Baseball History Thread

[OleMissCub]

I figured the board could use one since it often comes up in other threads.

 

Here's a starter question: Worst team to win a World Series?

 

I'd go with the Cardinals in 2006.

[evv98]

How can that be debated?

 

'87 Twins would be a close second.

[otis89]

Exactly. The Cardinals had the worst record of any team in a non-strike year to win the World Series. It can't be debated.

[OleMissCub]

Ya, I guess worst World Series team is pretty much a no-brainer.

 

Here's one that is probably very debatable. If you had to chose two men that have been elected (by the writers) to the HOF in the past 20 years that you would take out of the hall, who would they be?

 

Candidates are:

 

Willie Stargell

Johnny Bench

Yaz

Joe Morgan

Jim Palmer

Rod Carew

Ferguson Jenkins

Gaylord Perry

Rollie Fingers

Tom Seaver

Reggie Jackson

Steve Carlton

Mike Schmidt

Phil Niekro

Don Sutton

George Brett

Nolan Ryan

Robin Yount

Carlton Fisk

Tony Perez

Kirby Puckett

Dave Winfield

Ozzie Smith

Gary Carter

Eddie Murray

Dennis Eckersley

Paul Molitor

Wade Boggs

Sandberg

Bruce Sutter

Cal Ripken

Tony Gwynn

Goose Gossage

 

I'm going with Tony Perez and Sutter

[bukie]

Was Ozzie Smith really that much better than, say, Omar Vizquel? The Wizard of Oz could be the worst hitter in the HOF. Of course, he's not in it for his hitting, so it's hard to say.

 

Perez, though, for sure. Sutter, Winfield arguable.

[OleMissCub]

Was Ozzie Smith really that much better than, say, Omar Vizquel? The Wizard of Oz could be the worst hitter in the HOF. Of course, he's not in it for his hitting, so it's hard to say.

 

Ozzie Smith and Vizquel are so similar, at least as far as offensive output is concerned.

 

Smith: .262/.337/.328, 9396 AB's, 2460 hits, 28 HR, 402 2B, 69 3B, 793 RBI, 580 SB

Vizquel: .273/.339/.356, 9565 AB's, 2615 hits, 77 HR, 419 2B, 71 3B, 876 RBI, 381 SB

 

So, Vizquel has more power and Ozzie more steals. Looks like a wash offensively.

[Cubinsf]

1. Dennis Eckersley

2. Dennis Eckersley

3. See Above

[TruffleShuffle]

yes, ozzie smith is the best-fielding shortstop of all time, by a pretty significant margin, which combined with respectable offense makes him a no-brainer for coopertown.

[sneakypower]

theres some names on that list i couldnt imagine anybody ever questioning their status

[SouthSideRyan]

Sutter and Perez for sure. Gossage probably doesn't belong either.

[CubInOK]

theres some names on that list i couldnt imagine anybody ever questioning their status

Seriously, Nolan Ryan not in the HOF? Also, Perry, Bench, and Jackson.

 

I gotta go with Eck and Sutter.

[sneakypower]

theres some names on that list i couldnt imagine anybody ever questioning their status

Seriously, Nolan Ryan not in the HOF? Also, Perry, Bench, and Jackson.

 

I gotta go with Eck and Sutter.

and another player not yet mentioned who's the greatest player at his position in the history of the game

[OleMissCub]

Some really unique and rare pictures:

 

Babe Ruth:

 

http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=44460&stc=1&d=1213362509

 

Ruth practicing his bunting skills for some strange reason:

 

http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=42317&stc=1&d=1210687846

 

I don't think he wants to shake President Harding's hand:

 

http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/ggbain/35800/35844v.jpg

 

Shoeless Joe:

 

http://www.blackbetsy.com/imagefarm/jj-at-the-ready-bb-magazine.jpg

 

Roger Maris and Sadaharu Oh:

 

http://images.mastronet.com/images/Auction30/photographs/39703f.jpg

 

Imagine getting a .400 hitting 2nd baseman for $700 bucks?? :-)

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17751&d=1169007429

 

Willie Mays:

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16084&d=1165456264

 

Mantle's catastrophic knee injury. Mantle was considered to be one of the fastest players ever before this injury at age 19. DiMaggio is in center:

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25214&d=1181774605

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25217&d=1181774713

 

Big Train:

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29262&stc=1&d=1189964485

 

Gehrig in college:

 

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/alumni/Magazine/images/Fall2001/GehrigCU.jpg

 

Babe wasn't the only one who drank and smoked a lot...apparently Gehrig did too:

 

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/5889/attachmentki6.jpg

 

Hank Aaron had some good ups:

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=33901&d=1199648942

 

Tris Speaker:

 

http://www.ajclay.com/PTC/pictures/102.jpg

 

Christy Mathewson:

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25418&d=1182290914

 

Before Jim Edmonds and Piazza, there was Jimmie Foxx and Ted Williams:

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=34120&d=1200178191

 

Mantle looking terribly uncomfortable with a geezerific Ty Cobb:

 

http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=35930&stc=1&d=1203359653

 

The Detroit Tigers outfield in 1915 might have been the best outfield of all time with Ty Cobb, Sam Crawford, and Bobby Veach. In 1915, Cobb led the league in runs scored and hits, Veach led in doubles, Crawford led in triples. Cobb led the league in total bases, Crawford second, and Veach in third. Veach and Crawford tied for the league lead in RBI, with Cobb third.

 

But they HATED each other and never spoke but communicated through nods. How apparent is this fact in their body language?

 

http://img01.picoodle.com/img/img01/4/2/18/f_veachcobbcrm_600f247.jpg

 

Eddie Collins:

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=36816&d=1204385210

 

Walter Johnson hitting. He hit over .400 in 1925:

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=37190&d=1204945023

 

Stan Musial's wacky stance:

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=31477&d=1195256950

 

Mantle:

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=31122&d=1194057829

 

Babe Ruth diving:

 

http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=37353&stc=1&d=1205200320

 

Ruth at Gehrig's funeral:

 

http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=37438&stc=1&d=1205271223

[SouthSideRyan]

Was Ozzie Smith really that much better than, say, Omar Vizquel? The Wizard of Oz could be the worst hitter in the HOF. Of course, he's not in it for his hitting, so it's hard to say.

 

Ozzie Smith and Vizquel are so similar, at least as far as offensive output is concerned.

 

Smith: .262/.337/.328, 9396 AB's, 2460 hits, 28 HR, 402 2B, 69 3B, 793 RBI, 580 SB

Vizquel: .273/.339/.356, 9565 AB's, 2615 hits, 77 HR, 419 2B, 71 3B, 876 RBI, 381 SB

 

So, Vizquel has more power and Ozzie more steals. Looks like a wash offensively.

 

Context. Look at the offensive environments the guys played in.

 

Cool pictures you posted, Jimmie Foxx was frikkin jacked. He'd certainly get some baseless steroid accusations thrown his way.

[OleMissCub]

Great photo of Willie Mays showing off his amazing vertical leap, which was legendary at the time:

 

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/8417/willleapka3.jpg

[TruffleShuffle]

wow on mays... those are some hops

 

musial's stance is really bizarre... if i saw someone come to the plate looking like that, i'd laugh... until i saw the results anyway.

[OleMissCub]

musial's stance is really bizarre... if i saw someone come to the plate looking like that, i'd laugh... until i saw the results anyway.

 

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/7788/stangifqf7.gif

[Electron Blue]

If you've got more great baseball pics, I'd love to see them, OMC. Where did you find all those -- probably just all over the place?

 

The Ruth/Harding one and Mantle/Cobb ones are pretty hilarious.

[Devin Dixon]

Great photos, OMC.

 

My favorites: Speaker rides a 'gator, and the Babe's "Free Willy." They are just so . . . weird.

[TruffleShuffle]

huh... i thought the toe tap was a new invention. shows what i know.

 

musial had quite the stride into that pitch.... his stance started off very narrow but it looks like the used that front leg to get a lot of his power.

[OleMissCub]

Some pictures of the big boys in uniform:

 

Joe D, Army, WWII:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/DimaggioJoeinArmy2.jpg

 

Babe Ruth, Army, WWI:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/rutharmy.jpg

 

Ted Williams, Army (WWII), Marines (Korean War). Williams flew 38 combat missions.

 

http://www.baseballbigmouth.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/williams-war.jpg

 

Grover Cleveland Alexander, Army, WWI. He suffered from extreme post traumatic stress disorder for the rest of his life.

 

http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/jpg/grover_alexander.jpg

 

Ty Cobb, Army, WWI:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/cobbarmy.jpg

 

Cobb and Christy Mathewson. They both served in the same unit (along with Branch Rickey) and were gassed pretty badly while in Europe. It ended up eventually causing Matty's death and messed with Cobb's lungs so much that his speed was cut nearly in half upon his return because he claimed he couldn't ever breath well enough to run (he averaged 61 steals in the five years before the war and averaged 17 in the five years after).

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/cobbmatty.jpg

 

Bob Feller was the first major leaguer to volunteer after Pearl Harbor. He served with the Navy in the Pacific Theater.

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/fellernavy.jpg

 

Hank Greenberg saw combat in Europe with the Army:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/greenberg.jpg

 

Willie Mays served in the Army during the Korean War and missed almost two seasons:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/mays.jpg

 

Yogi Berra, Navy, WWII:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/yogi.jpg

 

Jackie Robinson, Army, WWII:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/robinson-photo2.jpg

 

Stan Musial, Navy, WWII:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/stan.jpg

 

 

 

Other HOFers who served in the military:

 

Army

Luke Appling

Robin Roberts

Red Schoendienst

Hoyt Wilhelm

Enos Slaughter

Early Wynn

Warren Spahn (wounded at Battle of the Bulge)

Monte Irvin

 

Navy

Mickey Cochrane

Charlie Gehringer

Bob Lemon

Larry Doby

Phil Rizzuto

Billy Herman

Duke Snider

Ralph Kiner

Johnny Mize

Pee Wee Reese

 

Marine Corps

Ted Lyons

Gil Hodges (won Bronze Star in WWII)

Rod Carew

Tom Seaver

Roberto Clemente

[OleMissCub]

Most overrated player of the last 20 years?

[SouthSideRyan]

Jack Morris

[Electron Blue]

Most overrated player of the last 20 years?

 

ozzie smith

 

[/someone who never saw him play]

[/biting off more than he can chew]

[OleMissCub]

I'm gonna go with Jeter.

 

This obviously isn't to say that Jeter isn't a very, very good player, but with the hype he has gotten the last ten years, you'd think he was one of the all time greats.