Harden's Health?

[Bull]

His velocity is fine; Stone is a moron.

 

This bears quoting for it's truthiness.

 

Not just a moron, but a moron with an axe to grind. Dangerous combination.

[PackLandVA]

His velocity is fine; Stone is a moron.

 

This bears quoting for it's truthiness.

 

Not just a moron, but a moron with an axe to grind. Dangerous combination.

 

As much as I find Stone a "Cub Basher" (as of late), I think he really has it out for Hendry. He rarely gives the guy credit for anything but continues to point out bad contracts (actual or presumed), bad trades and general ineptness.

 

I would love for Stone to become a GM/Manager so he could be second-guessed as much as he does the second-guessing. No micrphone to hide behind.

[CoolHandLuke]

If he's throwing fewer splitters, that could explain the decrease in ground balls. Also, since hanging splitters are a HR waiting to happen, perhaps that is why his flyballs are up while the HR are down.

Interesting theory.

 

It's worth noting that Oakland is virtually even with Wrigley this season in HR Park Factor (1.096 to 1.101). It's actually one of the most pitcher-friendly parks in the league despite the HRs, though. Doubles and triples are hard to come by.

 

From what I remember, the huge foul ground in McAfee Coliseum plays a good sized role in how the park plays.

[Jon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWncRBp0kOM

 

Changeups at the 32 and 47 (I think a changeup on this one) second mark. Definately could be mistaken as a slider IMO.

 

Gameday has his sliders ranging from 81-88 mph in his last outing. It's certainly possible those could be mislabeled.

That last one broke a heck of a lot more than the average changeup. I wonder just how much horizontal break it gets, though.

 

Thanks for the link, Rammy.

[Brett]

81 mph changeup following a 97 mph fastball? That's nice.

[badger1679666666]

81 mph changeup following a 97 mph fastball? That's nice.

 

Almost as nice as Z's 59 mph curve followed by a 95 mph fastball tonight.

 

That's just sick.

 

:lol:

[Coach C]

Not to totally derail from his health status/issue, but has BP or PECOTA updated their information on Harden as well as Gaudin?

[Coach C]

Another thing that makes me a bit concerned is that sometimes I just do not trust Moneyball anymore. Looking at one side of the fence, some people may not trust any pitchers coming from Oakland. Look at all of the stud pitchers that spent any significant amount of time there that was traded recently. Zito... turned to crap. Mulder... even bigger bust. Hudson... the best of the three, but definitely not the ace he was supposed to be. Oakland overworks their starters and then gets rid of them at high values. Then they break down and are never the same.

[ConstableRabbit]

Another thing that makes me a bit concerned is that sometimes I just do not trust Moneyball anymore. Looking at one side of the fence, some people may not trust any pitchers coming from Oakland. Look at all of the stud pitchers that spent any significant amount of time there that was traded recently. Zito... turned to crap. Mulder... even bigger bust. Hudson... the best of the three, but definitely not the ace he was supposed to be. Oakland overworks their starters and then gets rid of them at high values. Then they break down and are never the same.

How does that, in any way, conflict with what was discussed in Moneyball?

[RammyFanny]

Another thing that makes me a bit concerned is that sometimes I just do not trust Moneyball anymore. Looking at one side of the fence, some people may not trust any pitchers coming from Oakland. Look at all of the stud pitchers that spent any significant amount of time there that was traded recently. Zito... turned to crap. Mulder... even bigger bust. Hudson... the best of the three, but definitely not the ace he was supposed to be. Oakland overworks their starters and then gets rid of them at high values. Then they break down and are never the same.

Hudson is pretty damn good.

 

Don't forget Haren.

 

Either way, you can't relate this to Harden in any way. He hasn't even gotten the chance to be overused because of all of the time he's missed.

[Coach C]

Another thing that makes me a bit concerned is that sometimes I just do not trust Moneyball anymore. Looking at one side of the fence, some people may not trust any pitchers coming from Oakland. Look at all of the stud pitchers that spent any significant amount of time there that was traded recently. Zito... turned to crap. Mulder... even bigger bust. Hudson... the best of the three, but definitely not the ace he was supposed to be. Oakland overworks their starters and then gets rid of them at high values. Then they break down and are never the same.

Hudson is pretty damn good.

 

Don't forget Haren.

 

Either way, you can't relate this to Harden in any way. He hasn't even gotten the chance to be overused because of all of the time he's missed.

 

That's true, about that he hasn't gotten the chance to be overused, since he's been spending time in the DL, for the most part. Still though, as it has been mentioned everywhere, it has a high risk, but it also has a high reward, provided he stay healthy. I'm just simply pointing out that the A's, for the most part, have been spot on. I thought they made a mistake to let Zito go, but apparently they knew what the hell they were doing. Same with Mulder. Hudson is pretty good, no doubt, but I don't think he's the ace that many people thought that he was supposed to be.

 

As for Haren, I just completely forgot about him.

[RedFlash]

Am I the only one who sees Harden being compare to Curtis Montague Schilling? Both extremely talented RHers, who has had injury concerns early in their careers.

 

But as soon as Curt Schilling got healthy he averaged:

 

231 IPs

2.43ERA

1.19WHIP

231:42 K:BB

31 starts

 

This was between 1997-2007. (*They may be a little off, but should be close to accurate. I'm talking about his career between 97-07, and not his whole career)

 

And I can remember, all the stories of when will Curt Schilling ever be healthy to reach his potential, and whatnot. And not to mention, Schilling had one more full healthy season then Harden before injuries hit. So when Schilling got healthy, he arguably was baseball's best pitcher between 1997 and 2007.

 

Why can't the same be said about Rich Harden?

[David]

Another thing that makes me a bit concerned is that sometimes I just do not trust Moneyball anymore. Looking at one side of the fence, some people may not trust any pitchers coming from Oakland. Look at all of the stud pitchers that spent any significant amount of time there that was traded recently. Zito... turned to crap. Mulder... even bigger bust. Hudson... the best of the three, but definitely not the ace he was supposed to be. Oakland overworks their starters and then gets rid of them at high values. Then they break down and are never the same.

Hudson is pretty damn good.

 

Don't forget Haren.

 

Either way, you can't relate this to Harden in any way. He hasn't even gotten the chance to be overused because of all of the time he's missed.

 

That's true, about that he hasn't gotten the chance to be overused, since he's been spending time in the DL, for the most part. Still though, as it has been mentioned everywhere, it has a high risk, but it also has a high reward, provided he stay healthy. I'm just simply pointing out that the A's, for the most part, have been spot on. I thought they made a mistake to let Zito go, but apparently they knew what the hell they were doing. Same with Mulder. Hudson is pretty good, no doubt, but I don't think he's the ace that many people thought that he was supposed to be.

 

As for Haren, I just completely forgot about him.

 

You really thought they made a mistake letting Zito go? Everyone and their mother seemed to know Zito was bad news and in a decline (his decent looking "traditional" numbers aside, his peripherals were getting worse and worse).

 

Some people were fooled into thinking he was still good because of his early 2000's reputation and good looking ERA and record, but I remember knowing that I wanted nothing to do with him, and that seemed to be the consensus among many fans.

 

Plus Hudson has been very, very good and there's no reason to see Haren suddenly tanking anytime soon.

 

I just think the whole "Oakland gets rid of their starters and they turn to crap" thing is overstated.

[CoolHandLuke]

Another thing that makes me a bit concerned is that sometimes I just do not trust Moneyball anymore. Looking at one side of the fence, some people may not trust any pitchers coming from Oakland. Look at all of the stud pitchers that spent any significant amount of time there that was traded recently. Zito... turned to crap. Mulder... even bigger bust. Hudson... the best of the three, but definitely not the ace he was supposed to be. Oakland overworks their starters and then gets rid of them at high values. Then they break down and are never the same.

Hudson is pretty damn good.

 

Don't forget Haren.

 

Either way, you can't relate this to Harden in any way. He hasn't even gotten the chance to be overused because of all of the time he's missed.

 

That's true, about that he hasn't gotten the chance to be overused, since he's been spending time in the DL, for the most part. Still though, as it has been mentioned everywhere, it has a high risk, but it also has a high reward, provided he stay healthy. I'm just simply pointing out that the A's, for the most part, have been spot on. I thought they made a mistake to let Zito go, but apparently they knew what the hell they were doing. Same with Mulder. Hudson is pretty good, no doubt, but I don't think he's the ace that many people thought that he was supposed to be.

 

As for Haren, I just completely forgot about him.

 

You really thought they made a mistake letting Zito go? Everyone and their mother seemed to know Zito was bad news and in a decline (his decent looking "traditional" numbers aside, his peripherals were getting worse and worse).

 

Some people were fooled into thinking he was still good because of his early 2000's reputation and good looking ERA and record, but I remember knowing that I wanted nothing to do with him, and that seemed to be the consensus among many fans.

 

Plus Hudson has been very, very good and there's no reason to see Haren suddenly tanking anytime soon.

 

I just think the whole "Oakland gets rid of their starters and they turn to crap" thing is overstated.

 

Not to mention the fact that they didn't even make a decision on Zito. The only thing they decided was not to trade him during the season.

[Joe_Cub]

cubs are going to take it easy on him, give him an extra day between starts and skip him sometimes to try to keep him fresh late into the season

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-080709-rich-harden-chicago-cubs,1,5662681.story

 

The Cubs plan on doing everything possible to keep Harden healthy, short of keeping him in a protective bubble. They will give him an extra day between starts, and could even skip a start on occasion, if necessary, to ensure his readiness in October.

 

The risk of injury is why Harden was made available, despite the fact Oakland remains in a tight playoff race with the Angels in the American League West.

 

"Let's not be na�ve," general manager Jim Hendry said. "If he hadn't spent a lot of time on the DL the last few years, he's not in Chicago today—he's an untouchable."

 

Now that he's a Cub, Harden will work closely with trainer Mark O'Neal and pitching coach Larry Rothschild to get on a schedule that keeps him as fresh as possible.

 

"It's good to hear that," Harden said. "I feel like I can go out there every fifth or sixth day, and if I get a day off here or there, it definitely makes a difference. Just with the history of having some injuries, that one extra day does make a difference, so I think that's something that we'd do."

 

Manager Lou Piniella said Harden would start the fourth game of the second-half in Arizona on July 21, which would give him eight days off if he makes his Cubs debut on Saturday.

 

If he doesn't pitch this weekend, he will have a two-week break between starts.

 

Piniella said hitting coach Gerald Perry, who was on Oakland's staff before coming to the Cubs, told him "This guy really competes. He can win. So let's keep him healthy."

 

And how do the Cubs ensure that?

 

"We have the luxury here of having six starters, so we can skip somebody if we need to," Piniella said. "We can work around it."

[Magnetic Curses]

His velocity is fine; Stone is a moron.

 

This bears quoting for it's truthiness.

 

i don't think you know what truthiness means.

[jersey cubs fan]

Am I the only one who sees Harden being compare to Curtis Montague Schilling? Both extremely talented RHers, who has had injury concerns early in their careers.

 

But as soon as Curt Schilling got healthy he averaged:

 

231 IPs

2.43ERA

1.19WHIP

231:42 K:BB

31 starts

 

This was between 1997-2007. (*They may be a little off, but should be close to accurate. I'm talking about his career between 97-07, and not his whole career)

 

And I can remember, all the stories of when will Curt Schilling ever be healthy to reach his potential, and whatnot. And not to mention, Schilling had one more full healthy season then Harden before injuries hit. So when Schilling got healthy, he arguably was baseball's best pitcher between 1997 and 2007.

 

Why can't the same be said about Rich Harden?

 

The biggest difference is size. Schilling's a big ole' sombitch. Harden's kind of tiny. Curt has the type of pitcher's body that many believe is ideal for withstanding big innings. He also started his major league career as a reliever before being thrown into back-to-back 200+ inning seasons in his mid 20's, which may have contributed to his late 20's health issues. Harden has been a starter throughout his career, but health has kept him from approaching the workload that Schilling had at this age. He may go on to have the type of career Schilling had, but I don't think there's much similarity between the two.

[CuseCubFan69]

His velocity is fine; Stone is a moron.

 

This bears quoting for it's truthiness.

 

Not just a moron, but a moron with an axe to grind. Dangerous combination.

 

As much as I find Stone a "Cub Basher" (as of late), I think he really has it out for Hendry. He rarely gives the guy credit for anything but continues to point out bad contracts (actual or presumed), bad trades and general ineptness.

 

I would love for Stone to become a GM/Manager so he could be second-guessed as much as he does the second-guessing. No micrphone to hide behind.

 

I wish he would become the GM for the White Sox.

[CuseCubFan69]

Am I the only one who sees Harden being compare to Curtis Montague Schilling? Both extremely talented RHers, who has had injury concerns early in their careers.

 

But as soon as Curt Schilling got healthy he averaged:

 

231 IPs

2.43ERA

1.19WHIP

231:42 K:BB

31 starts

 

This was between 1997-2007. (*They may be a little off, but should be close to accurate. I'm talking about his career between 97-07, and not his whole career)

 

And I can remember, all the stories of when will Curt Schilling ever be healthy to reach his potential, and whatnot. And not to mention, Schilling had one more full healthy season then Harden before injuries hit. So when Schilling got healthy, he arguably was baseball's best pitcher between 1997 and 2007.

 

Why can't the same be said about Rich Harden?

 

The biggest difference is size. Schilling's a big ole' sombitch. Harden's kind of tiny. Curt has the type of pitcher's body that many believe is ideal for withstanding big innings. He also started his major league career as a reliever before being thrown into back-to-back 200+ inning seasons in his mid 20's, which may have contributed to his late 20's health issues. Harden has been a starter throughout his career, but health has kept him from approaching the workload that Schilling had at this age. He may go on to have the type of career Schilling had, but I don't think there's much similarity between the two.

 

How big is Harden? Harden reminds me of Oswalt for some reason.

[David]

6'1" 195

 

Oswalt is 6'0" 185

 

Schilling 6'5" 225

 

 

Then again, Prior is listed the exact same size as Schilling, didn't seem to do much for him... :?

[CuseCubFan69]

6'1" 195

 

Oswalt is 6'0" 185

 

Schilling 6'5" 225

 

 

Then again, Prior is listed the exact same size as Schilling, didn't seem to do much for him... :?

 

Schilling always look to fill his uni a lot more than Prior did to me.

 

6'1" isn't a bad size if it's really his size. He could be another Beasley for all we know!

[badger1679666666]

His velocity is fine; Stone is a moron.

 

This bears quoting for it's truthiness.

 

i don't think you know what truthiness means.

 

No, I'm indicting Stone with truthiness, not nolanwood. I can see how that would be mistaken though.

[RammyFanny]

I'm loving everything said in the article posted above. Nice to see both sides are on the same page and mutual about him getting enough rest as possible.

[Jon]

Today's start:

Pitch Type  	Average Speed  	Max Speed  	Average H-Break  	Average V-Break  	Number Thrown  	Strike Percentage
FA (Fastball)	92.95         	97.4	        -3.81	           11.57	            64             	62.50
CH (Changeup)	86.59	         88.3	        -2.44	           5.71	             24	             91.67
SL (Slider)	  86.30	         88.3	        -0.91	           5.05	             8	              50.00

 

http://brooksbaseball.net/pfx/speed.php?xml=http://gd2.mlb.com/components/game/mlb/year_2008/month_07/day_12/gid_2008_07_12_sfnmlb_chnmlb_1//pbp/pitchers/425848.xml&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=1

 

http://brooksbaseball.net/pfx/virtualTop.php?xml=http://gd2.mlb.com/components/game/mlb/year_2008/month_07/day_12/gid_2008_07_12_sfnmlb_chnmlb_1//pbp/pitchers/425848.xml&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=1

 

http://brooksbaseball.net/pfx/virtualSide.php?xml=http://gd2.mlb.com/components/game/mlb/year_2008/month_07/day_12/gid_2008_07_12_sfnmlb_chnmlb_1//pbp/pitchers/425848.xml&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=1

 

He apparently throws 3 different kinds of changeups and he can call them whatever he wants, but they're not the same kind of pitch.