Heard a Rumor: Cubs Interested in Crisp

[Clem Fandango]

I'm not cukoo for Coco Crisp.

 

[/anotherlamefoodjoke]

 

Seriously, what a waste of time and players. Lofton would be cheaper, and wouldn't cost any players, if we really want a backup for Pie in case he flutters.

[gerby23]

Just my opinion, but I don't like it. I also don't like when Hendry deals with GM's smarter than him, it makes me nervous that we get royally fleeced.

[rocket]

2 years and 10.5 million for a very good defensive centerfielder with an 8.4 warp3 is very fair.

[Post Count Padder]

I'm not cukoo for Coco Crisp.

 

[/anotherlamefoodjoke]

 

Seriously, what a waste of time and players. Lofton would be cheaper, and wouldn't cost any players, if we really want a backup for Pie in case he flutters.

I think we'd only acquire him if we trade Pie. I doubt we get him if Pie's still on the team.

[SweetZombieJesus]

2 years and 10.5 million for a very good defensive centerfielder with an 8.4 warp3 is very fair.

 

Corey could provide just as much and you are not giving up Wuertz and Murton.

 

Heck, Pie could probably do that too next year in a full time role. Crisp blows and it's probably likely his power is never coming back with steroid testing.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I like Crisp better than Lofton. Although Wuertz, Murton, and a pitcher is a comically bad deal. Epstein is not dealing from a position of strength, Crisp has not been very good for two years now and isn't cheap. Crisp should be a buy-low proposition.

 

Did you forget they were offering Lester, Crisp, Flotsam and Jetsam for Santana earlier this winter. He might be the most overrated player in the majors. I'd rather sign Corey over trading something for Crisp they are essentially the same player.

 

and when I mean the same player they are both really 680-730 OPS type CFs with above average D. Corey is a straight lefty but plays better defense and has a much better arm IMO. Crisp has a slightly better bat and patience and is a switch hitter

 

Crisp is significantly better defensively, and may be the best defensive CF in the game. His UZR is up there with Adam Everett. Plus his approach at the plate is much more conducive to him returning to his previous success offensively, unlike Patterson.

[sneakypower]

2 years and 10.5 million for a very good defensive centerfielder with an 8.4 warp3 is very fair.

any reason why we have so much faith in a statistical manipulation with which we have no idea the formula?

[RedFlash]

BoSox should not be asking of anything valuable for Crisp. Just because they traded Andy Marte (who's long since became a bust, until he proved otherwise) for Crisp, doesn't mean they have the right expect a similarly talent player or package.

 

I would consider doing a Wuertz for Crisp deal straight up, but this would be based ont he idea of Lahey and/or another unknown player can surprise people and make up for Wuertz's production. The chances of that happening, is slim at best. So if Boston wants to part with Coco, they have to considered a lower tier of players. Ideally Demspter for Crisp would be a good deal, but I doubt Boston would do it. And like most, would not do a Murton/Wuertz AND another player for Crisp, unless a decent arm like Delcarmen is coming back with Crisp.

[SweetZombieJesus]

I like Crisp better than Lofton. Although Wuertz, Murton, and a pitcher is a comically bad deal. Epstein is not dealing from a position of strength, Crisp has not been very good for two years now and isn't cheap. Crisp should be a buy-low proposition.

 

Did you forget they were offering Lester, Crisp, Flotsam and Jetsam for Santana earlier this winter. He might be the most overrated player in the majors. I'd rather sign Corey over trading something for Crisp they are essentially the same player.

 

and when I mean the same player they are both really 680-730 OPS type CFs with above average D. Corey is a straight lefty but plays better defense and has a much better arm IMO. Crisp has a slightly better bat and patience and is a switch hitter

 

Crisp is significantly better defensively, and may be the best defensive CF in the game. His UZR is up there with Adam Everett. Plus his approach at the plate is much more conducive to him returning to his previous success offensively, unlike Patterson.

 

The previous year Patterson was tops in the AL in RZR and Crisp was dead last amoung qualifiers.

 

Either way I don't want either of them and I certainly wouldn't be giving up a 2 players to get him.

[rocket]

2 years and 10.5 million for a very good defensive centerfielder with an 8.4 warp3 is very fair.

any reason why we have so much faith in a statistical manipulation with which we have no idea the formula?

 

because i don't think baseball prospectus lies and makes up random stats?

[RammyFanny]

I think this actually makes a lot of sense. Crane said that the Cubs have 2 offers on the table to get them 2 big names whom arent pitchers. If the Cubs end up trading Gallagher and Pie for Roberts which would be ridiculous, then they could trade Murton, Wuertz, and someone like marquis/Dempster/marshall for Crisp and be set. I would rather keep marshall and i dont know what the red sox would do with another SP. They got Beckett, schilling, dice-k, wakefield, lester, and bucholtz.

Did Crane specifically say they weren't pitchers?

 

And this 2 deal thing has been around awhile now, I doubt Crisp would be one of the guys since he was on and off in the Santana discussions.

[UMFan83]

BoSox should not be asking of anything valuable for Crisp. Just because they traded Andy Marte (who's long since became a bust, until he proved otherwise) for Crisp, doesn't mean they have the right expect a similarly talent player or package.

 

I would consider doing a Wuertz for Crisp deal straight up, but this would be based ont he idea of Lahey and/or another unknown player can surprise people and make up for Wuertz's production. The chances of that happening, is slim at best. So if Boston wants to part with Coco, they have to considered a lower tier of players. Ideally Demspter for Crisp would be a good deal, but I doubt Boston would do it. And like most, would not do a Murton/Wuertz AND another player for Crisp, unless a decent arm like Delcarmen is coming back with Crisp.

 

I would think all the stats guys in the Red Sox FO know all about his defensive value and will not accept something like Wuertz for him.

[RammyFanny]

And quick, someone find a deal where we can get Lowrie back

 

I know it ain't happening but I can dream.

[sneakypower]

because i don't think baseball prospectus lies and makes up random stats?

who said they were random?

 

we haven't a clue what they're factoring, how much weight they're giving it, what they're omitting, and still it's used as gospel of a player's true value. it's laughable.

 

i guess i'm more critical.

[sneakypower]

I would think all the stats guys in the Red Sox FO know all about his defensive value and will not accept something like Wuertz for him.

those guys thought jeremy reed was the best defensive CF in baseball.

[rocket]

because i don't think baseball prospectus lies and makes up random stats?

who said they were random?

 

we haven't a clue what they're factoring, how much weight they're giving it, what they're omitting, and still it's used as gospel of a player's true value. it's laughable.

 

i guess i'm more critical.

 

what statistic do you prefer that gives an estimation how much a player is worth? not just hitting, but value for their fielding, and baserunning too.

[RynoRules]

Crisp's best OBP was .345 in 05'; he put up a 117 OPS+ that season. Can anyone account for why he has regressed in this regard?

[Clem Fandango]

I prefer to use Zorp-7

[DenverCubs]

I prefer to use Zorp-7

Flerm-22 perhaps

[SweetZombieJesus]

Crisp's best OBP was .345 in 05'; he put up a 117 OPS+ that season. Can anyone account for why he has regressed in this regard?

 

His walk rate is roughly the same. His real problem is he just doesn't hit 300 or for any sort of power anymore since steroid testing has came into effect.

[sneakypower]

because i don't think baseball prospectus lies and makes up random stats?

who said they were random?

 

we haven't a clue what they're factoring, how much weight they're giving it, what they're omitting, and still it's used as gospel of a player's true value. it's laughable.

 

i guess i'm more critical.

 

what statistic do you prefer that gives an estimation how much a player is worth? not just hitting, but value for their fielding, and baserunning too.

none exist yet. not even close.

 

you could consider all the aspects of a player's game and make an educated evaluation with all of the incomplete information you're presented with instead of lazily trusting another self-proclaimed expert to do your thinking for you.

 

it's more fun too.

[Clem Fandango]

Crisp's best OBP was .345 in 05'; he put up a 117 OPS+ that season. Can anyone account for why he has regressed in this regard?

 

He's not really that good? Actually, I'd attribute it to him fracturing his hand in 2006

[rocket]

I prefer to use Zorp-7

 

i WATCH the games so i don't need those fancy numbers i don't understand telling me who's a good ballplayer.

[SweetZombieJesus]

Hooray another SABR vs. anti SABR arguement ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

[RedFlash]

BoSox should not be asking of anything valuable for Crisp. Just because they traded Andy Marte (who's long since became a bust, until he proved otherwise) for Crisp, doesn't mean they have the right expect a similarly talent player or package.

 

I would consider doing a Wuertz for Crisp deal straight up, but this would be based ont he idea of Lahey and/or another unknown player can surprise people and make up for Wuertz's production. The chances of that happening, is slim at best. So if Boston wants to part with Coco, they have to considered a lower tier of players. Ideally Demspter for Crisp would be a good deal, but I doubt Boston would do it. And like most, would not do a Murton/Wuertz AND another player for Crisp, unless a decent arm like Delcarmen is coming back with Crisp.

 

I would think all the stats guys in the Red Sox FO know all about his defensive value and will not accept something like Wuertz for him.

 

Then the Cubs and the Red Sox are simply not a good match. And that is fine with me. Guys like Crisp are simply NOT that valuable.