Lou Pinella, What the hell are you doing?

[dew1679666265]

I love how people who criticize Lou always gets told we do it in hindsight, although those of us complaining do it as the move is being made. Plain and simple the Johnson/Pie situation is undefensible. Johnson has been worse than Pie against rightys, yet he continues to start.

 

Bringing in Fox today wasn't exactly a good move, but his only other realistic option was Wuertz and he isn't much better for that situation (Marmol would have been ideal, but about the only manager out there who actually might have made that move is Bobby Cox, I'm not sure any others are currently employed who will go that far away from conventionality). The main thing I disliked was IBBing Chris Young - a young, impatient hitter who struggles with breaking balls - to get to a much more patient Connor Jackson. Young likely swings at some of those breaking pitches Fox was tossing out of the zone.

In Lou's defense on walking Young, though, it set up the double play. Lou played with fire and got singed. Luckily, the team made up for it.

 

As for Pie/Johnson, I agree Pie should be starting against more righties. I think Lou is likely babying Pie to an extreme, which can be good, but I'd like to see Felix out there at least a little more.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I love how people who criticize Lou always gets told we do it in hindsight, although those of us complaining do it as the move is being made. Plain and simple the Johnson/Pie situation is undefensible. Johnson has been worse than Pie against rightys, yet he continues to start.

 

This.

 

When we complain about the Pie/Johnson thing early on, we're told that we're overreacting and Pie isn't having his job taken away. Then later, we're told it's hindsight.

[Keener98]

I love how people who criticize Lou always gets told we do it in hindsight, although those of us complaining do it as the move is being made. Plain and simple the Johnson/Pie situation is undefensible. Johnson has been worse than Pie against rightys, yet he continues to start.

 

Bringing in Fox today wasn't exactly a good move, but his only other realistic option was Wuertz and he isn't much better for that situation (Marmol would have been ideal, but about the only manager out there who actually might have made that move is Bobby Cox, I'm not sure any others are currently employed who will go that far away from conventionality). The main thing I disliked was IBBing Chris Young - a young, impatient hitter who struggles with breaking balls - to get to a much more patient Connor Jackson. Young likely swings at some of those breaking pitches Fox was tossing out of the zone.

In Lou's defense on walking Young, though, it set up the double play. Lou played with fire and got singed. Luckily, the team made up for it.

 

As for Pie/Johnson, I agree Pie should be starting against more righties. I think Lou is likely babying Pie to an extreme, which can be good, but I'd like to see Felix out there at least a little more.

 

Babying? Without the rain today Felix was going to sit 3 straight games, 2 of which were against rightys, I call that screwing, not babying.

[dew1679666265]

I love how people who criticize Lou always gets told we do it in hindsight, although those of us complaining do it as the move is being made. Plain and simple the Johnson/Pie situation is undefensible. Johnson has been worse than Pie against rightys, yet he continues to start.

 

Bringing in Fox today wasn't exactly a good move, but his only other realistic option was Wuertz and he isn't much better for that situation (Marmol would have been ideal, but about the only manager out there who actually might have made that move is Bobby Cox, I'm not sure any others are currently employed who will go that far away from conventionality). The main thing I disliked was IBBing Chris Young - a young, impatient hitter who struggles with breaking balls - to get to a much more patient Connor Jackson. Young likely swings at some of those breaking pitches Fox was tossing out of the zone.

In Lou's defense on walking Young, though, it set up the double play. Lou played with fire and got singed. Luckily, the team made up for it.

 

As for Pie/Johnson, I agree Pie should be starting against more righties. I think Lou is likely babying Pie to an extreme, which can be good, but I'd like to see Felix out there at least a little more.

 

Babying? Without the rain today Felix was going to sit 3 straight games, 2 of which were against rightys, I call that screwing, not babying.

 

Babying - going to an extreme to make sure he doesn't get his confidence hurt by struggles at the age of 23. He's been working with him on the side and is putting him in for some defensive replacements and pinch running situations. Thus, he's getting some playing time and getting used to being in the majors for a season without the pressure (either internally or externally) to produce.

He's likely taking the failure of a player like Corey Patterson as a reason to be extremely careful with Pie's development.

 

I'm not arguing it's the best way, but I think that's what he's doing. It's the only thing that would explain all the time he's put into working with Felix on the side.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

So he's decided that Pie's feelings will be least hurt by being benched behind an inferior player after being told he was the everyday centerfielder?

[dew1679666265]

So he's decided that Pie's feelings will be least hurt by being benched behind an inferior player after being told he was the everyday centerfielder?

 

No, the thinking is that he'll likely struggle this season and Lou wants him to take it one step at a time to keep his confidence up. Get used to the majors this season and then hopefully be ready to take over full time later this year or (more likely) next.

 

And, if this is Lou's strategy, do you really think he hasn't talked to Pie about it at all? It was quite clear early on that his patience was almost non-existent and maybe Lou wants to make sure it's improved before handing the job over to him.

 

I've said before, I'd like to see Pie play more against righties, but I can see the merit in this strategy. If nothing else, it should help him avoid the boos of riled up Cub fans that CPatt endured (and ultimately succumbed to).

 

It's the most logical conclusion I can draw from Lou's comments, him working personally with Pie and his bringing in help to work with Felix.

[TruffleShuffle]

the cubs are #1 in baseball in runs scored, #3 in batting avg, #1 in obp, #5 in slugging, #2 in ops. if you're gonna break a guy into the lineup, having him surrounded by good players is a smart place to do it.

[SouthSideRyan]

The thing on Fox that is just so ludicrous is that it was deemed appropriate to pitch him in a tie game with the bases loaded. But with a 5 run lead and nobody on, he couldn't come in??

 

Marmol's probably unavailable tomorrow(at least he should be) because of that dopey move on Saturday. There's simply no defense for that.

[dew1679666265]

the cubs are #1 in baseball in runs scored, #3 in batting avg, #1 in obp, #5 in slugging, #2 in ops. if you're gonna break a guy into the lineup, having him surrounded by good players is a smart place to do it.

 

Honestly, I think Lou is likely more concerned with Pie's mentality than with how he'll fit in the lineup. If he goes out there and struggles badly - even if it doesn't have a huge impact on the offense - it'll hurt his confidence. Lou is likely trying to protect that.

 

Again, though, I agree he should definitely be getting more at bats.

[dew1679666265]

The thing on Fox that is just so ludicrous is that it was deemed appropriate to pitch him in a tie game with the bases loaded. But with a 5 run lead and nobody on, he couldn't come in??

 

Marmol's probably unavailable tomorrow(at least he should be) because of that dopey move on Saturday. There's simply no defense for that.

 

That's what confuses me more about Lou than anything else right now. Why in the world he's using Marmol in insignificant spots is utterly confusing.

[TruffleShuffle]

the cubs are #1 in baseball in runs scored, #3 in batting avg, #1 in obp, #5 in slugging, #2 in ops. if you're gonna break a guy into the lineup, having him surrounded by good players is a smart place to do it.

 

Honestly, I think Lou is likely more concerned with Pie's mentality than with how he'll fit in the lineup. If he goes out there and struggles badly - even if it doesn't have a huge impact on the offense - it'll hurt his confidence. Lou is likely trying to protect that.

 

i understand the argument, but i think the confidence thing is overrated. mike schmidt didn't hit much his first year, and he turned out fine. dustin pedroia was awful for his first month with the red sox. i think that a lack of consistent playing time against major league pitching will be more harmful to his development then any loss in "confidence."

[CubColtPacer]

One thing I've liked the last couple days is Lou using Marquis to pinch-run for Ward. That's a needed thing to do, but there's no real reason why you need to waste a bat just to pinch-run. When you only have 4 bench players to substitute in (Blanco only comes up if the Cubs have run out of players in extra innings), you need to find other ways of doing things so to not run out of players quite as much. Marquis as the pinch-runner is a very good use of his available resources.

[dew1679666265]

the cubs are #1 in baseball in runs scored, #3 in batting avg, #1 in obp, #5 in slugging, #2 in ops. if you're gonna break a guy into the lineup, having him surrounded by good players is a smart place to do it.

 

Honestly, I think Lou is likely more concerned with Pie's mentality than with how he'll fit in the lineup. If he goes out there and struggles badly - even if it doesn't have a huge impact on the offense - it'll hurt his confidence. Lou is likely trying to protect that.

 

i understand the argument, but i think the confidence thing is overrated. mike schmidt didn't hit much his first year, and he turned out fine. dustin pedroia was awful for his first month with the red sox. i think that a lack of consistent playing time against major league pitching will be more harmful to his development then any loss in "confidence."

 

I think it depends largely on the player. Pie, much like CPatt, is very underdeveloped and lacks good plate discipline. I have little doubt he'll eventually hit (he has at every other level) but working him in slowly may be the better course of action in this particular case.

 

The comparisons to Schmidt and Pedroia, for example, are flawed in that they were both patient, disciplined hitters through the minors. Though they struggled, both still had decent to good OBPs early on...Pie is not very disciplined at the plate.

[dew1679666265]

One thing I've liked the last couple days is Lou using Marquis to pinch-run for Ward. That's a needed thing to do, but there's no real reason why you need to waste a bat just to pinch-run. When you only have 4 bench players to substitute in (Blanco only comes up if the Cubs have run out of players in extra innings), you need to find other ways of doing things so to not run out of players quite as much. Marquis as the pinch-runner is a very good use of his available resources.

 

This is a good point. No sense in wasting a bench player when you have a good pinch runner in Marquis (and should he get hurt, it's no great loss).

[TruffleShuffle]

One thing I've liked the last couple days is Lou using Marquis to pinch-run for Ward. That's a needed thing to do, but there's no real reason why you need to waste a bat just to pinch-run. When you only have 4 bench players to substitute in (Blanco only comes up if the Cubs have run out of players in extra innings), you need to find other ways of doing things so to not run out of players quite as much. Marquis as the pinch-runner is a very good use of his available resources.

 

This is a good point. No sense in wasting a bench player when you have a good pinch runner in Marquis (and should he get hurt, it's no great loss).

 

plus there is the outside chance that marquis will hurt himself. all in all, a lot of positives here.

[dew1679666265]

One thing I've liked the last couple days is Lou using Marquis to pinch-run for Ward. That's a needed thing to do, but there's no real reason why you need to waste a bat just to pinch-run. When you only have 4 bench players to substitute in (Blanco only comes up if the Cubs have run out of players in extra innings), you need to find other ways of doing things so to not run out of players quite as much. Marquis as the pinch-runner is a very good use of his available resources.

 

This is a good point. No sense in wasting a bench player when you have a good pinch runner in Marquis (and should he get hurt, it's no great loss).

 

plus there is the outside chance that marquis will hurt himself. all in all, a lot of positives here.

 

:lol:

 

I'd actually rather him not get hurt...there's still the chance we can deal him at the deadline if he's healthy and hasn't hit one of his horrible months yet.

[Careless]

One thing I've liked the last couple days is Lou using Marquis to pinch-run for Ward. That's a needed thing to do, but there's no real reason why you need to waste a bat just to pinch-run. When you only have 4 bench players to substitute in (Blanco only comes up if the Cubs have run out of players in extra innings), you need to find other ways of doing things so to not run out of players quite as much. Marquis as the pinch-runner is a very good use of his available resources.

Yep, it's a decent use of the resources he has. It makes me wonder, aside from Marquis and Z, what pitchers do we have with decent speed?

[dew1679666265]

One thing I've liked the last couple days is Lou using Marquis to pinch-run for Ward. That's a needed thing to do, but there's no real reason why you need to waste a bat just to pinch-run. When you only have 4 bench players to substitute in (Blanco only comes up if the Cubs have run out of players in extra innings), you need to find other ways of doing things so to not run out of players quite as much. Marquis as the pinch-runner is a very good use of his available resources.

Yep, it's a decent use of the resources he has. It makes me wonder, aside from Marquis and Z, what pitchers do we have with decent speed?

 

Starters? Maybe Gallagher. The rest are either old (Lieber, Lilly) or don't appear to be fast (Hill).

[CubColtPacer]

One thing I've liked the last couple days is Lou using Marquis to pinch-run for Ward. That's a needed thing to do, but there's no real reason why you need to waste a bat just to pinch-run. When you only have 4 bench players to substitute in (Blanco only comes up if the Cubs have run out of players in extra innings), you need to find other ways of doing things so to not run out of players quite as much. Marquis as the pinch-runner is a very good use of his available resources.

Yep, it's a decent use of the resources he has. It makes me wonder, aside from Marquis and Z, what pitchers do we have with decent speed?

 

The next one would be Marmol.

 

After that, it's a tough question. Dempster maybe? or Wood? They're all pretty terrible at that point, although there's probably one random reliever that's a much better baserunner than we realize.

[Sammy Sofa]

One thing I've liked the last couple days is Lou using Marquis to pinch-run for Ward. That's a needed thing to do, but there's no real reason why you need to waste a bat just to pinch-run. When you only have 4 bench players to substitute in (Blanco only comes up if the Cubs have run out of players in extra innings), you need to find other ways of doing things so to not run out of players quite as much. Marquis as the pinch-runner is a very good use of his available resources.

 

This is a good point. No sense in wasting a bench player when you have a good pinch runner in Marquis (and should he get hurt, it's no great loss).

 

plus there is the outside chance that marquis will hurt himself. all in all, a lot of positives here.

 

:lol:

 

I'd actually rather him not get hurt...there's still the chance we can deal him at the deadline if he's healthy and hasn't hit one of his horrible months yet.

 

Too late.

 

Lou being "better" than Dusty is like how getting a D+ or a C- is technically better than getting an F.

 

I am baffled as to why Fontenot remians the goto guy first off the bench in situations where Cedeno would be infinitely better offensively and defensively.

[Guest]

One thing I've liked the last couple days is Lou using Marquis to pinch-run for Ward. That's a needed thing to do, but there's no real reason why you need to waste a bat just to pinch-run. When you only have 4 bench players to substitute in (Blanco only comes up if the Cubs have run out of players in extra innings), you need to find other ways of doing things so to not run out of players quite as much. Marquis as the pinch-runner is a very good use of his available resources.

Yep, it's a decent use of the resources he has. It makes me wonder, aside from Marquis and Z, what pitchers do we have with decent speed?

 

The next one would be Marmol.

 

After that, it's a tough question. Dempster maybe? or Wood? They're all pretty terrible at that point, although there's probably one random reliever that's a much better baserunner than we realize.

We could call up Samardzija

[TruffleShuffle]

I am baffled as to why Fontenot remians the goto guy first off the bench in situations where Cedeno would be infinitely better offensively and defensively.

 

PECOTA projects fontenot to be more productive than cedeno offensively.

[Careless]

One thing I've liked the last couple days is Lou using Marquis to pinch-run for Ward. That's a needed thing to do, but there's no real reason why you need to waste a bat just to pinch-run. When you only have 4 bench players to substitute in (Blanco only comes up if the Cubs have run out of players in extra innings), you need to find other ways of doing things so to not run out of players quite as much. Marquis as the pinch-runner is a very good use of his available resources.

Yep, it's a decent use of the resources he has. It makes me wonder, aside from Marquis and Z, what pitchers do we have with decent speed?

 

The next one would be Marmol.

 

After that, it's a tough question. Dempster maybe? or Wood? They're all pretty terrible at that point, although there's probably one random reliever that's a much better baserunner than we realize.

dempster is really slow. Pitchers are bizarrely slow in general. Hill and Lilly are both not much faster than Ward, which is sort of pathetic. You're almost never going to use a RP as a PR, so it's effectively limited to SP, I suppose

 

Clement always ran like he weighed 400 lbs, making him my favorite pitcher/runner

[Sammy Sofa]

I am baffled as to why Fontenot remians the goto guy first off the bench in situations where Cedeno would be infinitely better offensively and defensively.

 

PECOTA projects fontenot to be more productive than cedeno offensively.

 

Really? Damn.

 

Are you sure it wasn't actually just Bill Pecota going bonkers?

 

Well, still, it flies in the face of Lou's "playing the hot hand" BS. Outside of like 2 games, Cedeno easily has had the much "hotter hand."

[dew1679666265]

One thing I've liked the last couple days is Lou using Marquis to pinch-run for Ward. That's a needed thing to do, but there's no real reason why you need to waste a bat just to pinch-run. When you only have 4 bench players to substitute in (Blanco only comes up if the Cubs have run out of players in extra innings), you need to find other ways of doing things so to not run out of players quite as much. Marquis as the pinch-runner is a very good use of his available resources.

 

This is a good point. No sense in wasting a bench player when you have a good pinch runner in Marquis (and should he get hurt, it's no great loss).

 

plus there is the outside chance that marquis will hurt himself. all in all, a lot of positives here.

 

:lol:

 

I'd actually rather him not get hurt...there's still the chance we can deal him at the deadline if he's healthy and hasn't hit one of his horrible months yet.

 

Too late.

 

He was pretty average last month and has had one start this month. He's nowhere near the bad Jason Marquis yet.

 

Lou being "better" than Dusty is like how getting a D+ or a C- is technically better than getting an F.

 

I'd probably give Lou a C to C+ at this point. Marmol's odd usage is my biggest fault to him.

 

I am baffled as to why Fontenot remians the goto guy first off the bench in situations where Cedeno would be infinitely better offensively and defensively.

 

I'm of the mind that the more at-bats Cedeno gets, the worse his numbers will be, so I don't have a terrible problem with this. Hopefully I'm wrong, but I'm not real comfortable in Ronny yet.