Re: Roberts: OH mini update (p.183); Happy 200!! (p.200)

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'm going to need more proof than the crude study offered thus far to believe it.

[seanimal]

nor was it based in science. There is nothing to draw from your data. Nothing.

 

How is there nothing to draw from my data? It shows that it's faster to slide into first. Each person got to 1st faster by sliding, over numerous trials! And feet first was faster than head first. The reason I came up with this idea is cuz I was watching baseball games on tv and whenever they showed replays of guys running to first, you can see how big that last step always is. I thought to myself that if they just slid I think they would get there quicker. But I said "no way, i was told not to slide into 1st, and I'm sure that the ground will slow you down." Those I believe are true but I think that there are also cons to running through the bag. So I tested it, and I was right.

 

It doesn't show anything. Nothing. There is nothing to draw from your 'study'. It is not scientific. It is not accurate. You're not proving anything.

[UK1679666180]

I definitely would not put my kids at risk by sliding into 1B, regardless of any tenths of a second saved. More important things to teach and stress.

[OleMissCub]

Has no one yet brought up that the main reason you slide in baseball (in general) is to avoid a tag? Sliding isn't preferable. It hurts/isn't comfortable and nearly always increases the risk of injury. Are you suggesting that people should slide into first everytime there is a play there?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Has no one yet brought up that the main reason you slide in baseball (in general) is to avoid a tag?

 

Stopping yourself is the other big reason.

[DeuceBaseman]

Has no one yet brought up that the main reason you slide in baseball (in general) is to avoid a tag? Sliding isn't preferable. It hurts/isn't comfortable and nearly always increases the risk of injury. Are you suggesting that people should slide into first everytime there is a play there?

 

Everything possible has been mentioned. And yes I am suggesting to slide all the time. I think it is less of an injury risk.

[Yanksfan1523]

I know a lot about the game of baseball. I was a .500 hitter in HS so I did have the skill but I think my mental makeup of the game was a lot stronger than my physical part, and thats why I'm coaching.

 

I led my team in SB's every year and I was one of the slowest on the team. I also would get 10 guys out a year on backdoor plays when they would hit a single to the OF and I'd be the cut off man and throw to 1st and get them out as they're rounding the base not expecting a throw.

 

But my big coaching belief is sliding into 1st base. When players run to 1st base, a lot of being safe has to do with mental stuff. You see players lunge for the bag, or stutter step before they get there, this slows them down. So when I was in college, (At the horrible U of I), I did a series of tests. I was on the baseball team so I figured my project should be on something with baseball. And I always thought that sliding into 1st was faster than running through the bag. So I decided to test it. I had 10 people. Each with different baseball experience. Some played college ball, some have never played in their life. They each ran 5 trials. Running through the bag, Sliding feet first, and sliding head first. After all the trials it showed up that sliding feet first was fastest by almost half a second, then sliding head first, then running through the bag. This could have a lot to do with people stutter stepping or lunging for first. But I believe that if you sprint towards first with the intention of sliding feet first, you have a better chance of being safe than running through the bag. Plus you never have to think whether to slide or not on a bad throw, and you can pop right up on a wild throw and run to 2nd. AND no more sprained ankles from landing on the bag the wrong way.

 

People thought I was crazy when I told them about this. Until I showed them the test results, and I actually started doing it in games and I beat out a lot of infield singles. You just gotta make sure the ump knows your sliding so that he isnt surprised and call you out just for sliding. Let the discussion begin!

 

I am not going to read the whole thread, so if this was brought up I apologize. My question is how did you collect this data? Even without seeing the data, I can think of many problems with your method. Was it just you with a stopwatch? did you have some bag with a pressure sensor to stop the instance it was touched?

 

I don't see some huge purely scientific study being done. You would first have to explain your method.

[OleMissCub]

I think it is less of an injury risk.

 

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, but that's just preposterous. Sliding is safer than running? Absolutely not. 75% of my aches and pains from playing the game came from sliding.

[TheGrinch]

Wait... is this seriously a topic? People think that sliding into first will get you there quicker than sprinting? What the?

 

It will. I'm assuming you disagree because your little league baseball coach told you to "never slide into 1st".

No, I'm disagreeing because it's absurd. How does sliding (which slows you down) get you somewhere faster than running at your fullest speed?

 

Pretty much my opinion. Sliding is friction. Friction is reducing forward momentum. There are other factors, granted. But it's hard to get my head past this very basic truism.

Question for Deuce: in your "study," did the head-first and foot-first slide involve sliding into the base and ending there, or starting the slide right at the bag and sliding over it? I claim that sliding (I'd rather use the term diving) would be a little faster...but not if you are starting your slide way before the bag and ending on it like a conventional slide into second or third. In that case, I doubt that the advantage of being able to reach out and touch the bag would offset the loss in speed by being at a near stand-still as you approach the bag. A perfect dive into first would make friction with the ground not an issue, since you would have touched the bag as friction started effecting your speed. The only loss of speed would be from not taking those last few optimal sprinting steps and diving instead.

[DeuceBaseman]

I think it is less of an injury risk.

 

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, but that's just preposterous. Sliding is safer than running? Absolutely not. 75% of my aches and pains from playing the game came from sliding.

 

I'm a feet first slider for the most part. I have never injured myself sliding. Maybe a little burn on my thigh or something if the ground is hard. But I have rolled my ankle numerous times running through the bag at 1st. I don't see people getting injured sliding that often unless they are sliding to avoid a tag.

[seanimal]

this better end up in nsbb lol

[imb]

you're seriously teaching kids to slide into first base feet first instead of running straight through?

 

I can understand thinking that maybe a headfirst dive gets you there quicker, but feet first?

 

Between wrigley23 and this guy, im starting to think that nsbb is just getting trolled all over.

[OleMissCub]

I don't see people getting injured sliding that often unless they are sliding to avoid a tag.

 

.....which is what, 90% of sliding?

[SouthSideRyan]

I wouldn't think diving will become an everyday occurrence even if it were proven a touch faster...but lets say its a one game playoff for the wildcard, tied game, two outs, 8th inning, man on third...would you dive if you knew it was faster? I think I would.

 

The problem with it(sorry if this has been addressed) is that in order for it to be faster you have to time your dive perfectly such that you land at just the right point. It's possible to time that dive perfectly, but most of the time you would either break stride to time the dive, or you'd dive too late and get to the bag later than if you ran through.

[Yanksfan1523]

a half second is a hell of a difference and i'd imagine if this was true every big leaguer would be sliding into first...just my opinion though, i'm not a scientist.

 

Sorry i was off, I just looked back at the results. Running through was 4.425 secs, Sliding head first was 4.325 secs, and sliding feet first was 4.2 secs. So it was about .2-.3 secs faster from sliding feet to running.

 

I'm guessing you hand-timed this?

 

Yes, with a normal stop watch. There's def room for error. But I thought that sliding was faster before hand and I wasnt surprised with the results. I think the hand timing by me shouldnt be much of an error.

 

Ok, so I got sucked into the thread. If you thought sliding was faster, do you think it is possible that you subconsciously stopped the watch quicker? Maybe someone else should have handled the watch.

[TheGrinch]

I don't see people getting injured sliding that often unless they are sliding to avoid a tag.

 

.....which is what, 90% of sliding?

I think 90% of sliding is getting to the bag as fast as possible without going past the bag. Using the ground to decelerate is pretty effective for that. You can approach really fast and stop on a dime by sliding correctly. As far as evasive maneuvers from sliding...I would think that the fact that fielders know a slide is coming helps them. Swiping low is bound to tag them (unless we are talking hook slides and the like). Running into a base might really be more effective for avoiding a tag, but makes getting there and stopping take longer. ...or am I way off?

[TheGrinch]

I wouldn't think diving will become an everyday occurrence even if it were proven a touch faster...but lets say its a one game playoff for the wildcard, tied game, two outs, 8th inning, man on third...would you dive if you knew it was faster? I think I would.

 

The problem with it(sorry if this has been addressed) is that in order for it to be faster you have to time your dive perfectly such that you land at just the right point. It's possible to time that dive perfectly, but most of the time you would either break stride to time the dive, or you'd dive too late and get to the bag later than if you ran through.

But isn't it just as likely that you would have to break stride to step on base anyways?

[OleMissCub]

 

The problem with it(sorry if this has been addressed) is that in order for it to be faster you have to time your dive perfectly such that you land at just the right point. It's possible to time that dive perfectly, but most of the time you would either break stride to time the dive, or you'd dive too late and get to the bag later than if you ran through.

 

Indeed. This is sort of an odd thing to try and explain, but the way you run to first is different than the way you run to other bases. When you are running to the other bases, you are running with the knowledge that you might have to slide and this knowledge changes your stride because of timing issues, whereas when you are running to first you are outright sprinting.

[OleMissCub]

I don't see people getting injured sliding that often unless they are sliding to avoid a tag.

 

.....which is what, 90% of sliding?

I think 90% of sliding is getting to the bag as fast as possible without going past the bag.

 

I suppose it could be viewed in that way. With regards to sliding specifically, I consider "stopping without going past the bag" and "avoiding the tag" to basically be one in the same.

[Outshined_One]

I wouldn't think diving will become an everyday occurrence even if it were proven a touch faster...but lets say its a one game playoff for the wildcard, tied game, two outs, 8th inning, man on third...would you dive if you knew it was faster? I think I would.

 

The problem with it(sorry if this has been addressed) is that in order for it to be faster you have to time your dive perfectly such that you land at just the right point. It's possible to time that dive perfectly, but most of the time you would either break stride to time the dive, or you'd dive too late and get to the bag later than if you ran through.

But isn't it just as likely that you would have to break stride to step on base anyways?

 

Potentially, but it depends on if the difference between breaking stride to slide and breaking stride to step on the base has any meaningful value in this analysis.

[SouthSideRyan]

I wouldn't think diving will become an everyday occurrence even if it were proven a touch faster...but lets say its a one game playoff for the wildcard, tied game, two outs, 8th inning, man on third...would you dive if you knew it was faster? I think I would.

 

The problem with it(sorry if this has been addressed) is that in order for it to be faster you have to time your dive perfectly such that you land at just the right point. It's possible to time that dive perfectly, but most of the time you would either break stride to time the dive, or you'd dive too late and get to the bag later than if you ran through.

But isn't it just as likely that you would have to break stride to step on base anyways?

 

Yes, but I believe that's already built into the study that I'm familiar with because it's based on a comparison of a standard time running through the base, not the ideal time which is necessary of the dive. The dive has to be ideal whereas the run-through is already timed in non-ideal trials.

[TheGrinch]

I wouldn't think diving will become an everyday occurrence even if it were proven a touch faster...but lets say its a one game playoff for the wildcard, tied game, two outs, 8th inning, man on third...would you dive if you knew it was faster? I think I would.

 

The problem with it(sorry if this has been addressed) is that in order for it to be faster you have to time your dive perfectly such that you land at just the right point. It's possible to time that dive perfectly, but most of the time you would either break stride to time the dive, or you'd dive too late and get to the bag later than if you ran through.

But isn't it just as likely that you would have to break stride to step on base anyways?

 

Yes, but I believe that's already built into the study that I'm familiar with because it's based on a comparison of a standard time running through the base, not the ideal time which is necessary of the dive. The dive has to be ideal whereas the run-through is already timed in non-ideal trials.

Why is that? ...and what study are we talking about?

[DeuceBaseman]

I don't see people getting injured sliding that often unless they are sliding to avoid a tag.

 

.....which is what, 90% of sliding?

 

If your sliding into first, then avoiding a tag would be 0% of sliding unless its a bad throw because it's a force out. So it is less of an injury risk. And these guys will know that they will be sliding when the get to first, so it wont be a last second decision. Before the season starts this year, I'm gonna test it again with my players and if some get there faster by sliding then I will encourage it for them. But I'm the assistant coach so I'd have to convince the head coach.

[TheGrinch]

I don't see people getting injured sliding that often unless they are sliding to avoid a tag.

 

.....which is what, 90% of sliding?

 

If your sliding into first, then avoiding a tag would be 0% of sliding unless its a bad throw because it's a force out. So it is less of an injury risk. And these guys will know that they will be sliding when the get to first, so it wont be a last second decision. Before the season starts this year, I'm gonna test it again with my players and if some get there faster by sliding then I will encourage it for them. But I'm the assistant coach so I'd have to convince the head coach.

I would like to see stats on the frequency of injuries for sliding into first compared to running past it...I would be willing to be that you get injured around...oh...500% more often sliding into first. And that might be conservative.

[DeuceBaseman]

It's just a theory of mine that I think is very unique and I am convinced it is true based on my studies. I think this discussion is a lot more civil than the past so it's ok. It's good to have this discussion as long as no one is insulting anyone else. I hope it does work though and it changes the game.