hill to be skipped; injured in 5/16 AAA start

[CubColtPacer]

Cameron will be back for the Cubs series so you need to add him to the mix.

 

Career vs Marquis - .182/.250/.273/.523 in 11 AB.

Career vs Hill - .500/.500/1.700/2.200 in 10 AB.

 

That's a good point. After watching Cameron bat against Hill last year, I'd rather not see Hill pitch against him if we can possibly help it. Add in the rest of the Brewers great offense against left-handers, and I'm glad the Cubs are avoiding Hill against the Brewers.

 

Skipping his start though is ridiculous. Most of the benefit you get from missing Hill in the Brewers series is lost by losing a start from one of your better pitchers. I hope they re-think this part of the plan. Start him Friday night against St. Louis. That's at least only pushing his start back two days.

 

I think though that Marquis against Milwaukee and Hill against St. Louis will give you better combined results then the other way around.

[cheapseats]

I was pretty harsh on the organization for the last time Hill was skipped, because it was asinine. I still don't get the whole "pull him after five innings or the first sign of trouble" kid gloves, either.

 

But this isn't really a "skipping," it's a simple, smart rotation shuffle for matchup purposes. The Brewers lineup, along with the Cubs', is one of the most brutal in the NL on lefty starters. And getting Zambrano an extra start against our true rivals for the division, the Brewers, is a smart move.

 

I'm not sure if they were really being smart, or if they are still idiots about Hill and idiot-lucked their way into the right decision, but this was the right decision.q

 

Completely agree. If Marquis and Dempster are going to be in the rotation, they should be pitching against the Brewers.

 

The handling of Hill, like almost everything else Lou has done this year, has been stupid, but this makes a lot of sense.

[mhuber92211]

so if Hill needs to work on Mechanics to get back his command would that be a reasonable cause to skip a start?

 

Perhaps this is the case here? It is a fairly feasible sitaution

[VanceJergins]

so if Hill needs to work on Mechanics to get back his command would that be a reasonable cause to skip a start?

 

Perhaps this is the case here? It is a fairly feasible sitaution

 

Why are people still acting like Hill is struggling?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

so if Hill needs to work on Mechanics to get back his command would that be a reasonable cause to skip a start?

 

If your command and mechanics are getting major-league hitters out to the tune of a sub-4.00 ERA, they don't need work.

[17 Seconds]

so if Hill needs to work on Mechanics to get back his command would that be a reasonable cause to skip a start?

 

Perhaps this is the case here? It is a fairly feasible sitaution

 

Why are people still acting like Hill is struggling?

 

Oh come on. I'm not at all a Rich Hill hater, but it's obvious he's been struggling to at least a certain extent this season. Yeah his era is fine, but his 1.42 WHIP, his 14 walks in 19 IP, and his short outings (although he probably could have gone deeper in a couple) show that he certainly is having problems. If he keeps pitching like he is right now, that ERA isn't going to stay at 3.79 very long. Eventually people are going to start cashing in on all those baserunners.

 

That being said, I certainly don't want him skipped and I absolutely wouldn't even consider taking him out of the rotation anytime soon. I still think he ends up being the second best starter on the staff this season, but don't act like he doesn't have some issues right now.

[17 Seconds]

so if Hill needs to work on Mechanics to get back his command would that be a reasonable cause to skip a start?

 

If your command and mechanics are getting major-league hitters out to the tune of a sub-4.00 ERA, they don't need work.

 

That's the problem, he's not "getting hitters out to the tune of a sub 4.00 era", he's getting hitters out to the tune of a 1.42 WHIP. Teams are just leaving a ton of guys on base against Hill, and that won't last forever. Like I said, I don't want him skipped and I think he'll be fine, but he needs to figure out where his command has gone or that ERA is going to start to rise. I mean, a 1.42 WHIP is Jason Marquis territory.

[mhuber92211]

I thought I read on this board that ERA was about as good as BA to judge talent.

 

Did I read that incorrectly?

[imb]

I thought I read on this board that ERA was about as good as BA to judge talent.

 

Did I read that incorrectly?

 

it's not really about judging talent, it's about judging production. Looking at just ERA after four or five starts is going to give you so incomplete a picture that it's basically useless. You wouldn't look at a guy's OPS after five games and say "well, that tells us all we need to know."

 

Hill hasn't given up a ton of runs, but with as many baserunners as he's allowing, it's by the grace of kent that he hasn't.

 

I really think that the Cubs are worried about Hill's confidence, rightly or wrongly. They're pulling him after 5 innings or 80 pitches in games where he may not have pitched well but hasn't allowed a lot of runs, they're skipping him in a tough matchup. I think they're convinced that his mechanical issues are confidence based and they are going to do their damnedest to keep him from getting smacked around.

[17 Seconds]

Man, the Cubs offense is going to struggle tomorrow when they have to face Odalis Perez. I mean, I know his WHIP is 1.54, but his ERA is 3.38! Dude is lights out!

[Tracer Bullet]

I thought I read on this board that ERA was about as good as BA to judge talent.

 

Did I read that incorrectly?

 

it's not really about judging talent, it's about judging production. Looking at just ERA after four or five starts is going to give you so incomplete a picture that it's basically useless. You wouldn't look at a guy's OPS after five games and say "well, that tells us all we need to know."

 

Hill hasn't given up a ton of runs, but with as many baserunners as he's allowing, it's by the grace of kent that he hasn't.

 

I really think that the Cubs are worried about Hill's confidence, rightly or wrongly. They're pulling him after 5 innings or 80 pitches in games where he may not have pitched well but hasn't allowed a lot of runs, they're skipping him in a tough matchup. I think they're convinced that his mechanical issues are confidence based and they are going to do their damnedest to keep him from getting smacked around.

 

Nail, meet hammer.

[jersey cubs fan]

so if Hill needs to work on Mechanics to get back his command would that be a reasonable cause to skip a start?

 

Perhaps this is the case here? It is a fairly feasible sitaution

 

Why are people still acting like Hill is struggling?

 

Oh come on. I'm not at all a Rich Hill hater, but it's obvious he's been struggling to at least a certain extent this season. Yeah his era is fine, but his 1.42 WHIP, his 14 walks in 19 IP, and his short outings (although he probably could have gone deeper in a couple) show that he certainly is having problems. If he keeps pitching like he is right now, that ERA isn't going to stay at 3.79 very long. Eventually people are going to start cashing in on all those baserunners.

 

That being said, I certainly don't want him skipped and I absolutely wouldn't even consider taking him out of the rotation anytime soon. I still think he ends up being the second best starter on the staff this season, but don't act like he doesn't have some issues right now.

 

I think the issue is he struggled big time in one start, and that skews his stats. He walked four in Colorado, but that is a really tough place to pitch. He's given up very few hits the last two outings and his numbers don't look nearly as bad as they do including the Pittsburgh game. I wouldn't say he's struggling. He's not thriving by any stretch, but he'd doing alright and will most likely improve as the season goes along.

[rocket]

so if lilly was scheduled to come up against the brewers, would they have skipped him?

[UK1679666180]

so if lilly was scheduled to come up against the brewers, would they have skipped him?

 

I would say no, despite the fact I'm more concerned about his dead arm early on than Hill's lack of fortitude.

[cheapseats]

so if lilly was scheduled to come up against the brewers, would they have skipped him?

 

Probably not, but they should.

[CubinNY]

I would have skipped Hill in Colorado and pitched him in DC.

 

This is not a big deal, but is pretty stupid.

[cheapseats]

For those with BP subscriptions:

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2633

 

There's no evidence that a set rotation offers any health benefit to starting pitchers.

 

It would make sense to line things up so that Zambrano, Dempster, and Lieber face the Brewers while using Hill, Lilly, and Marshall against the Reds.

[CubColtPacer]

They ended up putting Hill in the Friday night slot, which means they're only moving him 2 days back from when he was scheduled originally. That's more of a shuffling the order than a skipped start IMO. There is still a potential that the Cubs could skip him if they have to use him out of the bullpen though, which I don't particularly like and I hope they only use if they are really desperate.

[Tracer Bullet]

They ended up putting Hill in the Friday night slot, which means they're only moving him 2 days back from when he was scheduled originally. That's more of a shuffling the order than a skipped start IMO. There is still a potential that the Cubs could skip him if they have to use him out of the bullpen though, which I don't particularly like and I hope they only use if they are really desperate.

 

It's 8 days off and every pitcher on the team but Lilly will have pitched 2 games in between Hill's starts. He's being skipped. I can't believe there's this much of a dispute as to whether it's a "skip" or a "shuffle."

[CubColtPacer]

They ended up putting Hill in the Friday night slot, which means they're only moving him 2 days back from when he was scheduled originally. That's more of a shuffling the order than a skipped start IMO. There is still a potential that the Cubs could skip him if they have to use him out of the bullpen though, which I don't particularly like and I hope they only use if they are really desperate.

 

It's 8 days off and every pitcher on the team but Lilly will have pitched 2 games in between Hill's starts. He's being skipped. I can't believe there's this much of a dispute as to whether it's a "skip" or a "shuffle."

 

I stand corrected. For some reason I thought that Hill pitched on Thursday, not Wednesday. And you're right, that pushes it over the line into a skip IMO.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I think people are cheating a bit using WHIP to judge Hill at the moment, sort of like how BA equivocates to assume all hits are equal.

 

If we want to use peripherals, Hill's walk totals are unacceptable, his K rate is adequate and his HR rate is solid. That's a mixed picture at worst.

[abuck1220]

we're gonna need to update the brewers vs. righties and marquis vs. brewers numbers.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

This was a move of pure genius.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

This was a move of pure genius.

 

Results-oriented thinking is tempting, but the move was right or wrong regardless of Marquis' performance tonight.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

This was a move of pure genius.

 

Results-oriented thinking is tempting, but the move was right or wrong regardless of Marquis' performance tonight.

 

It was the wrong move because Marquis sucks...tonight, most nights, and usually twice on Sundays.