Re: NBA Playoffs

[Exile on Waveland]

In what way did Kobe have a better season than LeBron? LeBron scored more (30-28.3), assisted more (7.2-5.4), rebounded more (7.9-6.3), blocked more shots (1.08-.49), and shot a higher percentage (.484-.459). Steals were even (1.84-1.84). Kobe did shot better from the foul line (.840-.712) and from 3 (.361-.315). LeBron's PER was also substantially higher (29.23-24.3). LeBron also has worse teammates and, as far as I remember, never publicly pouted, demanded a trade or trashed his teammates. Kobe does, obviously, play on a superior team in the superior conference.

 

Outside of people thinking Kobe deserves an MVP at some point, I'm not sure what he's done this year to deserve it over LeBron.

[Guest]

In what way did Kobe have a better season than LeBron? LeBron scored more (30-28.3), assisted more (7.2-5.4), rebounded more (7.9-6.3), blocked more shots (1.08-.49), and shot a higher percentage (.484-.459). Steals were even (1.84-1.84). Kobe did shot better from the foul line (.840-.712) and from 3 (.361-.315). LeBron's PER was also substantially higher (29.23-24.3). LeBron also has worse teammates and, as far as I remember, never publicly pouted, demanded a trade or trashed his teammates. Kobe does, obviously, play on a superior team in the superior conference.

 

Outside of people thinking Kobe deserves an MVP at some point, I'm not sure what he's done this year to deserve it over LeBron.

 

Helped his team get the No. 1 seed in the playoffs in the far, far tougher conference despite a number of injuries?

[imb]

Lebron vs. Kobe is a tough call, because I think Kobe is a better player, but Lebron's statistics are mind blowing

[Exile on Waveland]

In what way did Kobe have a better season than LeBron? LeBron scored more (30-28.3), assisted more (7.2-5.4), rebounded more (7.9-6.3), blocked more shots (1.08-.49), and shot a higher percentage (.484-.459). Steals were even (1.84-1.84). Kobe did shot better from the foul line (.840-.712) and from 3 (.361-.315). LeBron's PER was also substantially higher (29.23-24.3). LeBron also has worse teammates and, as far as I remember, never publicly pouted, demanded a trade or trashed his teammates. Kobe does, obviously, play on a superior team in the superior conference.

 

Outside of people thinking Kobe deserves an MVP at some point, I'm not sure what he's done this year to deserve it over LeBron.

 

Helped his team get the No. 1 seed in the playoffs in the far, far tougher conference despite a number of injuries?

 

So the MVP should invariably go to the best player on the team with the best record in the best conference?

[Guest]

In what way did Kobe have a better season than LeBron? LeBron scored more (30-28.3), assisted more (7.2-5.4), rebounded more (7.9-6.3), blocked more shots (1.08-.49), and shot a higher percentage (.484-.459). Steals were even (1.84-1.84). Kobe did shot better from the foul line (.840-.712) and from 3 (.361-.315). LeBron's PER was also substantially higher (29.23-24.3). LeBron also has worse teammates and, as far as I remember, never publicly pouted, demanded a trade or trashed his teammates. Kobe does, obviously, play on a superior team in the superior conference.

 

Outside of people thinking Kobe deserves an MVP at some point, I'm not sure what he's done this year to deserve it over LeBron.

 

Helped his team get the No. 1 seed in the playoffs in the far, far tougher conference despite a number of injuries?

 

So the MVP should invariably go to the best player on the team with the best record in the best conference?

 

Nope. But you asked what else Kobe's done to deserve it over LeBron. I don't think those are the sole or even main reasons Kobe should get it but you have to consider those factors. Like I said, they are by no means the most important factors but they can't be ignored.

[Andy]

I don't see how the MVP is not CP3, but I can live with it if Kobe gets the "he should have at least one" vote. LeBron in any other year would probably be the runaway, and I expect him to stock his shelves with them starting next year.

[illiniguy]

In what way did Kobe have a better season than LeBron? LeBron scored more (30-28.3), assisted more (7.2-5.4), rebounded more (7.9-6.3), blocked more shots (1.08-.49), and shot a higher percentage (.484-.459). Steals were even (1.84-1.84). Kobe did shot better from the foul line (.840-.712) and from 3 (.361-.315). LeBron's PER was also substantially higher (29.23-24.3). LeBron also has worse teammates and, as far as I remember, never publicly pouted, demanded a trade or trashed his teammates. Kobe does, obviously, play on a superior team in the superior conference.

 

Outside of people thinking Kobe deserves an MVP at some point, I'm not sure what he's done this year to deserve it over LeBron.

 

Helped his team get the No. 1 seed in the playoffs in the far, far tougher conference despite a number of injuries?

Get out of here with that. Find me one guy on LeBron's team that would even crack the Laker's rotation. LeBron is the MVP in my book. That team is the Heat if he gets hurt.

[rawaction]

LeBron hasn't done anything this year that Kobe hasn't done in past years. Lebron's season has been an awful lot like Kobe's 02-03. And while the Cavs supporting cast is much worse than the Lakers, remember that the Lakers were #1 west before Gasol. Sure Bynum was having a good year to that point. But is Bynum, Odom, Fisher, Radomonovich any better than Gibson, Hughes, Gooden, Ilgauskas? Kobe's scoring and rebounds were only down because they could be with the Lakers still winning. Notice in March Kobe scored by far the most points he scored in any other month? Notice he had more boards in March than in any other month? Kobe put up 31.5, 7.7, and 5.8 in March. Also see that he shot the ball 60 more times than he did in other months? That's because Bynum was out and Gasol missed about 3 weeks worth of time.

[illiniguy]

LeBron hasn't done anything this year that Kobe hasn't done in past years. Lebron's season has been an awful lot like Kobe's 02-03. And while the Cavs supporting cast is much worse than the Lakers, remember that the Lakers were #1 west before Gasol. Sure Bynum was having a good year to that point. But is Bynum, Odom, Fisher, Radomonovich any better than Gibson, Hughes, Gooden, Ilgauskas? Kobe's scoring and rebounds were only down because they could be with the Lakers still winning. Notice in March Kobe scored by far the most points he scored in any other month? Notice he had more boards in March than in any other month? Kobe put up 31.5, 7.7, and 5.8 in March. Also see that he shot the ball 60 more times than he did in other months? That's because Bynum was out and Gasol missed about 3 weeks worth of time.

I also think that a few times Kobe should have won the MVP, but didn't because of politics. But, that is just my opinion.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

LeBron hasn't done anything this year that Kobe hasn't done in past years.

 

LeBron had 58 more assists, 28 more rebounds, and 14 more blocks than any season Kobe has ever had.

[Guest]

LeBron hasn't done anything this year that Kobe hasn't done in past years. Lebron's season has been an awful lot like Kobe's 02-03. And while the Cavs supporting cast is much worse than the Lakers, remember that the Lakers were #1 west before Gasol. Sure Bynum was having a good year to that point. But is Bynum, Odom, Fisher, Radomonovich any better than Gibson, Hughes, Gooden, Ilgauskas? Kobe's scoring and rebounds were only down because they could be with the Lakers still winning. Notice in March Kobe scored by far the most points he scored in any other month? Notice he had more boards in March than in any other month? Kobe put up 31.5, 7.7, and 5.8 in March. Also see that he shot the ball 60 more times than he did in other months? That's because Bynum was out and Gasol missed about 3 weeks worth of time.

 

I'd say that the Lakers' rotation is better than the Cavs. I'd take Odom over any of the four Cavs guys you listed without question and probably Bynum as well. But it's not so much better that the two shouldn't even be compared.

 

The big thing, as you addressed, is Pau Gasol. People get all caught up in that trade but like you said, the Lakers were tops in the West before Gasol. They were 30-16 when Pau played in his first game and he did only play in 27 games with the Lakers. So for 2/3 of the season, the Lakers had to deal without him.

[illiniguy]

LeBron hasn't done anything this year that Kobe hasn't done in past years. Lebron's season has been an awful lot like Kobe's 02-03. And while the Cavs supporting cast is much worse than the Lakers, remember that the Lakers were #1 west before Gasol. Sure Bynum was having a good year to that point. But is Bynum, Odom, Fisher, Radomonovich any better than Gibson, Hughes, Gooden, Ilgauskas? Kobe's scoring and rebounds were only down because they could be with the Lakers still winning. Notice in March Kobe scored by far the most points he scored in any other month? Notice he had more boards in March than in any other month? Kobe put up 31.5, 7.7, and 5.8 in March. Also see that he shot the ball 60 more times than he did in other months? That's because Bynum was out and Gasol missed about 3 weeks worth of time.

 

I'd say that the Lakers' rotation is better than the Cavs. I'd take Odom over any of the four Cavs guys you listed without question and probably Bynum as well. But it's not so much better that the two shouldn't even be compared.

 

The big thing, as you addressed, is Pau Gasol. People get all caught up in that trade but like you said, the Lakers were tops in the West before Gasol. They were 30-16 when Pau played in his first game and he did only play in 27 games with the Lakers. So for 2/3 of the season, the Lakers had to deal without him.

Gasol essentailly replaced Bynum. You guys will be scary when they can both play together. Scary.

[Guest]

In what way did Kobe have a better season than LeBron? LeBron scored more (30-28.3), assisted more (7.2-5.4), rebounded more (7.9-6.3), blocked more shots (1.08-.49), and shot a higher percentage (.484-.459). Steals were even (1.84-1.84). Kobe did shot better from the foul line (.840-.712) and from 3 (.361-.315). LeBron's PER was also substantially higher (29.23-24.3). LeBron also has worse teammates and, as far as I remember, never publicly pouted, demanded a trade or trashed his teammates. Kobe does, obviously, play on a superior team in the superior conference.

 

Outside of people thinking Kobe deserves an MVP at some point, I'm not sure what he's done this year to deserve it over LeBron.

 

Helped his team get the No. 1 seed in the playoffs in the far, far tougher conference despite a number of injuries?

Get out of here with that. Find me one guy on LeBron's team that would even crack the Laker's rotation. LeBron is the MVP in my book. That team is the Heat if he gets hurt.

 

Again, as I said earlier, that's not the only criteria but it has to be considered. I mean, are the Cavs even a playoff team if they're in the West? They went 17-13 overall against the West this year but only 5-11 against the eight playoff teams. Yeah, without LeBron, Cleveland would probably be the Heat. But if you put Cleveland in the West, they're probably Portland or Sacramento and are 10-12 games out of a playoff spot. Hence the reason I don't buy the "well, LeBron helped get a crappy team into the playoffs". It's not a very hard thing to do in the East.

[illiniguy]

In what way did Kobe have a better season than LeBron? LeBron scored more (30-28.3), assisted more (7.2-5.4), rebounded more (7.9-6.3), blocked more shots (1.08-.49), and shot a higher percentage (.484-.459). Steals were even (1.84-1.84). Kobe did shot better from the foul line (.840-.712) and from 3 (.361-.315). LeBron's PER was also substantially higher (29.23-24.3). LeBron also has worse teammates and, as far as I remember, never publicly pouted, demanded a trade or trashed his teammates. Kobe does, obviously, play on a superior team in the superior conference.

 

Outside of people thinking Kobe deserves an MVP at some point, I'm not sure what he's done this year to deserve it over LeBron.

 

Helped his team get the No. 1 seed in the playoffs in the far, far tougher conference despite a number of injuries?

Get out of here with that. Find me one guy on LeBron's team that would even crack the Laker's rotation. LeBron is the MVP in my book. That team is the Heat if he gets hurt.

 

Again, as I said earlier, that's not the only criteria but it has to be considered. I mean, are the Cavs even a playoff team if they're in the West? They went 17-13 overall against the West this year but only 5-11 against the eight playoff teams. Yeah, without LeBron, Cleveland would probably be the Heat. But if you put Cleveland in the West, they're probably Portland or Sacramento and are 10-12 games out of a playoff spot. Hence the reason I don't buy the "well, LeBron helped get a crappy team into the playoffs". It's not a very hard thing to do in the East.

True, I hadn't really thought of it in that respect. It is a very strange year in that when have we ever had 4 guys as deserving for the MVP in the same year? I can think of three, but never four. I mean the year Barkley won, Jordan and Olajuwon had arguments. But, this year is ridiculous.

[ELCABALLO45]

Garnett is a great, great player, but he's nowhere near MVP level this year. Hell, if you want to be direct about it, the guy he got traded for was better than him. I'm disappointed that Lebron basically got removed from consideration for some reason...the year he put u is ridiculous, and he's clearly carrying that team. No, they're not as good as the Lakers or Hornets, but how much worse would they be without him? Look at what they did while he was out hurt.

 

KG turned around a team that was 24-58. Yes Ray Allen helped that out alot, but Garnett was the best player on the best team this year. He was the leader of the best team in the NBA. If that isn't MVP material then a I dunno what is. And to say Al Jefferson was better than him, im sorry then I don't want to talk NBA with you anymore.

 

It's not necessarily that Al Jefferson is better than Garnett, it's that if the Celtics didn't make that trade and had a trio of Pierce, Allen and Jefferson, not much would have changed. The Celtics won their division this year by 25 games, they were 14 games better than No. 3 Orlando and 21 games better than No. 4 Cleveland. I don't think they would have had the best record in the league and probably wouldn't have been No. 1 in the East, but Boston would have won their division and would have been at least the No. 3 seed in the East, if not the No. 2 ahead of Orlando.

 

As far as LeBron, I discount him a bit because he's in the East and any team with a pulse could have made the playoffs in the East. I also hold this against Garnett. The West was far and away the tougher conference this year and when determining MVP candidates, that has to be in consideration. I wouldn't take LeBron out of the discussion, but I'd put him a solid third behind Kobe and Chris Paul and easily ahead of Garnett.

 

And even though I'm a Lakers fan and my choice of Kobe for MVP is a semi-homer pick, I won't be disappointed at all if Paul wins it because he's been ridiculous this year as well.

 

Wait, are you being serious? Al Jefferson can't hold KG's jock. Its not even close. Take KG off the Celtics and they are probably a 6 or 7 seed, not top 5. Al Jefferson is a okay player FOR THE LAST PLACE TIMBERWOLVES.

 

My MVP Ballot

 

1. Kevin Garnett

2. Kobe Bryant

3. Chris Paul

4. LeBron James

 

Its so damn close

[illiniguy]

Garnett is a great, great player, but he's nowhere near MVP level this year. Hell, if you want to be direct about it, the guy he got traded for was better than him. I'm disappointed that Lebron basically got removed from consideration for some reason...the year he put u is ridiculous, and he's clearly carrying that team. No, they're not as good as the Lakers or Hornets, but how much worse would they be without him? Look at what they did while he was out hurt.

 

KG turned around a team that was 24-58. Yes Ray Allen helped that out alot, but Garnett was the best player on the best team this year. He was the leader of the best team in the NBA. If that isn't MVP material then a I dunno what is. And to say Al Jefferson was better than him, im sorry then I don't want to talk NBA with you anymore.

 

It's not necessarily that Al Jefferson is better than Garnett, it's that if the Celtics didn't make that trade and had a trio of Pierce, Allen and Jefferson, not much would have changed. The Celtics won their division this year by 25 games, they were 14 games better than No. 3 Orlando and 21 games better than No. 4 Cleveland. I don't think they would have had the best record in the league and probably wouldn't have been No. 1 in the East, but Boston would have won their division and would have been at least the No. 3 seed in the East, if not the No. 2 ahead of Orlando.

 

As far as LeBron, I discount him a bit because he's in the East and any team with a pulse could have made the playoffs in the East. I also hold this against Garnett. The West was far and away the tougher conference this year and when determining MVP candidates, that has to be in consideration. I wouldn't take LeBron out of the discussion, but I'd put him a solid third behind Kobe and Chris Paul and easily ahead of Garnett.

 

And even though I'm a Lakers fan and my choice of Kobe for MVP is a semi-homer pick, I won't be disappointed at all if Paul wins it because he's been ridiculous this year as well.

 

Wait, are you being serious? Al Jefferson can't hold KG's jock. Its not even close. Take KG off the Celtics and they are probably a 6 or 7 seed, not top 5. Al Jefferson is a okay player FOR THE LAST PLACE TIMBERWOLVES.

 

My MVP Ballot

 

1. Kevin Garnett

2. Kobe Bryant

3. Chris Paul

4. LeBron James

 

Its so damn close

The Celtics would be a top 2 East team had they still kept Al Jefferson. He is a damn good player all by himself in Minnesota.

[bukie]

And...Utah just won game 2 on the road.

[Guest]

Kevin Garnett winning over any of those other 3 is laughable. He has been far less productive than LBJ or CP3 (check out that gap in PER). He isn't as "valuable" as the other 3 (take the other 3 off their team and they're - at best - eeking into the playoffs; take Garnett off the Celtics and they still have homecourt advantage in the first round).

[illiniguy]

And...Utah just won game 2 on the road.

I love the Jazz. They are so deep and good.

[Andy]

And...Utah just won game 2 on the road.

Yep. Rockets are cooked. They would have to take 2 of 3 in Utah to win the series and I just don't see it happening.

[ELCABALLO45]

Garnett is a great, great player, but he's nowhere near MVP level this year. Hell, if you want to be direct about it, the guy he got traded for was better than him. I'm disappointed that Lebron basically got removed from consideration for some reason...the year he put u is ridiculous, and he's clearly carrying that team. No, they're not as good as the Lakers or Hornets, but how much worse would they be without him? Look at what they did while he was out hurt.

 

KG turned around a team that was 24-58. Yes Ray Allen helped that out alot, but Garnett was the best player on the best team this year. He was the leader of the best team in the NBA. If that isn't MVP material then a I dunno what is. And to say Al Jefferson was better than him, im sorry then I don't want to talk NBA with you anymore.

 

It's not necessarily that Al Jefferson is better than Garnett, it's that if the Celtics didn't make that trade and had a trio of Pierce, Allen and Jefferson, not much would have changed. The Celtics won their division this year by 25 games, they were 14 games better than No. 3 Orlando and 21 games better than No. 4 Cleveland. I don't think they would have had the best record in the league and probably wouldn't have been No. 1 in the East, but Boston would have won their division and would have been at least the No. 3 seed in the East, if not the No. 2 ahead of Orlando.

 

As far as LeBron, I discount him a bit because he's in the East and any team with a pulse could have made the playoffs in the East. I also hold this against Garnett. The West was far and away the tougher conference this year and when determining MVP candidates, that has to be in consideration. I wouldn't take LeBron out of the discussion, but I'd put him a solid third behind Kobe and Chris Paul and easily ahead of Garnett.

 

And even though I'm a Lakers fan and my choice of Kobe for MVP is a semi-homer pick, I won't be disappointed at all if Paul wins it because he's been ridiculous this year as well.

 

Wait, are you being serious? Al Jefferson can't hold KG's jock. Its not even close. Take KG off the Celtics and they are probably a 6 or 7 seed, not top 5. Al Jefferson is a okay player FOR THE LAST PLACE TIMBERWOLVES.

 

My MVP Ballot

 

1. Kevin Garnett

2. Kobe Bryant

3. Chris Paul

4. LeBron James

 

Its so damn close

The Celtics would be a top 2 East team had they still kept Al Jefferson. He is a damn good player all by himself in Minnesota.

 

He is a decent player, not Garnett type tho. Garnett is a HOF player.

[ELCABALLO45]

Kevin Garnett winning over any of those other 3 is laughable. He has been far less productive than LBJ or CP3 (check out that gap in PER). He isn't as "valuable" as the other 3 (take the other 3 off their team and they're - at best - eeking into the playoffs; take Garnett off the Celtics and they still have homecourt advantage in the first round).

 

I guess the voting is usually the best player on the best team. And that's Kevin Garnett

[Andy]

He is a decent player, not Garnett type tho. Garnett is a HOF player.

Garnett: 18.8 PPG, 9.2 RPG, 3.4 APG, 1.2 BPG

 

Jefferson: 21.0 PPG, 11.1 RPG, 1.4 APG, 1.5 BPG

[illiniguy]

He is a decent player, not Garnett type tho. Garnett is a HOF player.

Garnett: 18.8 PPG, 9.2 RPG, 3.4 APG, 1.2 BPG

 

Jefferson: 21.0 PPG, 11.1 RPG, 1.4 APG, 1.5 BPG

Plus didn't the Wolves win about the same number of games with Jefferson? Garnett is a good player, but so is Jefferson.

[illiniguy]

Kevin Garnett winning over any of those other 3 is laughable. He has been far less productive than LBJ or CP3 (check out that gap in PER). He isn't as "valuable" as the other 3 (take the other 3 off their team and they're - at best - eeking into the playoffs; take Garnett off the Celtics and they still have homecourt advantage in the first round).

 

I guess the voting is usually the best player on the best team. And that's Kevin Garnett

So you are for Kobe then? Cause the Celtics are the best team only in record.