What's up with Sean Marshall?

[jersey cubs fan]

Haven't they supposedly been trying hard to trade Marquis for months now?

 

Just release him and be done with it. Nobody wants to give up players for that hump and his bag of money.

 

It may be that they were trying to trade him and his entire contract for something of value. That's unlikely to ever happen. But they could still work something out where they pay a certain amount and get a decent player in return, or pay less and basically get nobody back.

[coreyMVP]

Marshall needs to be called up sooner rather than later.

 

You can't continue to start Gallagher and concede games.

[jersey cubs fan]

Marshall needs to be called up sooner rather than later.

 

You can't continue to start Gallagher and concede games.

 

Concede games?

[C.C.]

Marshall needs to be called up sooner rather than later.

 

You can't continue to start Gallagher and concede games.

 

Gallagher didn't pitch well, but we still should've scored more then 3 runs in this ballpark with Chacon pitching. The offense was terrible last night!

[UMFan83]

Marshall needs to be called up sooner rather than later.

 

You can't continue to start Gallagher and concede games.

 

2-1 when Gallagher starts. Am I missing something here? I realize his performance doesn't necessarily dictate a 2-1 record, but he's far from causing the Cubs to concede games.

[Lefty]

I think Marquis can and will be traded soon. This is the time of year when teams have pitching injuries or know what they have already and what they need. Marquis is a decent innings eater and would actually fill a need for teams like the Orioles, Padres, Mariners and of course the Rangers.

 

On a semi related note, I was watching The Natural the other day and Marquis reminds me a lot of Fowler, the ace of the Knights pitching staff. He also looks a lot like Bivens.

 

A good friend of mine is in that movie. He is a tall doofy looking guy with big glasses. He got his SAG card by yelling "don't spill the beer" after the Knights clinched a tie for the pennant.

[nolanwood]

Marshall needs to be called up sooner rather than later.

 

You can't continue to start Gallagher and concede games.

 

2-1 when Gallagher starts. Am I missing something here? I realize his performance doesn't necessarily dictate a 2-1 record, but he's far from causing the Cubs to concede games.

 

Am I missing something here? Gallagher has started for a total of 10 innings and given up 10 runs in those innings. Granted, I'd still rather have him out there than Marquis, but Gallagher hasn't impressed me in the least thus far (and I was very excited to see him in the rotation).

[Tracer Bullet]

Marshall needs to be called up sooner rather than later.

 

You can't continue to start Gallagher and concede games.

 

2-1 when Gallagher starts. Am I missing something here? I realize his performance doesn't necessarily dictate a 2-1 record, but he's far from causing the Cubs to concede games.

 

Am I missing something here? Gallagher has started for a total of 10 innings and given up 10 runs in those innings. Granted, I'd still rather have him out there than Marquis, but Gallagher hasn't impressed me in the least thus far (and I was very excited to see him in the rotation).

 

3 starts: 15 IP, 10 ER, 13 K, 1.60 WHIP

[coreyMVP]

Marshall needs to be called up sooner rather than later.

 

You can't continue to start Gallagher and concede games.

 

2-1 when Gallagher starts. Am I missing something here? I realize his performance doesn't necessarily dictate a 2-1 record, but he's far from causing the Cubs to concede games.

 

Am I missing something here? Gallagher has started for a total of 10 innings and given up 10 runs in those innings. Granted, I'd still rather have him out there than Marquis, but Gallagher hasn't impressed me in the least thus far (and I was very excited to see him in the rotation).

That's my point. "Conceding games" was a bad choice of words, but I would not assume it is best for Marshall to replace Marquis versus Gallagher.

[jersey cubs fan]

Marshall needs to be called up sooner rather than later.

 

You can't continue to start Gallagher and concede games.

 

2-1 when Gallagher starts. Am I missing something here? I realize his performance doesn't necessarily dictate a 2-1 record, but he's far from causing the Cubs to concede games.

 

Am I missing something here? Gallagher has started for a total of 10 innings and given up 10 runs in those innings. Granted, I'd still rather have him out there than Marquis, but Gallagher hasn't impressed me in the least thus far (and I was very excited to see him in the rotation).

That's my point. "Conceding games" was a bad choice of words, but I would not assume it is best for Marshall to replace Marquis versus Gallagher.

 

It wasn't a bad choice of words, it was a ridiculous statement.

 

No, he hasn't been good, needs to be better, and should probably be replaced by Marshall next time out.

[nolanwood]

Marshall needs to be called up sooner rather than later.

 

You can't continue to start Gallagher and concede games.

 

2-1 when Gallagher starts. Am I missing something here? I realize his performance doesn't necessarily dictate a 2-1 record, but he's far from causing the Cubs to concede games.

 

Am I missing something here? Gallagher has started for a total of 10 innings and given up 10 runs in those innings. Granted, I'd still rather have him out there than Marquis, but Gallagher hasn't impressed me in the least thus far (and I was very excited to see him in the rotation).

 

3 starts: 15 IP, 10 ER, 13 K, 1.60 WHIP

 

My bad...15ip is correct.

[twothousandfive]

Just release him and be done with it. Nobody wants to give up players for that hump and his bag of money.

So, is it the money? If no other team wants the contract, the Cubs can either release him and take the hit, eat it in a trade, in which case they may get something back in value, or they can live with Marquis as a #5 starter who is paid like a #3 starter. Tribune's owner doesn't need the money -- so then the question is where does the better #5 starter for now come from?

 

Is Gallagher a better #5 starter now? Hardly, though there is every reason to believe he could be next year or even later this year. Marshall? He didn't exactly set the world on fire last year, but if it is clear he can go 5+ innings, he may well be an improvement over Marquis -- except that right now, Marshall looks more likely to replace Gallagher than Marquis.

 

Maybe the Cubs could swap #5 starters with someone else, say, Philly for Adam Eaton, Min for Boof Bonser, Wash for Odalis Perez, SD fr Randy Wolf, KC for Gil Meche? They are all major league starting pitchers, and (without going to deep on the varying stats) their career ERAs basically match what Marquis has done in the first half each of the last three years.

 

Marquis even has at least one fewer start than any of those guys this year, because he is the one in the Cubs rotation most likely to be skipped. He is major league #5 starter. Until someone else can reliably perform better than Marquis in that role, he'll stay there. Clearly he fades in the second half (though occasionally he can do a decent job after the break). The Cubs know that. Piniella lived thru it last season and mentioned it this spring. Thus they have options (Leiber, Marshall, Gallagher, Hill?) for when they need them. But to act as though Marquis isn't a major league pitcher is just silly. Six innings, three runs is a 4.50 ERA. Six inning four runs is a 6.00 ERA. Somewhere in between is where #5 starters fall. As does Marquis, the Cubs #5 starter, who gets paid a bundle by Sam Zell, who has way more than a bundle.

[Guest]

Aaaaand it appears Sean left the Iowa game with an injury.

[Outshined_One]

Is Gallagher a better #5 starter now? Hardly, though there is every reason to believe he could be next year or even later this year.

 

Frankly, with this offense performing the way it has been, the Cubs can afford to let Gallagher develop at the major league level. Perhaps he might benefit from a few more starts at AAA, but if keeping him in the majors for this season means he'll be a bit more developed come 2009 and 2010, then all the better. At the very least, there are some long term benefits to be had.

 

With Marquis...we pretty much know what to expect out of him by now. Frankly, it's pretty bad. Gallagher might be equally bad now, but I'll take the potential long term benefits over that.

[Jon]

Marshall is currently day-to-day with a hamstring injury. Since he left in the 4th last night, I'd have to believe that he's still a few starts away from making enough of a case to be called up. And it wouldn't surprise me if Hill wasn't ready until close to July.

 

I don't think Gallagher needs to be worried about being replaced in his next start or two.

[CubColtPacer]

Marshall is currently day-to-day with a hamstring injury. Since he left in the 4th last night, I'd have to believe that he's still a few starts away from making enough of a case to be called up. And it wouldn't surprise me if Hill wasn't ready until close to July.

 

I don't think Gallagher needs to be worried about being replaced in his next start or two.

 

The darkhorse in that equation is Kevin Hart though, who the Cubs left at AAA instead of Ascanio because they wanted him to keep starting. If Hart has another good start in AAA and Gallagher struggles the next time out, they may keep the merry go round spinning.

[abuck1220]

i haven't heard anything about hill's status. he was put on the 7 day DL, so i'm sure he's eligible to come off. is he still hurting or are they just giving him additional rest?

[Soul]

Marshall is currently day-to-day with a hamstring injury. Since he left in the 4th last night, I'd have to believe that he's still a few starts away from making enough of a case to be called up. And it wouldn't surprise me if Hill wasn't ready until close to July.

 

I don't think Gallagher needs to be worried about being replaced in his next start or two.

 

The darkhorse in that equation is Kevin Hart though, who the Cubs left at AAA instead of Ascanio because they wanted him to keep starting. If Hart has another good start in AAA and Gallagher struggles the next time out, they may keep the merry go round spinning.

 

I'll give Gallagher another spin. It was really that one bad inning that got him. He didn't look terrible. I was just disappointed to see us give away the game basically in a single inning for the 2nd night in a row.

 

There's no excuse for scoring that few runs off those horrible pitchers in that joke of a ballpark. So there's some blame to go around.

[Jon]

i haven't heard anything about hill's status. he was put on the 7 day DL, so i'm sure he's eligible to come off. is he still hurting or are they just giving him additional rest?

Hill will be eligible to come off the DL either today or tomorrow, but there hasn't been an indication as to when his next start will be. The Cubs haven't provided any updates on his back to the best of my knowledge.

 

Regardless, Hill has pitched a combined total of 14 innings over the last 30 days. He's not only going to have to regain effectiveness before the Cubs will call him back up, but he'll also need to be stretched out.

 

 

As for Hart, if he were a lefty, he'd have been called up. He may very well be the choice if Gallagher continues to struggle, but I don't see them making that switch at this point.

[Old Style]

Marshall is currently day-to-day with a hamstring injury.

:banghead:

[twothousandfive]

With Marquis...we pretty much know what to expect out of him by now. Frankly, it's pretty bad.

 

Except that it's not. He never had a season with a significant number of starts where he's more than 2 games under .500. Look at who else has been number 5 or better on the Cubs recently -- Rusch? Mitre? Estes? Maddux? Clement? They are all still floating around, and though Maddux is a wonder, Marquis is a clear upgrade on the others.

 

Look at it this way, if your #5 starter is two games under .500, and your #4 starter is at .500, it's reasonable to expect your team to be at least 20 games over .500, with a strong performance from the pan and the rest of the rotation. Zambrano and Dempster have held up their ends this year, the others haven't. Yet, the problem in the rotation is the number 5 starter, even though they are .500 in his starts, and he has a better ERA than Lilly?

 

There is every reason to believe Marquis will get bumped in the second half. Until then, he is performing exactly as would have been expected -- as a major league #5 starter. And no one has done enough to take that job away from him.

[CyHawk_Cub]

Is Gallagher a better #5 starter now? Hardly, though there is every reason to believe he could be next year or even later this year.

 

Frankly, with this offense performing the way it has been, the Cubs can afford to let Gallagher develop at the major league level. Perhaps he might benefit from a few more starts at AAA, but if keeping him in the majors for this season means he'll be a bit more developed come 2009 and 2010, then all the better. At the very least, there are some long term benefits to be had.

 

With Marquis...we pretty much know what to expect out of him by now. Frankly, it's pretty bad. Gallagher might be equally bad now, but I'll take the potential long term benefits over that.

 

Hmmmm :-k I've heard that rationale about another youngster....I think it was a guy actually started to show some signs of improvement, then inexplicably sat on the bench, then was tossed out w/ the dish water back to the minors..... Naaahh, I must be confusing this w/ something else...

[Tracer Bullet]

With Marquis...we pretty much know what to expect out of him by now. Frankly, it's pretty bad.

 

Except that it's not. He never had a season with a significant number of starts where he's more than 2 games under .500. Look at who else has been number 5 or better on the Cubs recently -- Rusch? Mitre? Estes? Maddux? Clement? They are all still floating around, and though Maddux is a wonder, Marquis is a clear upgrade on the others.

 

Look at it this way, if your #5 starter is two games under .500, and your #4 starter is at .500, it's reasonable to expect your team to be at least 20 games over .500, with a strong performance from the pan and the rest of the rotation. Zambrano and Dempster have held up their ends this year, the others haven't. Yet, the problem in the rotation is the number 5 starter, even though they are .500 in his starts, and he has a better ERA than Lilly?

 

There is every reason to believe Marquis will get bumped in the second half. Until then, he is performing exactly as would have been expected -- as a major league #5 starter. And no one has done enough to take that job away from him.

 

We're picking starters based on W/L record? Wow.

[samhainn77]

With Marquis...we pretty much know what to expect out of him by now. Frankly, it's pretty bad.

 

Except that it's not. He never had a season with a significant number of starts where he's more than 2 games under .500. Look at who else has been number 5 or better on the Cubs recently -- Rusch? Mitre? Estes? Maddux? Clement? They are all still floating around, and though Maddux is a wonder, Marquis is a clear upgrade on the others.

 

Look at it this way, if your #5 starter is two games under .500, and your #4 starter is at .500, it's reasonable to expect your team to be at least 20 games over .500, with a strong performance from the pan and the rest of the rotation. Zambrano and Dempster have held up their ends this year, the others haven't. Yet, the problem in the rotation is the number 5 starter, even though they are .500 in his starts, and he has a better ERA than Lilly?

 

There is every reason to believe Marquis will get bumped in the second half. Until then, he is performing exactly as would have been expected -- as a major league #5 starter. And no one has done enough to take that job away from him.

 

We're picking starters based on W/L record? Wow.

 

Well how else is one supposed to value a pitcher's worth? You act like there are other statistics (that are not team dependent) that are indicative of a pitcher's performance as an individual contributor. This

 

:blink:

Edited May 23, 2008 by samhainn77

[Sammy Sofa]

With Marquis...we pretty much know what to expect out of him by now. Frankly, it's pretty bad.

 

Except that it's not. He never had a season with a significant number of starts where he's more than 2 games under .500. Look at who else has been number 5 or better on the Cubs recently -- Rusch? Mitre? Estes? Maddux? Clement? They are all still floating around, and though Maddux is a wonder, Marquis is a clear upgrade on the others.

 

Look at it this way, if your #5 starter is two games under .500, and your #4 starter is at .500, it's reasonable to expect your team to be at least 20 games over .500, with a strong performance from the pan and the rest of the rotation. Zambrano and Dempster have held up their ends this year, the others haven't. Yet, the problem in the rotation is the number 5 starter, even though they are .500 in his starts, and he has a better ERA than Lilly?

 

There is every reason to believe Marquis will get bumped in the second half. Until then, he is performing exactly as would have been expected -- as a major league #5 starter. And no one has done enough to take that job away from him.

 

We're picking starters based on W/L record? Wow.

 

Well how else is one supposed to value a pitcher's worth? You act like there are other statistics (that are not team dependent) that are indicative of a pitcher's performance as an individual contributor.

 

:blink:

 

This should be in sarcastic green.