First Half Cubs MVP

[carolinacubbie]

MVP

[Little Slide Rooter]

This team has been so much of a cohesive unit that I dont know if anyone can be truely pinpointed as the MVP.

[CubColtPacer]

Really tough question.

 

I'll disqualify Marmol, Soriano, and Theriot immediately. Marmol's been great, but he'd have to be dominant all year to really win the MVP of the team, and his slump has destroyed that chance.

 

Soriano has been very productive when he's been out there, but he's also missed a decent part of the year.

 

Theriot is a wonderful surprise, but isn't close to the engine behind this huge offense.

 

Next I'll have to disqualify Wood and Dempster. Great job for both this year, but just a little less than some of the others.

 

I could make serious cases for Lee, Zambrano, Ramirez, Soto, and DeRosa. If I had to pick one, I'd probably go with Ramirez, but it's really, really close, and I wouldn't blame anyone for picking any 1 of the 5.

[TruffleShuffle]

zambrano - combination of offense and pitching has made him more valuable than anyone else.

 

i voted for soto though, since he's my dawg.

[NCCubFan]

Anybody who votes for Marmol should be committed.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Geo in 2008:

293/372/539/911

 

2007 catchers:

239/304/369/673

[CubColtPacer]

Geo in 2008:

293/372/539/911

 

2007 catchers:

239/304/369/673

 

Should the others be penalized because they aren't replacing a black hole?

 

And I'm not sure where you're getting the Soto numbers from. His OPS was .894 before the game today, and it will probably go down 7-8 points after today.

[mcgoobs]

It could really be one of Z, Soto, or Aramis.

 

Z: Havng his best season since 2004 and is coming through nicely with the bat.

 

Soto: Does he deserve some credit with how he calls the game? I don't know. But his bat is just heavenly. The sound Soto's bat makes when he gets a hold of one sends tingles down my spine.

 

Aramis: All around stud.

[Andy]

Gotta be Ramirez. He's been almost as good, if not as good, as Lee on defense, and he's having his best year yet at the plate, and has been unbelievable in close/late spots.

[killthegoat06]

ramirez b/c of the clutch hits

[Sarcastic]

Geo in 2008:

293/372/539/911

 

2007 catchers:

239/304/369/673

 

Should the others be penalized because they aren't replacing a black hole?

 

And I'm not sure where you're getting the Soto numbers from. His OPS was .894 before the game today, and it will probably go down 7-8 points after today.

 

A player who can put up great offensive numbers at a defensive position with few good hitters is definitely more valuable to the team than a player putting up great offensive numbers from a position played by better hitters. Not to take anything away from Ramirez or Lee, but playing as a catcher definitely makes Soto more valuable.

 

Soto's OPS is actually higher than Lee's right now, and a bit below Ramirez's. I think I'd have to go with Soto for first half MVP. He's a huge improvement over what the Cubs put behind the plate last year.

[CubColtPacer]

Geo in 2008:

293/372/539/911

 

2007 catchers:

239/304/369/673

 

Should the others be penalized because they aren't replacing a black hole?

 

And I'm not sure where you're getting the Soto numbers from. His OPS was .894 before the game today, and it will probably go down 7-8 points after today.

 

A player who can put up great offensive numbers at a defensive position with few good hitters is definitely more valuable to the team than a player putting up great offensive numbers from a position played by better hitters. Not to take anything away from Ramirez or Lee, but playing as a catcher definitely makes Soto more valuable.

 

Soto's OPS is actually higher than Lee's right now, and a bit below Ramirez's. I think I'd have to go with Soto for first half MVP. He's a huge improvement over what the Cubs put behind the plate last year.

 

Oh, I definitely agree that Soto as a catcher brings a ton of value. But the Cubs could have had Russell Martin back there last year, and that doesn't make Soto's impact on this season any larger. The better argument (IMO) would have been to compare Soto to other NL catchers, not to what the Cubs had last year.

 

I've eliminated Lee from my list at this point, so that leaves Soto, Ramirez, Zambrano, DeRosa.

 

Soto plays the toughest position to get offense from, and has been very good offensively and defensively.

 

Ramirez has the best OPS on the team and played very good defense at 3rd.

 

Z has a 2.80 ERA and also has a .833 OPS at the plate. That dual threat has made him one of the best value pitchers in the NL this season.

 

DeRosa has good numbers. Not as good as the others. He deserves to be on this list because his flexibility has allowed the Cubs to mix and match the best production in there. For example, DeRosa moving to 3rd and OF has allowed Fontenot (.874 OPS) to even have a roster spot and to shine. It allowed the Cubs to feel comfortable moving both Murton and Patterson in the trade for Harden. DeRosa has also been up and down the lineup, and really doesn't have the same stability that the others have had (and you know how ballplayers love stability!) and still has performed very, very well.

 

After further thought, I'd probably lean towards Z. I think a point and half of ERA+400 OPS points as a hitter is greater than Soto's 200 point OPS upgrade over another catcher.

[rawaction]

I don't understand why anybody would take Zambrano's offense into account more than just icing on the cake. He's great with the bat, but he only has 54 ABs. Felix Pie has more than that and he hasn't been around in 2 months. I'd still put Zambrano in a close tie for 2nd with Ramirez, but it has to go to Soto. Soto is just 19 OPS points behind Ramirez for tops on the team. He doesn't get paid the money the money that Ramirez, Lee and Soriano do to put up those numbers. He's caught nearly everyday for one of the best pitching staffs in the National League. He's stabilized a lineup that needed a middle of the order bat.

[TruffleShuffle]

I don't understand why anybody would take Zambrano's offense into account more than just icing on the cake. He's great with the bat, but he only has 54 ABs. Felix Pie has more than that and he hasn't been around in 2 months. I'd still put Zambrano in a close tie for 2nd with Ramirez, but it has to go to Soto. Soto is just 19 OPS points behind Ramirez for tops on the team. He doesn't get paid the money the money that Ramirez, Lee and Soriano do to put up those numbers. He's caught nearly everyday for one of the best pitching staffs in the National League. He's stabilized a lineup that needed a middle of the order bat.

 

zambrano produces offense from a position that normally gets next to no offense, so those 54 ABs have been more valuable than 54 ABs of, say, a LF producing an .833 OPS.

 

VORP:

Zambrano: 36.8 pitching + 10.1 hitting = 46.9

Dempster: 27.6 pitching + 1.9 hitting = 29.5

Lee: 27.8

Soto: 27.1

ARam: 26.3

 

lee being ahead of soto and aram seems a little weird to me, though.

[CubColtPacer]

I don't understand why anybody would take Zambrano's offense into account more than just icing on the cake. He's great with the bat, but he only has 54 ABs. Felix Pie has more than that and he hasn't been around in 2 months. I'd still put Zambrano in a close tie for 2nd with Ramirez, but it has to go to Soto. Soto is just 19 OPS points behind Ramirez for tops on the team. He doesn't get paid the money the money that Ramirez, Lee and Soriano do to put up those numbers. He's caught nearly everyday for one of the best pitching staffs in the National League. He's stabilized a lineup that needed a middle of the order bat.

 

zambrano produces offense from a position that normally gets next to no offense, so those 54 ABs have been more valuable than 54 ABs of, say, a LF producing an .833 OPS.

 

VORP:

Zambrano: 36.8 pitching + 10.1 hitting = 46.9

Dempster: 27.6 pitching + 1.9 hitting = 29.5

Lee: 27.8

Soto: 27.1

ARam: 26.3

 

lee being ahead of soto and aram seems a little weird to me, though.

 

Lee is ahead because he has only sat 1 game this year. So he has had 50-60 more plate appearances than either Ramirez or Soto, which has allowed him to sneak ahead.

 

And Zambrano's hitting is counted for exactly the reason you describe. He has a 501 point OPS advantage over the average pitcher right now (.833 compared to league average of .332). That's a lot of production that you wouldn't normally get.

 

The next highest difference is Soto, who is 173 points above the average C (.888 vs league average of .715).

 

So even though Soto has 6 times as many at-bats as Z does at a higher OPS, his overall value with the bat has only been 2-3 times better than Z because Z is outclassing his peers by a much wider margin.

[Balsa]

Theriot has been MUCH better than I thought he would this year, but it's got to be Aramis.

[Skyballer]

I'll go with DeRosa. It's been great that when someone goes down, DeRosa can play their and look like a natural at any defenseive position.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

It's been great that when someone goes down, DeRosa can play their and look like a natural at any defenseive position.

 

This probably isn't the right weekend to make this statement.

[CubColtPacer]

It's been great that when someone goes down, DeRosa can play their and look like a natural at any defenseive position.

 

This probably isn't the right weekend to make this statement.

 

Which is strange. When he came over from Texas, they said RF was his best natural position.

 

Yet with the Cubs, it's been 3rd base, then 2nd base, then the OF.

[Skyballer]

It's been great that when someone goes down, DeRosa can play their and look like a natural at any defenseive position.

 

This probably isn't the right weekend to make this statement.

 

Which is strange. When he came over from Texas, they said RF was his best natural position.

 

Yet with the Cubs, it's been 3rd base, then 2nd base, then the OF.

Either way, I have been very happy to have DeRosa play adequate defense wherever he has been put. And I would agree that he has looked better at Third than anywhere else.

[javy knows my name]

It's been great that when someone goes down, DeRosa can play their and look like a natural at any defenseive position.

 

This probably isn't the right weekend to make this statement.

 

Which is strange. When he came over from Texas, they said RF was his best natural position.

 

Yet with the Cubs, it's been 3rd base, then 2nd base, then the OF.

I thought 3rd was his strongest his whole career.

[sneakypower]

Dempster