2008 Cubs Picks Thread

[delroy lindo]

So dumping a truckload of money on the riskiest of commodities is the way to go?

[UK1679666180]

How many years before we're allowed to object to Wilken then?

 

Even if the draft picks don't work out, I think you can still make picks that, at the time, seem exciting, reasonable, and logical. Obviously you want things to work out. But I see it like this, if the Mets Kazmir for Victor Zambrano trade had actually worked out for the Mets, I'd still think it looked stupid at the time because logically it was. Sometimes illogical moves work and logical ones don't. We're supposed to believe Kenny Williams is an unconventional genius because trading Carlos Lee for Podsednik "brought the team a World Series victory." That trade still looks like an ugly one I wouldn't be quick to repeat.

 

I judge the drafts on how they look at the time with the information we know. There's really no point to judging them after the book has been written on the players drafted - we all know then.

 

Anyway, any high ceiling high school pitchers we could take for our annual 11th/12th round high school pitcher pick? Whatever happened with Daniel Webb? Maybe the Cubs will (ha) back a dump truck full of money up to Alex Meyer's house?

 

At least give Wilken's draft some reasonable time before it is expected to get to the majors. Not many teams have '06 draftees in the majors.

 

It takes the avg. Collegiate Junior 3.2 years to reach the majors and 4.6 for HS kids, I think that is a fair starting point whether you can call Wilken "the Dusty Baker of the scouting world".

 

Why draft Meyer, when he doesn't want to sign?

[badnews]

When it's not my money and the alternative is drafting a guy with no chance, heck yeah. What do I care? That dump truck doesn't affect me.

[RynoRules]

How many years before we're allowed to object to Wilken then?

 

Even if the draft picks don't work out, I think you can still make picks that, at the time, seem exciting, reasonable, and logical. Obviously you want things to work out. But I see it like this, if the Mets Kazmir for Victor Zambrano trade had actually worked out for the Mets, I'd still think it looked stupid at the time because logically it was. Sometimes illogical moves work and logical ones don't. We're supposed to believe Kenny Williams is an unconventional genius because trading Carlos Lee for Podsednik "brought the team a World Series victory." That trade still looks like an ugly one I wouldn't be quick to repeat.

 

I judge the drafts on how they look at the time with the information we know. There's really no point to judging them after the book has been written on the players drafted - we all know then.

 

Anyway, any high ceiling high school pitchers we could take for our annual 11th/12th round high school pitcher pick? Whatever happened with Daniel Webb? Maybe the Cubs will (ha) back a dump truck full of money up to Alex Meyer's house?

 

At least give Wilken's draft some reasonable time before it is expected to get to the majors. Not many teams have '06 draftees in the majors.

 

It takes the avg. Collegiate Junior 3.2 years to reach the majors and 4.6 for HS kids, I think that is a fair starting point whether you can call Wilken "the Dusty Baker of the scouting world".

 

Why draft Meyer, when he doesn't want to sign?

 

Please don't bother him with those facts.

[badnews]

Because I've seen ENOUGH of Colvin, and the fact that this guy dared to pull out that lamest of cards "Oh look, nobody believed about Alex Rios now I think this guy is the next Alex Rios and you dare to question the great and powerful Oz" disgusts me. And Samardzija, the awesomely athletic guy with the dump truck of money who has no baseball skills, it's the just same thing we've seen too much of for too long.

 

For most of these guys, they'll sign if the money is there.

[Chocolate Milk]

Drafts are better off being graded 3-4 years after they occur.

 

I don't understand why people say this.

What is there to not understand about this statement? It's obviously true to even the most casual observer.

Edited June 6, 2008 by Chocolate Milk

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

Because I've seen ENOUGH of Colvin, and the fact that this guy dared to pull out that lamest of cards "Oh look, nobody believed about Alex Rios now I think this guy is the next Alex Rios and you dare to question the great and powerful Oz" disgusts me. And Samardzija, the awesomely athletic guy with the dump truck of money who has no baseball skills, it's the just same thing we've seen too much of for too long.

 

For most of these guys, they'll sign if the money is there.

money post

[Transmogrified Tiger]

The thing I don't get is the comparison to stuff like Colvin. The Cubs draft so far isn't bad even when you go by 3rd party. Cashner was a consensus to go around our pick. Shafer's rankings were better than where he was picked. Flaherty was ranked in the 60's-70's, but on the other hand Carpenter cracked the top 50 for some people. The more I think about the Cerda pick the more I like it. He torched California HS ball, and he'll be a decent to above average defender at 2B when he moves there. I'm meh on Bristow, and I hate the Harrison pick, but I hardly think that's cause for ranting on the draft as a whole. Carpenter and Shafer may not be the impact potential players you were hoping for, but they are not Mark Holliman or Billy Muldowney. Don't lump together terrible picks with picks that are different than your personal ideal.

[badnews]

Please don't bother him with those facts.

 

Wow, you're just determined to stir up trouble with these petty little potshots, aren't you? We're not really talking "facts" here so much, but whatever. If you disagree with me on baseball opinions there's no reason to go where you're going here.

 

You'll notice I asked about the possible high school guys and such. Which no one really bothered to answer, but okay.

[UK1679666180]

Because I've seen ENOUGH of Colvin, and the fact that this guy dared to pull out that lamest of cards "Oh look, nobody believed about Alex Rios now I think this guy is the next Alex Rios and you dare to question the great and powerful Oz" disgusts me. And Samardzija, the awesomely athletic guy with the dump truck of money who has no baseball skills, it's the just same thing we've seen too much of for too long.

 

For most of these guys, they'll sign if the money is there.

 

Baseball doesn't work like that, there's a thing called "dollar on the muscle", every kid is given this regardless if it is above slot or below it. They have a set budget most likely, maybe since they have increased Pacific Rim scouting and signing that it has made the Cubs more geared towards slot.

[badnews]

Drafts are better off being graded 3-4 years after they occur.

 

I don't understand why people say this.

What is there to not understand about this statement? It's obviously true to even the most casual observer.

 

I understand what it means, it's so "obvious" there's really no point to say. Why talk about our season before it's over? Why talk about how Brian Roberts would look in our lineup when there has been no trade made?

 

What is there not to understand that there's nothing wrong with posting your impressions on the draft on a sports message board essentially designed for such purposes?

[UK1679666180]

Please don't bother him with those facts.

 

Wow, you're just determined to stir up trouble with these petty little potshots, aren't you? We're not really talking "facts" here so much, but whatever. If you disagree with me on baseball opinions there's no reason to go where you're going here.

 

You'll notice I asked about the possible high school guys and such. Which no one really bothered to answer, but okay.

 

You asked about high ceiling HS pitchers in the 11th and 12th rounds, who knows if they'll be there by then, or if they're even signable.

[Outshined_One]

My first impression of the draft so far is generally positive.

 

Cashner, fine, whatever. I'm skeptical that he can become an effective starter, but if he sticks at reliever, he should be good. At 19, you're not going to get the pick of the litter.

 

Flaherty...eh. It depends on where he moves. If the guy is really 6'5, he's not sticking at SS. It sounds like the guy could be good, but it all depends on his power. I haven't heard glowing remarks about his potential to develop that power. As things stand now, he could be a good super utility type.

 

I really liked the Shafer, Carpenter, and Bristow picks. All have had their share of struggles, but have very good upsides.

 

Cerda and Harrison...eh, not a fan. Undersized infielders never appeal to me.

[illiniguy]

Because I've seen ENOUGH of Colvin, and the fact that this guy dared to pull out that lamest of cards "Oh look, nobody believed about Alex Rios now I think this guy is the next Alex Rios and you dare to question the great and powerful Oz" disgusts me. And Samardzija, the awesomely athletic guy with the dump truck of money who has no baseball skills, it's the just same thing we've seen too much of for too long.

 

For most of these guys, they'll sign if the money is there.

 

Baseball doesn't work like that, there's a thing called "dollar on the muscle", every kid is given this regardless if it is above slot or below it. They have a set budget most likely, maybe since they have increased Pacific Rim scouting and signing that it has made the Cubs more geared towards slot.

 

The Cubs are on a budget? Really? You can like or not like this draft, but to argue the Chicago Cubs don't have enough money to sign top level prospects, but Tampa and KC does?

[badnews]

Because I've seen ENOUGH of Colvin, and the fact that this guy dared to pull out that lamest of cards "Oh look, nobody believed about Alex Rios now I think this guy is the next Alex Rios and you dare to question the great and powerful Oz" disgusts me. And Samardzija, the awesomely athletic guy with the dump truck of money who has no baseball skills, it's the just same thing we've seen too much of for too long.

 

For most of these guys, they'll sign if the money is there.

 

Baseball doesn't work like that, there's a thing called "dollar on the muscle", every kid is given this regardless if it is above slot or below it. They have a set budget most likely, maybe since they have increased Pacific Rim scouting and signing that it has made the Cubs more geared towards slot.

 

I don't think we know for sure, but I was throwing out a hypothetical and asking a question. Something to get some excitement about.

[Rob]

I hate the Cashner pick. There is no doubt that he was nowhere near the BPA.

 

I like the Shafer and Carpenter picks.

 

The others? I'm willing to see how they play out.

[badnews]

The thing I don't get is the comparison to stuff like Colvin. The Cubs draft so far isn't bad even when you go by 3rd party. Cashner was a consensus to go around our pick. Shafer's rankings were better than where he was picked. Flaherty was ranked in the 60's-70's, but on the other hand Carpenter cracked the top 50 for some people. The more I think about the Cerda pick the more I like it. He torched California HS ball, and he'll be a decent to above average defender at 2B when he moves there. I'm meh on Bristow, and I hate the Harrison pick, but I hardly think that's cause for ranting on the draft as a whole. Carpenter and Shafer may not be the impact potential players you were hoping for, but they are not Mark Holliman or Billy Muldowney. Don't lump together terrible picks with picks that are different than your personal ideal.

 

I don't think "rant" is totally fair. I have higher standards for the draft than most people. I don't see why WE can't be the guys every other teams envies. I said so far this wasn't the worst draft. But as usual I am disappointed.

 

I've ended up doing more ranting on people who get so defensive they go on the attack, like they some personal investment in how Wilken or Hendry and so forth are seen on the board. People are allowed to have positive first impressions but not negative ones apparently. Positive first impressions are great, negative first impressions are "jumping the gun."

[Chocolate Milk]

Drafts are better off being graded 3-4 years after they occur.

 

I don't understand why people say this.

What is there to not understand about this statement? It's obviously true to even the most casual observer.

 

I understand what it means

 

Ok, then try to understand that's he's trying to inject some perspective into this discussion.

[delroy lindo]

Higher standards for the draft than most people? This is priceless. Carry on!

[RynoRules]

Please don't bother him with those facts.

 

Wow, you're just determined to stir up trouble with these petty little potshots, aren't you? We're not really talking "facts" here so much, but whatever. If you disagree with me on baseball opinions there's no reason to go where you're going here.

 

You'll notice I asked about the possible high school guys and such. Which no one really bothered to answer, but okay.

 

The "fact" is that it takes between 3-4 years to have a decent idea of how well a draft went. To savage the decision makers at this juncture is premature.

[badnews]

Cashner was a consensus to go around our pick.

 

It's not just about the draft ranking position, because I disagree with that sometimes. Some guys always look better than others at certain spots. Justin Smoak at #11 looks a whole lot better than Jemile Weeks at #12.

 

I really liked the Shafer, Carpenter, and Bristow picks. All have had their share of struggles, but have very good upsides.

 

I honestly don't get where the Bristow upside is. From what I've read, he's one of those guys nobody but the Cubs like, he doesn't have any upside except he's a miserable failure in terms of guys who used to be Top 20 talent go. Are you saying that he has upside because he used to be considered an elite guy, when he was a high schooler 3 years ago, or is there more to it? "He's struggled but has upside" - I'm more comfortable seeing that out of a guy younger than Bristow. I understand this isn't a 2nd round pick but still, I don't see where there's enthusiasm either.

[UK1679666180]

 

The Cubs are on a budget? Really? You can like or not like this draft, but to argue the Chicago Cubs don't have enough money to sign top level prospects, but Tampa and KC does?

 

 

If the Cubs drafted as high as TB and KC, they would sign those high picks as well. If the Cubs feel Melville isn't worth his demands, why should they draft him?

 

I have no problems with the Cubs draft so far, they'll never go for 6 for 6, some unrealistic expectations in regards to the draft.

 

Yes, the Cubs have a scouting and player development budget. For what it cost to get the Korean SS and Cashman is likely the equiv. to what it'll cost to sign Melville.

[RammyFanny]

Cubs scouting director Tim Wilken is impressed with Cashner's fastball, which has topped off at 98 mph, and a curve that could nudge the radar guns to 84 mph.

Wilken said it's not a done deal that Cashner will be a reliever.

 

"We're leaving this open," Wilken said. "He's not necessarily a reliever. He could very well be a starter and a good one at that. He could do either one. We'll let the pitcher show us what he's going to do."

 

Wilken said that even though Cashner didn't sign with the Cubs last year, he was glad he could get a new and improved Cashner this season.

 

"He had some maturation and I'll bet he's 15 or 20 pounds heavier than he was last year," Wilken said. "And there a significantly different pitch coming out of his arm than there was last year."

http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/majors/organization-reports/chicago-cubs/2008/266282.html

[badnews]

Higher standards for the draft than most people? This is priceless. Carry on!

 

A lot of people are pleased if the Cubs don't have a horrible draft because they know they are very capable of it. I tend to hope for a little more than "not horrible." That's what I meant.

[salukifudd]

Did we draft anyone who is considered to have the potential of a power bat? I see some smaller IFs and RHPs, is that it so far? (not trying to flame, just asking)