2008 Cubs Picks Thread

[CubColtPacer]

Did we draft anyone who is considered to have the potential of a power bat? I see some smaller IFs and RHPs, is that it so far? (not trying to flame, just asking)

 

No. No plus power bats yet.

[badnews]

Please don't bother him with those facts.

 

Wow, you're just determined to stir up trouble with these petty little potshots, aren't you? We're not really talking "facts" here so much, but whatever. If you disagree with me on baseball opinions there's no reason to go where you're going here.

 

You'll notice I asked about the possible high school guys and such. Which no one really bothered to answer, but okay.

 

The "fact" is that it takes between 3-4 years to have a decent idea of how well a draft went. To savage the decision makers at this juncture is premature.

 

This is done in sports all the time. To make judgments on a season before it's done, premature. To make judgments on Theriot vs. Greene before the season is played, premature. To all of the speculation ever made on any sports topic, it can all be dismissed with a simple "Let's wait and see."

 

If all we did was "wait and see" we'd never have anything to discuss.

[salukifudd]

Did we draft anyone who is considered to have the potential of a power bat? I see some smaller IFs and RHPs, is that it so far? (not trying to flame, just asking)

 

No. No plus power bats yet.

 

Thanks CCP, just (hoping) wondering if I missed a pick.

[Chocolate Milk]

Please don't bother him with those facts.

 

Wow, you're just determined to stir up trouble with these petty little potshots, aren't you? We're not really talking "facts" here so much, but whatever. If you disagree with me on baseball opinions there's no reason to go where you're going here.

 

You'll notice I asked about the possible high school guys and such. Which no one really bothered to answer, but okay.

 

The "fact" is that it takes between 3-4 years to have a decent idea of how well a draft went. To savage the decision makers at this juncture is premature.

 

This is done in sports all the time.

And it's stupid.

[badnews]

 

The Cubs are on a budget? Really? You can like or not like this draft, but to argue the Chicago Cubs don't have enough money to sign top level prospects, but Tampa and KC does?

 

 

If the Cubs drafted as high as TB and KC, they would sign those high picks as well. If the Cubs feel Melville isn't worth his demands, why should they draft him?

 

I have no problems with the Cubs draft so far, they'll never go for 6 for 6, some unrealistic expectations in regards to the draft.

 

Yes, the Cubs have a scouting and player development budget. For what it cost to get the Korean SS and Cashman is likely the equiv. to what it'll cost to sign Melville.

 

I'm not shooting the messenger here, but it's difficult for me to be sympathetic to the "We don't have the money" song and dance. When it comes to throwing boatloads of money at guys I don't like, then money isn't an issue.

 

I'll still be hoping for that 11th/12th round HS pitcher that offers a little more than you'd expect from that area, even if it's not Walden/Latos/Anderson like.

[UK1679666180]

No one is saying you don't have the right to voice a premature opinion. Just like no one should say I don't have the right to call it premature.

 

Fact is, unless there is some kid that will be signed way above slot and fell b/c of injury and/or signability, the difference as far as future ceilings/talent between the Cubs' picks in those rounds and others in that round is likely very small to the point where the development system plays a larger role on whether or not they progress moreso than where they were scouted and drafted.

[badnews]

Please don't bother him with those facts.

 

Wow, you're just determined to stir up trouble with these petty little potshots, aren't you? We're not really talking "facts" here so much, but whatever. If you disagree with me on baseball opinions there's no reason to go where you're going here.

 

You'll notice I asked about the possible high school guys and such. Which no one really bothered to answer, but okay.

 

The "fact" is that it takes between 3-4 years to have a decent idea of how well a draft went. To savage the decision makers at this juncture is premature.

 

This is done in sports all the time.

And it's stupid.

 

It may be stupid to you to speculate but without stupid sports speculation this topic, this forum, this board and many like it would have no reason to exist. It just seems odd to me to attack a message board's reason for being on the message board itself.

 

Sports message boards are for speculation. We are engaged in speculation.

[UK1679666180]

 

I'm not shooting the messenger here, but it's difficult for me to be sympathetic to the "We don't have the money" song and dance. When it comes to throwing boatloads of money at guys I don't like, then money isn't an issue.

 

I'll still be hoping for that 11th/12th round HS pitcher that offers a little more than you'd expect from that area, even if it's not Walden/Latos/Anderson like.

 

It's a dream world to assume the Cubs don't have a budget in regards to signing players, regardless if it's MLB FA, international FA, or the draft.

 

You don't have to be sympathetic towards them not spend, at least be aware that is why they are not signing every soup du jour left in the draft and that budget is created well above Wilken's head.

[badnews]

Fact is, unless there is some kid that will be signed way above slot and fell b/c of injury and/or signability, the difference as far as future ceilings/talent between the Cubs' picks in those rounds and others in that round is likely very small to the point where the development system plays a larger role on whether or not they progress moreso than where they were scouted and drafted.

 

I hope that isn't meant to be reassuring?

[badnews]

It's a dream world to assume the Cubs don't have a budget in regards to signing players, regardless if it's MLB FA, international FA, or the draft.

 

You don't have to be sympathetic towards them not spend, at least be aware that is why they are not signing every soup du jour left in the draft and that budget is created well above Wilken's head.

 

Everyone has a budget, it's just a question of what it should be. Like I said, it's just a little frustrating when they have the money for Huseby or Samardzija but not for guys I'd actually be excited to see.

[UK1679666180]

It's not meant to be, but it adds something that is always overlooked when drafts don't look good after a couple of years after they happen.

 

You draft high ceiling HS kids and they fail, people complain about the risk and they're just a toolsy team looking for athletes. Draft safe kids and never get superstars and people complain about that. The common thread between those two scenarions is player development not scouting philosophies.

[imb]

I really like the Cashner pick. If there's a guy with better stuff in this draft, I haven't seen him.

 

In the meantime, can we all take a moment and lol at Darwin Barney. What round was this guy drafted in, again?

[Post Count Padder]

Back from work and read through our picks and this thread. I'm fairly pleased up to this point. I personally like the Cashner pick and I think he can rise up quickly. The other pitchers will be solid choices if they can get past injury issues (though I'm a bit wary of that, given this organization's history). The shortstops seem like nothing special, but could surprise and aren't terrible choices. Hopefully, tomorrow goes well too.

[badnews]

I'm surprised you don't see it has much to do with scouting philosophies. They seem to have some definite "quirks" that influence things.

 

The safe picks don't even seem very safe. And it seems like the Cubs always start in on the "I give up" picks a few rounds too early.

[UK1679666180]

I'm surprised you don't see it has much to do with scouting philosophies. They seem to have some definite "quirks" that influence things.

 

The Cubs have had every scouting philosophy known to man, some drafts they've put an emphasis on high ceiling athletes from HS that have bombed (98'). They've taken high ceiling college arms that have failed (02'), they taken safe college position players w/good apporaches at the plate that have failed, they've drafted overslotted college position players that have failed, they've drafted pure hitting HS kids that were supposed to be safe HS bets, etc.

[badnews]

I'm surprised you don't see it has much to do with scouting philosophies. They seem to have some definite "quirks" that influence things.

 

The Cubs have had every scouting philosophy known to man, some drafts they've put an emphasis on high ceiling athletes from HS that have bombed. They've taken high ceiling college arms that have failed, they taken safe college position players w/good apporaches at the plate that have failed, they've drafted overslotted college position players that have failed, they've drafted pure hitting HS kids that were supposed to be safe HS bets, etc.

 

What years were each of those? Some of those approaches I definitely like better than others.

 

This draft isn't horrible because I've seen drafts where the Cubs stake out their own paths and the guys aren't even on BA's Top 200 prospects or anybody's top anything, or they're all way too low. Right now I like picks that make sense at the time of the choosing. If they don't work out, you've done what you can. For example, I thought the Tony Richie pick in the, what, 5th round? how many years ago was a fine pick. It didn't work the way we'd hope, but I don't have complaints about that pick. It was sound decision making at the time.

 

But I think there were some strange reaches and then once again I think we went into "I give up for this draft" mode too quickly. Do people think the Cubs are taking the best guys (within financial considerations) at every spot in their draft? Like last year, why do you throw away a pick with Darwin Barney in the 4th round when you could have someone like, I don't know, Sean Morgan? Neither of them may do anything but one choice makes sense to me and the other doesn't.

[UK1679666180]

But I think there were some strange reaches and then once again I think we went into "I give up for this draft" mode too quickly. Do people think the Cubs are taking the best guys (within financial considerations) at every spot in their draft? Like last year, why do you throw away a pick with Darwin Barney in the 4th round when you could have someone like, I don't know, Sean Morgan? Neither of them may do anything but one choice makes sense to me and the other doesn't.

 

Does every fan think they're team are taking best guys at every position in the draft? Barney prob. fills a role, that's an example of a safe pick. I agree that I would rather see a higher ceiling guy there, but there's going to be guys like this and there's going to be high ceiling guys mixed in. TB has had a bunch safe picks and signable guys below slot mixed in too as has NYY and Boston, etc.

[Outshined_One]

I honestly don't get where the Bristow upside is. From what I've read, he's one of those guys nobody but the Cubs like, he doesn't have any upside except he's a miserable failure in terms of guys who used to be Top 20 talent go. Are you saying that he has upside because he used to be considered an elite guy, when he was a high schooler 3 years ago, or is there more to it? "He's struggled but has upside" - I'm more comfortable seeing that out of a guy younger than Bristow. I understand this isn't a 2nd round pick but still, I don't see where there's enthusiasm either.

 

My enthusiasm is two-fold...

 

1) His struggles at Auburn, to my knowledge, have not been the result of any particular injury issues.

 

2) He managed to get himself back on his feet at ECU once he became a full-time pitcher.

 

In 2005, he was considered good enough to be drafted as a pitcher in the first round, thanks to a low 90s fastball with some life and a great breaking ball (I think it was a curve?). Over two years, his stock dropped considerably because of his struggles and a lack of playing time. Once he became a full-time pitcher, he actually performed decently.

 

I'd like to think he could recapture what once made him a potential first rounder. It might not happen, but it's a similar risk to picking a guy like Shafer or Carpenter, imo.

[illiniguy]

 

The Cubs are on a budget? Really? You can like or not like this draft, but to argue the Chicago Cubs don't have enough money to sign top level prospects, but Tampa and KC does?

 

 

If the Cubs drafted as high as TB and KC, they would sign those high picks as well. If the Cubs feel Melville isn't worth his demands, why should they draft him?

 

I have no problems with the Cubs draft so far, they'll never go for 6 for 6, some unrealistic expectations in regards to the draft.

 

Yes, the Cubs have a scouting and player development budget. For what it cost to get the Korean SS and Cashman is likely the equiv. to what it'll cost to sign Melville.

Isn't it a theory of everyones that we passed on Weiters and Porcello because of high demands last year?

[UK1679666180]

No, it was assumed that they had Vitters as the BPA.

[badnews]

But I think there were some strange reaches and then once again I think we went into "I give up for this draft" mode too quickly. Do people think the Cubs are taking the best guys (within financial considerations) at every spot in their draft? Like last year, why do you throw away a pick with Darwin Barney in the 4th round when you could have someone like, I don't know, Sean Morgan? Neither of them may do anything but one choice makes sense to me and the other doesn't.

 

Does every fan think they're team are taking best guys at every position in the draft? Barney prob. fills a role, that's an example of a safe pick. I agree that I would rather see a higher ceiling guy there, but there's going to be guys like this and there's going to be high ceiling guys mixed in. TB has had a bunch safe picks and signable guys below slot mixed in too as has NYY and Boston, etc.

 

But do you think we're doing so as well as or better than other teams? I'm not unreasonable. The Red Sox, even if the middle of good drafts, make picks I don't like. Jason Place, I thought, was just a poor pick. I like the way the Dodgers draft but I didn't like the Preston Mattingly pick. The problem is we have the same kind of blah picks as those teams but not so much the stunning successes.

 

We're the never the team that wows the experts the day after. I think we should be. Every year the list of teams who had the greatest draft success the day after changes, but when it is it the Cubs? Outside validation may not be important to a lot of people, but it is to me, because I don't trust this organization in such matters, this organization is the one that continues to talk about Samardzija and how great he is while the rest of the world rolls their eyes, and hands out fat paychecks to Huseby while the rest of the world goes "Who?" I mean really. When the Rockies hand out fat checks to Dexter Fowler or the Angels to Adenhart, even if they work out you don't say "Who in the hell was that?" You don't say "Who is this Lars Anderson" guy? You don't often see teams taking guys at #14 who are slotted like 40 picks lower than that.

 

The problem seems to me is that some guys in this organization think their opinion is the only one that matters. If that's not true, that is what it looks like from the outside to me. When Baseball America says that Travis Snider is the closest high school hitter to the majors and a college-type hitter, and Tim Wilken says "Whoa whoa whoa wait a minute there fella, that guy's a fat sack of crap, he can only do one thing well, hit like a beast, we need this Tyler Colvin guy who doesn't a couple of things decently, the next Alex Rios" and the rest of the world just sort of says "Well, maybe there is a reason he says that" but no, the benefit of the doubt is worthless, and the rest of the world is always right and the seemingly insular Chicago Cubs are pretty much always wrong - come on.

 

It's a step in the right direction that we've actually heard of these guys, yes. But these seem like small steps.

[illiniguy]

No, it was assumed that they had Vitters as the BPA.

Well then that was a terrible chart they were using.

[UK1679666180]

No one is saying the Cubs have had great drafts the last two years, for me, they have been avg. For those who complain about Samardzija, BA was saying that he had 1st rd. talent, but wasn't deemed signable b/c of FB.The Cubs took the chance and it hasn't worked out. That's a case of selective memory. The Cubs had highly rated drafts in '01 and '02, only been 6 years since then and they have Soto and Theriot to show for it.

 

If Wilken preferred Colvin to Snider, it was b/c of he was trying to ignore BA, or prove to everyone he could be some sort of maverick and find that diamond in the rough, he projected Colvin to be a better player than Snider and I'm sure he liked Snider as well, not too many scouting directors would say those stupdi examples you gave regarding a player of 1st rd talent like Snider.

[illiniguy]

No one is saying the Cubs have had great drafts the last two years, for me, they have been avg. For those who complain about Samardzija, BA was saying that he had 1st rd. talent, but wasn't deemed signable b/c of FB.The Cubs took the chance and it hasn't worked out. That's a case of selective memory. The Cubs had highly rated drafts in '01 and '02, only been 6 years since then and they have Soto and Theriot to show for it.

 

If Wilken preferred Colvin to Snider, it was b/c of he was trying to ignore BA, or prove to everyone he could be some sort of maverick and find that diamond in the rough, he projected Colvin to be a better player than Snider and I'm sure he liked Snider as well, not too many scouting directors would say those stupdi examples you gave regarding a player of 1st rd talent like Snider.

Well in '06 that is fine. But last year, when you have a top 3 pick, a year later you shouldn't be happy with an average draft. The guy you take in the top 3 should at least have you excited a year later.

Edited June 6, 2008 by illiniguy

[UK1679666180]

Vitters does have me excited.