Collaborative historical ranking

[OleMissCub]

Saw some guys do this on another baseball forum and it looked fun.

 

Basically, we just rank the best players of all time, but you can only post another player after 20 turns have passed.

 

You copy the list as it is in the post above yours and just add your choice...

 

I'll start out:

 

1. Babe Ruth

 

the next person to post should post:

 

1. Babe Ruth

2. their choice

 

third person should post it like:

 

1. Babe Ruth

2. previous choice

3. their choice

[wekse]

1. Babe Ruth

2. Kent Mercker/Adam Dunn (tie)

[NewUserName]

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ted Williams

[OleMissCub]

1. Babe Ruth

2. Kent Mercker/Adam Dunn (tie)

 

What a knee slapper!!

[OleMissCub]

Just wanted to add that Negro leaguers are able to be ranked

[treebird]

i don't understand the point of this. are we trying to make a list that zero people will agree with?

[OleMissCub]

i don't understand the point of this. are we trying to make a list that zero people will agree with?

 

Your disagreement is duly noted.

[rocket]

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ted Williams

3. Barry Bonds

[OleMissCub]

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ted Williams

3. Barry Bonds

 

Just a note, if you are getting the list via quoting from the person posting in front of you, remove the quotes. For example, the next person's list should read:

 

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ted Williams

3. Barry Bonds

4. whomever

[treebird]

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ted Williams

3. Barry Bonds

4. Honus Wagner

[Rob]

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ted Williams

3. Barry Bonds

4. Honus Wagner

5. Willie Mays

[Post Count Padder]

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ted Williams

3. Berry Bonds

4. Honus Wagner

5. Willie Mays

6. Hank Aaron

[OleMissCub]

*homer disclaimer*

 

All great rankings so far, although I must confess that I disagree with Wagner being ranked above Cobb. If people want to place the more modern players like Bonds, Aaron, or Mays above someone like Cobb, I have no problem with that because many people certainly put more value in modern players, which is their prerogative. However, both Wagner and Cobb played in the same era, yet look at their career average stats:

 

Wagner:

.327/.391/.466, 150 OPS+, Eqa .316

 

Cobb:

.366/.433/.512, 167 OPS+, Eqa .333

[cubscausestress]

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ted Williams

3. Berry Bonds

4. Honus Wagner

5. Willie Mays

6. Hank Aaron

7. Josh Gibson

[treebird]

*homer disclaimer*

 

All great rankings so far, although I must confess that I disagree with Wagner being ranked above Cobb. If people want to place the more modern players like Bonds, Aaron, or Mays above someone like Cobb, I have no problem with that because many people certainly put more value in modern players, which is their prerogative. However, both Wagner and Cobb played in the same era, yet look at their career average stats:

 

Wagner:

.327/.391/.466, 150 OPS+, Eqa .316

 

Cobb:

.366/.433/.512, 167 OPS+, Eqa .333

 

honus wagner played shortstop. really, really well, by all accounts.

 

i realize you probably know that, but you probably realize that i know that cobb hit better than wagner over the course of his career.

 

i suspect positional scarcity and defensive value slide wagner comfortably ahead of wagner, but i obviously have no way of proving that.

[Rob]

*homer disclaimer*

 

All great rankings so far, although I must confess that I disagree with Wagner being ranked above Cobb. If people want to place the more modern players like Bonds, Aaron, or Mays above someone like Cobb, I have no problem with that because many people certainly put more value in modern players, which is their prerogative. However, both Wagner and Cobb played in the same era, yet look at their career average stats:

 

Wagner:

.327/.391/.466, 150 OPS+, Eqa .316

 

Cobb:

.366/.433/.512, 167 OPS+, Eqa .333

 

honus wagner played shortstop. really, really well, by all accounts.

 

i realize you probably know that, but you probably realize that i know that cobb hit better than wagner over the course of his career.

 

i suspect positional scarcity and defensive value slide wagner comfortably ahead of wagner, but i obviously have no way of proving that.

 

WARP3 should do it. Wagner posted a 210.7 score for his career, while Cobb comes in at 205.4, despite Cobb playing about 250 more games.

[OleMissCub]

honus wagner played shortstop. really, really well, by all accounts.

 

i realize you probably know that, but you probably realize that i know that cobb hit better than wagner over the course of his career.

 

i suspect positional scarcity and defensive value slide wagner comfortably ahead of wagner, but i obviously have no way of proving that.

 

No, I definitely understand why someone would rank him that high. Your point about shortstop is definitely true. From all accounts he was an incredible shortstop.

 

I think John McGraw's famous quote about Wagner summed it up:

 

"I name Wagner first on my list, not only because he was a great batting champion and base-runner, and also baseball's foremost shortstop - but because Honus could have been first at any other position, with the possible exception of pitcher. In all my career, I never saw such a versatile player."

 

It is interesting to note that McGraw rarely, if ever, saw Cobb play, given that his Giants were in the National League and they didn't have available video in those days. Contrarily, you have Connie Mack, a lifelong American League manager (someone who never saw Wagner) saying this about Cobb in 1950:

 

Ty was very much misunderstood by many fans around the country but there is no player in the history of the game who excelled him in all-round ability

[cbbryan]

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ted Williams

3. Berry Bonds

4. Honus Wagner

5. Willie Mays

6. Hank Aaron

7. Josh Gibson

8. Cy Young (if pitchers are eligible) Tris Speaker (if pitchers aren't eligible)

[OleMissCub]

 

WARP3 should do it. Wagner posted a 210.7 score for his career, while Cobb comes in at 205.4, despite Cobb playing about 250 more games.

 

Do fielding stats factor into that at all? Seems like a shortstop would obviously have more assists, etc, than an outfielder.

[OleMissCub]

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ted Williams

3. Berry Bonds

4. Honus Wagner

5. Willie Mays

6. Hank Aaron

7. Josh Gibson

8. Cy Young (if pitchers are eligible) Tris Speaker (if pitchers aren't eligible)

 

They are.

[Rob]

 

WARP3 should do it. Wagner posted a 210.7 score for his career, while Cobb comes in at 205.4, despite Cobb playing about 250 more games.

 

Do fielding stats factor into that at all? Seems like a shortstop would obviously have more assists, etc, than an outfielder.

 

Yes, but they're adjusted for position (and Wagner did play all over the field).

 

Wagner comes in at 228 runs above average over his entire career, 1027 above replacement level.

 

Cobb comes in at 35 runs above average over his entire career, 559 above replacement level.

[wekse]

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ted Williams

3. Berry Bonds

4. Honus Wagner

5. Willie Mays

6. Hank Aaron

7. Josh Gibson

8. Cy Young

9. Lou Gehrig

[imb]

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ted Williams

3. Berry Bonds

4. Honus Wagner

5. Willie Mays

6. Hank Aaron

7. Josh Gibson

8. Cy Young

9. Lou Gehrig

10. Joe DiMaggio

[Transmogrified Tiger]

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ted Williams

3. Barry Bonds

4. Honus Wagner

5. Willie Mays

6. Hank Aaron

7. Josh Gibson

8. Cy Young

9. Lou Gehrig

10. Joe DiMaggio

11. Rickey Henderson

[OleMissCub]

Good top 10 all around. Certainly missing some of the usual suspects normally listed in top 10's: Johnson, Musial, Cobb, Hornsby, and Matthewson.