i think marmol is broken, you guys

[CubbieBum]

It's not the same issue. He's not getting hit hard, but he hasn't had command for the 2nd game in a row. In his 8 previous outings before his last one, he walked 2 and hit 1 over 6.1 IP. When he's been in the zone recently, they haven't done a whole lot.

 

No.

 

He's broken.

 

Responding to you and NC, I respectfully disagree. He didn't have it today and has been inconsistent of late. He has not been getting hit hard for the most part. The problem isn't that he is broken, its that Lou left him out there too long today.

 

Care to explain how Marmol had a bad outing because he was left in too long when he allowed 3 runs before getting two outs? Sure the two tying runs came in because he wasn't pulled but he had an awful outing before then. People saying he isn't getting hit hard alluding to him just getting a bit unlucky and will get it turned around need to wake up, watch the games and realize it won't be an easy fix. Since June 19th he has allowed 14 runs in 9 1/3 innings. That's an ERA over 13.50. He has given up at least one run in 6 of 12 outing since then. For a relief pitcher that's an essentially guaranteed 4.50 ERA because RP tend to pitch only one inning. And in 1/4 of his outings he's given up multiple runs. That's not being inconsistent that's just outright suckage. I love Marmol and he is still one of my favorite players but he needs to demoted either to Mesa or Iowa until he figures it out because we can't afford to lose any games while he figures it out.

[TruffleShuffle]

I love Marmol and he is still one of my favorite players but he needs to demoted either to Mesa or Iowa until he figures it out because we can't afford to lose any games while he figures it out.

 

we can't? the cubs have a 5 game lead and are something like a 95% chance to make the playoffs.

[NCCubFan]

I love Marmol and he is still one of my favorite players but he needs to demoted either to Mesa or Iowa until he figures it out because we can't afford to lose any games while he figures it out.

 

we can't? the cubs have a 5 game lead and are something like a 95% chance to make the playoffs.

Make that a 5.5 game lead (largest all year, I believe).

[Mizzou]

I don't think he's hurt, but clearly there's something wrong. He's been an entirely different pitcher the last few weeks or so. I don't know if it's overuse, injury, or what, but to deny that something is wrong/different is basically claiming visual impairment.

[XZero771679666304]

While Marmol may have lost a bit of movement (perhaps fatigue, a week or two off would do him some good, IMO), I don't think he's "broken". As bad as things were today, it was better than when guys were really squaring him up. I think he just a little bit off, and needs an extended break.

 

 

Also, Carlos has had his problems throwing strikes all year (and last year), but his movement was enough to induce swings. Is it possible that hitters have simply resolved to take more pitches and let him get into trouble? And his reduced movement has exacerbated things?

 

Now our good friend Ender says Marmol is just a slightly better version of Derrick Turnbow. Obviously, this is hyperbole. But let's not pretend he was feeding the strike zone, even when he was on.

[Sammy Sofa]

Also, Carlos has had his problems throwing strikes all year (and last year), but his movement was enough to induce swings. Is it possible that hitters have simply resolved to take more pitches and let him get into trouble? And his reduced movement has exacerbated things?

 

Bingo. He always was riding the strike zone, and he's been around enough now that teams know to lay off of him and force him to either throw the very hittable fastball or walk them.

[Athletics36]

Also, Carlos has had his problems throwing strikes all year (and last year), but his movement was enough to induce swings. Is it possible that hitters have simply resolved to take more pitches and let him get into trouble? And his reduced movement has exacerbated things?

 

Bingo. He always was riding the strike zone, and he's been around enough now that teams know to lay off of him and force him to either throw the very hittable fastball or walk them.

 

Just wanted to add about something I had heard from a visiting teams announcers. They had said that a scouting report was out on marmol and it was that he misses with his SL 90% of the time. Teams are laying off this pitch and he's having to rely more on his FB and he's leaving this pitch up in the zone. I'm going to say this again is that I always thought Marmol was throwing his SL way to much. Its a nasty pitch with lots of movement but if you watch closely its mostly not a strike. Also if you watch Marmols delivery its pretty violent with all the movement he's got and puts lots of stress on his right arm. I have also noticed that his arm angle seems to change from time to time which could be why most pitches are up in the zone. I think the Cubs thought Marmol had figured it out as he threw great his last three appearances but after yesterday it might be time to rethink that.

[YearofDaCubs]

Time to put Marmol on the DL and give him 2-3 weeks of rest. That's what I would do at least.

[NCCubFan]

If I recall, the most recent time he lost it was actually in the middle of an outing. I believe the first two batters were easy outs, but then there was a fluke hit, and it's been downhill ever since. Didn't the fluke hit actually go off of his hand, or am I thinking of something else?

[weis21]

I love Marmol and he is still one of my favorite players but he needs to demoted either to Mesa or Iowa until he figures it out because we can't afford to lose any games while he figures it out.

 

we can't? the cubs have a 5 game lead and are something like a 95% chance to make the playoffs.

Make that a 5.5 game lead (largest all year, I believe).

Not to mention the largest divisional lead in baseball.

[NCCubFan]

I love Marmol and he is still one of my favorite players but he needs to demoted either to Mesa or Iowa until he figures it out because we can't afford to lose any games while he figures it out.

 

we can't? the cubs have a 5 game lead and are something like a 95% chance to make the playoffs.

Make that a 5.5 game lead (largest all year, I believe).

Not to mention the largest divisional lead in baseball.

Which is even more impressive considering the second and third best teams in the NL are in the same division.

[evv98]

I love Marmol and he is still one of my favorite players but he needs to demoted either to Mesa or Iowa until he figures it out because we can't afford to lose any games while he figures it out.

 

we can't? the cubs have a 5 game lead and are something like a 95% chance to make the playoffs.

Make that a 5.5 game lead (largest all year, I believe).

Not to mention the largest divisional lead in baseball.

 

I bet more than a few Brewer fans were saying the exact same things last year.

 

I am not agreeing with the notion to send Marmol down, but the Cubs are in no position to take anything for granted at this point in the season. Including the meltdown in Tampa, Marmol has pitched 10 1/3 innings in 12 appearances. In that time he has given up 20 runs, 18 ER on 16 hits, 11 BB and at least 3 HBP...and has only struck out 7 batters. He has given up runs in six of those 12 outings, and more than one run three times. This isn't a one time thing.

 

The bottom line is that whether the league has figured him out, or there is an injury, I don't think we can count on seeing the Marmol of the last year-and-two-months anytime soon. A lot of people complained about him coming into games with four and five run leads, and now that may be the only time we see him because he cannot be trusted in the higher leverage situations anymore.

[CubinNY]

The bottom line is that whether the league has figured him out, or there is an injury, I don't think we can count on seeing the Marmol of the last year-and-two-months anytime soon. A lot of people complained about him coming into games with four and five run leads, and now that may be the only time we see him because he cannot be trusted in the higher leverage situations anymore.

I don't think the league has figured him out. Yesterday was a combination of luck (bloop hits) and bad baseball (by Marmol and Theriot). IMO, Marmol is just tired. He's a little worn down. The ASB will do him well.

[evv98]

The bottom line is that whether the league has figured him out, or there is an injury, I don't think we can count on seeing the Marmol of the last year-and-two-months anytime soon. A lot of people complained about him coming into games with four and five run leads, and now that may be the only time we see him because he cannot be trusted in the higher leverage situations anymore.

I don't think the league has figured him out. Yesterday was a combination of luck (bloop hits) and bad baseball (by Marmol and Theriot). IMO, Marmol is just tired. He's a little worn down. The ASB will do him well.

 

I hope you are right. Marmol has been one of my favorites on a team of great guys. I hope it is a tired arm, but I am a life-long Cub fan so pessimism reigns...even in the best of times.

[Sammy Sofa]

Angel Guzman, your table is ready.

[C.C.]

Angel Guzman, your table is ready.

 

 

I was just thinking about him earlier this Morning. Whats the word on him? What's his time table?

[CubColtPacer]

Angel Guzman, your table is ready.

 

 

I was just thinking about him earlier this Morning. Whats the word on him? What's his time table?

 

The Cubs have him on a timetable to come up on September 1st in order to protect his last remaining option for next season. He's still in Mesa, but he's just waiting for the date that he can start moving up the minors.

[Guest]

Also, Carlos has had his problems throwing strikes all year (and last year), but his movement was enough to induce swings. Is it possible that hitters have simply resolved to take more pitches and let him get into trouble? And his reduced movement has exacerbated things?

 

Bingo. He always was riding the strike zone, and he's been around enough now that teams know to lay off of him and force him to either throw the very hittable fastball or walk them.

 

Just wanted to add about something I had heard from a visiting teams announcers. They had said that a scouting report was out on marmol and it was that he misses with his SL 90% of the time. Teams are laying off this pitch and he's having to rely more on his FB and he's leaving this pitch up in the zone. I'm going to say this again is that I always thought Marmol was throwing his SL way to much. Its a nasty pitch with lots of movement but if you watch closely its mostly not a strike. Also if you watch Marmols delivery its pretty violent with all the movement he's got and puts lots of stress on his right arm. I have also noticed that his arm angle seems to change from time to time which could be why most pitches are up in the zone. I think the Cubs thought Marmol had figured it out as he threw great his last three appearances but after yesterday it might be time to rethink that.

 

That makes sense.

[C.C.]

Give the kid a good 7-10 days rest...

[RynoRules]

It's not the same issue. He's not getting hit hard, but he hasn't had command for the 2nd game in a row. In his 8 previous outings before his last one, he walked 2 and hit 1 over 6.1 IP. When he's been in the zone recently, they haven't done a whole lot.

 

No.

 

He's broken.

 

Responding to you and NC, I respectfully disagree. He didn't have it today and has been inconsistent of late. He has not been getting hit hard for the most part. The problem isn't that he is broken, its that Lou left him out there too long today.

 

Care to explain how Marmol had a bad outing because he was left in too long when he allowed 3 runs before getting two outs? Sure the two tying runs came in because he wasn't pulled but he had an awful outing before then. People saying he isn't getting hit hard alluding to him just getting a bit unlucky and will get it turned around need to wake up, watch the games and realize it won't be an easy fix. Since June 19th he has allowed 14 runs in 9 1/3 innings. That's an ERA over 13.50. He has given up at least one run in 6 of 12 outing since then. For a relief pitcher that's an essentially guaranteed 4.50 ERA because RP tend to pitch only one inning. And in 1/4 of his outings he's given up multiple runs. That's not being inconsistent that's just outright suckage. I love Marmol and he is still one of my favorite players but he needs to demoted either to Mesa or Iowa until he figures it out because we can't afford to lose any games while he figures it out.

 

 

I watch almost all the games and have seen that almost no one is hitting Mamrol hard. He's not pounding the strikezone as he once was and - as mentioned earlier - teams have learned to layoff his slider. Plus he is hitting guys. That has been problem for about a month now.

 

And I won't bother re-stating the fact that the Cubs have a nice cushion in their division and have a good enough team overall to overcome a slump by one player.

[BCVM22]

Broken or not, he's now an All-Star.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=txcubsmarmol&prov=st&type=lgns

 

#-o

[wvcbxl]

They really need to figure out the problem before they can determine what the solution is.

 

I would like to voice my support for this idea.

Random speculation (as much fun as it may be on an internet forum) won't do him any good.

[Jehrico]

Do we still get credit for 8 all stars since he's only getting the nod to replace one of our own?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

That scouting report seems a little strange to me. When Marmol was going well his slider was his get me over pitch, and quite often he'd hit the glove exactly with it. Obviously that's when he's at his best so it's not always applicable, but still he relied on his slider because he could put it over the plate when he wanted to, not just because it's a wiffle ball pitch that gets swings and misses out of the zone.

[Monco]

That scouting report sounds a few weeks old, when he had control problems. I believe his problems are from overuse. My previous post made mention on Piniella bringing him into games with 6 run leads. This wasn't being done to get him work because he hadn't pitched in awhile,but to win now. He has 50 appearances! Piniella made it sound like Marmol booting the ball caused everything yesterday. He was struggling before that. Lous been in denial about Marmols overuse for awhile. Hes denied it by pointing out that his velocity is the same. Hes also speculated about tipping his pitches.

Marmol needs to go on the DL. He needs rest. I don't believe hes injured,just tired. Sending him to Iowa will have him pitching,not resting. Putting him on the DL will eliminate the temptation to have him pitch his way out of his problems. Being named an all-star makes things worse. Piniella said he would defer to Hurdle as far as pitching him.