. I'm still wondering how people are "sure" he'll adjust.

lol where was the personal attack

[cardinalmike]

Fukudome=one of the most overrated players in baseball. I dont know how the heck he got into the All Star Game. As bad as Uggla was, Fukudome had the worst at bat of the game with his swing around whirling dirvish move. It was embarassing. The Cubs have some great players......but he isnt one of them. I'll take the Ludwick, Ankiel, Shumaker combo over Fukudome, Edmonds and I guess Derosa??? Better defensively and puting up better numbers. Who woulda thunk.

[17 Seconds]

I'll take the Ludwick, Ankiel, Shumaker combo over Fukudome, Edmonds and I guess Derosa???

 

Remember that Soriano guy?

[cardinalmike]

Oh Yeah......how could I forget........Can he stay healthy?? I still like the Cards outfield even with Alf instead of Derosa.

[Jon]

Personal attacks aren't necessary.

 

Simply go read the "They've figured out Kosuke" thread.

 

In it, basically everyone who has doubts about Fukudome is told "Don't worry, I'm sure he'll adjust" and ridiculed for their lack of faith. I'm still wondering how people are "sure" he'll adjust.

There is a difference between being bad over a period of time and being bad for a period of time. You claimed that he's been in a decline since the start of the season. I already showed you that it wasn't true in the last thread. I'm not sure that promoting bizarre conspiracy theories is an effective rebuttal.

[Sammy Sofa]

Personal attacks aren't necessary.

 

Simply go read the "They've figured out Kosuke" thread.

 

In it, basically everyone who has doubts about Fukudome is told "Don't worry, I'm sure he'll adjust" and ridiculed for their lack of faith. I'm still wondering how people are "sure" he'll adjust.

lol where was the personal attack

 

He's been making dramatic and largely false generalizations about the rest of the board, so that just fit right in.

[biittner77]

Fukudome's struggles: Cause for concern: yes. Cause for panic: no.

[biittner77]

Fukudome=one of the most overrated players in baseball. I dont know how the heck he got into the All Star Game. As bad as Uggla was, Fukudome had the worst at bat of the game with his swing around whirling dirvish move. It was embarassing. The Cubs have some great players......but he isnt one of them. I'll take the Ludwick, Ankiel, Shumaker combo over Fukudome, Edmonds and I guess Derosa??? Better defensively and puting up better numbers. Who woulda thunk.

 

Are you lost? Try the general baseball forum for discussions of other teams. Otherwise, enjoy your short stay.

[rawaction]

I don't understand how a struggling player who is being counted on to start baseball games is going to break out of his slump by sitting down and watching baseball games for an extended period of time. It's like the Felix Pie thing all over again. He's struggling so he needs to sit for a couple weeks to get better. Then people wondered why he couldn't hit Francisco Cordero in the 9th inning with a week off. It's a great idea to sit a player to "get his head right". Because we all know Fukudome can't hit baseballs right now because he's thinking about circus clowns instead of baseball when he's at the plate.

[rocket]

fukudome looks horrible right now, and it is a bit worrisome. but i'm also confident that he also has another hot streak or 2 in him this season, and his numbers will even out.

 

But what does "his numbers will even out" mean?

 

Here's what bothers me - in 2007 Chicago Cub right fielders hit for a total .795 OPS. Let's say Fukudome finishes the season with a .780 OPS. People will regard that as an "upgrade" because they spin what Fukudome does in whatever positive light they can. I don't even think he's going to finish with a .780 OPS at this point. But it will turn out the Cubs spent $12 million a year to downgrade their offense in right field.

 

Jeromy Burnitz put up a .757 OPS for the Cubs in 2005 for $6 million, 3 years later you could see Fukudome finishing with a .770 OPS (a downgrade from 2007's .795 OPS) and people spinning it as some kind of victory.

 

i'm ok with fukudome finishing with a slightly lower ops if he has a significantly better obp than burnitz/jones and co.

 

by evening out, i mean that his final stats at the end of the year should be similar to where his stats are right now. if he finishes the year with a .380+ OBP, then i think he's been worthwhile. i sure as hell wish he'd hit for power though. but he might need a whole year of mlb pitching to regain his power.

[ChiCubsfan0502]

Then you have a guy like Theriot who gets more flack then any other Cubs player and all he has done is hit and get on base all year. If Theriot has a couple of bad games he is blistered on this board. However, Fukudome, who isn't even a homegrown Cubs player, gets extended passes. :roll:

[rocket]

Then you have a guy like Theriot who gets more flack then any other Cubs player and all he has done is hit and get on base all year. If Theriot has a couple of bad games he is blistered on this board. However, Fukudome, who isn't even a homegrown Cubs player, gets extended passes. :roll:

 

no, not really. yeah, in the beginning of the season, people wanted to see cedeno get the majority of the playing time. is anyone still beating that drum though? i think everyone here wants theriot to have the majority of the playing time.

 

i think some of you just make things up.

[Joe_Cub]

i'm down with theriot.

he probably needs some time off on occasion to keep him rested

[MasterBlaster]

Then you have a guy like Theriot who gets more flack then any other Cubs player and all he has done is hit and get on base all year. If Theriot has a couple of bad games he is blistered on this board. However, Fukudome, who isn't even a homegrown Cubs player, gets extended passes. :roll:

 

no, not really. yeah, in the beginning of the season, people wanted to see cedeno get the majority of the playing time. is anyone still beating that drum though? i think everyone here wants theriot to have the majority of the playing time.

 

i think some of you just make things up.

 

That's sugar coating the amount of hatred and vitriol Ryan Theriot recieved on a daily basis as little as 2 months ago. http://www.northsidebaseball.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=47570&hilit=theriot

 

Theriot still has a short fuse with many on this board (I've been lurking for years), and when he makes a fielding error he's still skewered and blamed for Cub lossdom.

[CubColtPacer]

fukudome looks horrible right now, and it is a bit worrisome. but i'm also confident that he also has another hot streak or 2 in him this season, and his numbers will even out.

 

But what does "his numbers will even out" mean?

 

Here's what bothers me - in 2007 Chicago Cub right fielders hit for a total .795 OPS. Let's say Fukudome finishes the season with a .780 OPS. People will regard that as an "upgrade" because they spin what Fukudome does in whatever positive light they can. I don't even think he's going to finish with a .780 OPS at this point. But it will turn out the Cubs spent $12 million a year to downgrade their offense in right field.

 

Jeromy Burnitz put up a .757 OPS for the Cubs in 2005 for $6 million, 3 years later you could see Fukudome finishing with a .770 OPS (a downgrade from 2007's .795 OPS) and people spinning it as some kind of victory.

 

i'm ok with fukudome finishing with a slightly lower ops if he has a significantly better obp than burnitz/jones and co.

 

by evening out, i mean that his final stats at the end of the year should be similar to where his stats are right now. if he finishes the year with a .380+ OBP, then i think he's been worthwhile. i sure as hell wish he'd hit for power though. but he might need a whole year of mlb pitching to regain his power.

 

To be fair, that doesn't really help the comparison to last year. The Cubs got a .375 combined OBP out of RF last year.

 

As for Fukudome, I just don't think we have any idea what we can expect from him going forward. He could continue to fade, or he could be in his worst slump and start to get out of it and have a better last 2 months. There simply isn't enough information to be able to be somewhat accurate with his projection. So I'm not panicking (panicking is reserved if I knew he was going to keep falling) but I do agree that he should be moved down when Soriano comes back, at least until his slump over the last 16 games is over.

[biittner77]

Then you have a guy like Theriot who gets more flack then any other Cubs player and all he has done is hit and get on base all year. If Theriot has a couple of bad games he is blistered on this board. However, Fukudome, who isn't even a homegrown Cubs player, gets extended passes. :roll:

 

no, not really. yeah, in the beginning of the season, people wanted to see cedeno get the majority of the playing time. is anyone still beating that drum though? i think everyone here wants theriot to have the majority of the playing time.

 

i think some of you just make things up.

 

Comparing the treatment of Fukudome to that of Theriot is somewhat legit. The big difference is that Fukudome has a better, longer track record against higher competition. Theriot had one good month and 5 mediocre to bad ones; hence the concern going into this season.

[Amazing_Grace]

At this point I'm concerned. Rookies will always have their struggles, but this one is getting to be an awfully long drought. Hopefully he will rebound and adjust. It's a process all rookie players go through. It's way too early to write him off, but it's probably time to move him back down in the order. When Soriano's back, I'd like to see Johnson/DeRosa get some of the ABs in RF.

 

Really, this is another good reason to take a look at Milton Bradley. He's not under contract past this season, and he has always hit well. With Kosuke's recent struggles and Edmonds being 39, I think the Cubs need more insurance than Reed Johnson and Micah Hoffpauir.

[CubColtPacer]

At this point I'm concerned. Rookies will always have their struggles, but this one is getting to be an awfully long drought. Hopefully he will rebound and adjust. It's a process all rookie players go through. It's way too early to write him off, but it's probably time to move him back down in the order. When Soriano's back, I'd like to see Johnson/DeRosa get some of the ABs in RF.

 

Really, this is another good reason to take a look at Milton Bradley. He's not under contract past this season, and he has always hit well. With Kosuke's recent struggles and Edmonds being 39, I think the Cubs need more insurance than Reed Johnson and Micah Hoffpauir.

 

Minor nitpick: Edmonds just turned 38 a little less than a month ago. He's not 39.

 

How do you handle the PT if Bradley was acquired?

[MasterBlaster]

Can Bradley play the field? I thought Texas has had him DH all year. I don't know what the health of his knee is.