Harden's Health?

[Jon]

One other scout who watched said Harden has changed since the injuries, throwing "only fastballs and changeups, no sliders or splitters," and that he topped out about 90-92 m.p.h. on the radar gun. Earlier in the year his fastball had been clocked at 94 m.p.h.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-080708-rich-harden-chicago-cubs-trade,1,3779313.story

 

Honesly, you'd think it's bad news to find out he's only throwing 2 pitches, but outside of his last 2 starts (which weren't terrible), he's still been unhittable, so if it let's him pitch more innings i'm fine.

 

I'm assuming they are talking about since his last trip to the DL right? Or are they just talking about since the recent dead arm start?

Last time out:

 

Fastballs - 46

Sliders - 35

Splitter - 1

Changeup - 1

 

I doubt his changeup breaks enough to be mistaken by PitchFX as a slider.

[Jon]

If he's throwing fewer splitters, that could explain the decrease in ground balls. Also, since hanging splitters are a HR waiting to happen, perhaps that is why his flyballs are up while the HR are down.

Interesting theory.

 

It's worth noting that Oakland is virtually even with Wrigley this season in HR Park Factor (1.096 to 1.101). It's actually one of the most pitcher-friendly parks in the league despite the HRs, though. Doubles and triples are hard to come by.

[RammyFanny]

Last time out:

 

Fastballs - 46

Sliders - 35

Splitter - 1

Changeup - 1

 

I may be wrong on this, so correct me if i'm wrong, but Len and Bob made it seem like Harden's changeup was an important pitch for him and that it was used quite often. If that's true, i'm highly doubting he only threw 1 in his last start.

[Jon]

Last time out:

 

Fastballs - 46

Sliders - 35

Splitter - 1

Changeup - 1

 

I may be wrong on this, so correct me if i'm wrong, but Len and Bob made it seem like Harden's changeup was an important pitch for him and that it was used quite often. If that's true, i'm highly doubting he only threw 1 in his last start.

7/1

Sliders - 26

Changeup - 1

 

6/26

Sliders - 26

Changeup - 3

 

Perhaps he gets a lot of break on his changeup. I don't know. If he does, it may not be as good as his normal "slider," but it appears to be an effective breaking pitch.

[David]

Or maybe Len and Bob were just wrong...

[Jon]

Or maybe Len and Bob were just wrong...

Well, they would have been going off of someone else's scouting report.

 

Hopefully CubsFX.com will do the same breakdown that they did with CC a couple of days ago.

[RammyFanny]

Or maybe Len and Bob were just wrong...

Very well could be.

 

They were talking about how Harden was so effective against lefties as well, and talked about how his changeup was a big reason why and was one of the best in the league.

 

That was about all they said, but the way the made it sound seemed like it would be thrown more than once in an entire ball game.

[David]

Boers and Bernstein continue to say on the Score (based on what Stone said before) that he's throwing only fastball/changeup.

 

 

Could PitchFX possibly be that wrong?

[RammyFanny]

Just turned on the Score and as they were leaving to break they said Hendry was on the radio earlier and said that they'd give Harden 6 days rest if he wanted it.

[David]

Also, I'm not sure, but they seemed to be suggesting that Harden was a steroid user (they talked about players from the bay area, injuries, mentioned other former suspected steroid users).

 

Generally, I like their show, but I really hate how they accuse any and everyone of using steroids.

[USSoccer]

I think the Chicago media is waiting for the chance to label Harden as Prior/Wood redux. There's no other excuse for the lack of basic research that has gone into some of the crap written so far.

[hawkeyecub]

I think the Chicago media is waiting for the chance to label Harden as Prior/Wood redux. There's no other excuse for the lack of basic research that has gone into some of the crap written so far.

 

In fairness, the national media has talked just as much about how he hasn't been throwing his slider lately and has become a two-pitch pitcher.

[Wilmo]

From the looks of this video he has one hell of a curve ball. Could have led to the injuries I guess. :mrgreen:

 

[javy knows my name]

I think the Chicago media is waiting for the chance to label Harden as Prior/Wood redux. There's no other excuse for the lack of basic research that has gone into some of the crap written so far.

 

In fairness, the national media has talked just as much about how he hasn't been throwing his slider lately and has become a two-pitch pitcher.

So you doubt that the national media is waiting for the chance to do the same?

[jersey cubs fan]

Just turned on the Score and as they were leaving to break they said Hendry was on the radio earlier and said that they'd give Harden 6 days rest if he wanted it.

 

I think this topic should be discussed more. They need to be creative with Harden. Somebody jokingly suggested trading for him and putting him on the DL before this all went down. With the 4-day break coming up and 3 off days in August, I'd like to see them mix in some rest for him by going with Marshall and Marquis, and possibly even a Lieber start against a team he might match up with (Houston or Washington perhaps).

 

I'd have Lilly and Zambrano take the first two starts after the break, then possibly throw Marquis in game three to push both Dempster and Harden back. Call Marshall back up in late July and give him a start in AZ or againt FLA.

[UMFan83]

Honestly, why even pitch him before the break? Have Zambrano, Lilly, Marquis, Marshall and Dempster finish off the homestand, enjoy a 4 day All Star break, and have him pitch the second game, after Zambrano post ASB. This gives his arm a 12 day rest in between game action, which is almost like a 15 day DL stint.

 

We, unlike the Brewers, are not in a position of having to make games up in the standings at this point. I'm not saying we've come anywhere close to locking up a playoff spot or anything, but we should use this lead to our advantage and keep our new gun fresh before October.

[CubinNY]

Just turned on the Score and as they were leaving to break they said Hendry was on the radio earlier and said that they'd give Harden 6 days rest if he wanted it.

 

I think this topic should be discussed more. They need to be creative with Harden. Somebody jokingly suggested trading for him and putting him on the DL before this all went down. With the 4-day break coming up and 3 off days in August, I'd like to see them mix in some rest for him by going with Marshall and Marquis, and possibly even a Lieber start against a team he might match up with (Houston or Washington perhaps).

 

I'd have Lilly and Zambrano take the first two starts after the break, then possibly throw Marquis in game three to push both Dempster and Harden back. Call Marshall back up in late July and give him a start in AZ or againt FLA.

I think that is a good idea provided they have enough of a lead. Keeping Marshall and especially Marquis fresh in the dog days is a good plan too. Marquis really fades after the ASB.

[jersey cubs fan]

Honestly, why even pitch him before the break? Have Zambrano, Lilly, Marquis, Marshall and Dempster finish off the homestand, enjoy a 4 day All Star break, and have him pitch the second game, after Zambrano post ASB. This gives his arm a 12 day rest in between game action, which is almost like a 15 day DL stint.

 

We, unlike the Brewers, are not in a position of having to make games up in the standings at this point. I'm not saying we've come anywhere close to locking up a playoff spot or anything, but we should use this lead to our advantage and keep our new gun fresh before October.

 

I don't think there's much risk (other than normal risk) of letting him go Saturday, on 5 days rest. Then if he pitches game 3 after the break that's an additional 7 days rest, and if they insert Marshall/Lieber somewhere in there, his next outing can be on 5 or more days rest.

[Guest]

I'm a bit disappointed the Cubs haven't used Dempster a bit more cautiously seeing as he's already thrown more inning this year than he has since 2002.

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm a bit disappointed the Cubs haven't used Dempster a bit more cautiously seeing as he's already thrown more inning this year than he has since 2002.

 

I think Zambrano's injury may have prevented that. But it's been difficult considering how well he's pitched. After a string of 100+ outings, he's gone 71, 91, 103, with the last outing coming on 5 days rest. Hopefully he gets some rest after the break.

[RammyFanny]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWncRBp0kOM

 

Changeups at the 32 and 47 (I think a changeup on this one) second mark. Definately could be mistaken as a slider IMO.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Honestly, why even pitch him before the break? Have Zambrano, Lilly, Marquis, Marshall and Dempster finish off the homestand, enjoy a 4 day All Star break, and have him pitch the second game, after Zambrano post ASB. This gives his arm a 12 day rest in between game action, which is almost like a 15 day DL stint.

 

We, unlike the Brewers, are not in a position of having to make games up in the standings at this point. I'm not saying we've come anywhere close to locking up a playoff spot or anything, but we should use this lead to our advantage and keep our new gun fresh before October.

 

I wouldn't mind Harden not pitching before the break, but that means we either go to 13 pitchers, or Cotts/Wuertz has to go down, putting us down a reliever.

[cubs121]

I'm pretty sure i saw some changeups when i was looking at Harden's highlights of his start against the Giants. Maybe those werent changeups but they sure did look like em with the velocity.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWncRBp0kOM

 

Changeups at the 32 and 47 (I think a changeup on this one) second mark. Definately could be mistaken as a slider IMO.

 

Gameday has his sliders ranging from 81-88 mph in his last outing. It's certainly possible those could be mislabeled.

[hawkeyecub]

Lou said the order of the rotation will be Lilly, Z, Dempster, Harden and Marquis after the break.