MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[cubsfan2210]

DEROSA played SS all the way up through the minors in the ATL system. He had no where to play when he got to the bigs because of rentaria and he couldnt move to second because of giles. Derosa had to move to utility player. This was in the VineLine with Fontenot and Theriot on the cover.

 

Renteria didn't block DeRosa in Atlanta. DeRo's last year with the Braves was 2004 and Edgar was in St. Louis at the time. When DeRosa came up, he was blocked by Walt Weiss (his first 2 years) and then Rafael Furcal at short. At second, he was blocked by Keith Lockhart, Quilvio Veras and then Giles.

 

He was always only a good utility player for the Braves and never was considered starter material until 05 when he went to Texas. He's played 138 career major league games at short and all but 24 of those came with Atlanta.

 

Well i was wrong with the players.

I think we play DeRo at short, if we get Roberts. Then if Pie struggles in center try Fukudome in center and Derosa in Right. Theriot at short.

[SouthSideRyan]

This has probably been asked, but does DeRosa have the arm to play SS? Could he gun down a runner on a ball fielded deep in the hole?

 

They are talking about middle infield on Sports Central. Kaplan is saying that the Cubs have already told Theriot that he is their guy at SS on opening day.

 

I don't think DeRosa is going to play SS.

How have the Cubs not realized Theriot sucks?

 

Nope, the conversation went something like ......Theriot is the Cubs guy and now that he knows he will be the everyday player, he will be in better shape coming into Spring Training next year. Apparently, the Cubs think he wore himself out last year.

 

Then the Cubs are idiots.

[dew1679666265]

DEROSA played SS all the way up through the minors in the ATL system. He had no where to play when he got to the bigs because of rentaria and he couldnt move to second because of giles. Derosa had to move to utility player. This was in the VineLine with Fontenot and Theriot on the cover.

 

Renteria didn't block DeRosa in Atlanta. DeRo's last year with the Braves was 2004 and Edgar was in St. Louis at the time. When DeRosa came up, he was blocked by Walt Weiss (his first 2 years) and then Rafael Furcal at short. At second, he was blocked by Keith Lockhart, Quilvio Veras and then Giles.

 

He was always only a good utility player for the Braves and never was considered starter material until 05 when he went to Texas. He's played 138 career major league games at short and all but 24 of those came with Atlanta.

 

Well i was wrong with the players.

 

Just trying to keep you in line. :wink:

 

I think we play DeRo at short, if we get Roberts. Then if Pie struggles in center try Fukudome in center and Derosa in Right. Theriot at short.

 

I really think Theriot will start the season at short, but if he struggles early (which is very likely) then Lou will ease DeRosa over there. He won't put up with Theriot if he doesn't perform.

[cubsfan2210]

DEROSA played SS all the way up through the minors in the ATL system. He had no where to play when he got to the bigs because of rentaria and he couldnt move to second because of giles. Derosa had to move to utility player. This was in the VineLine with Fontenot and Theriot on the cover.

 

Renteria didn't block DeRosa in Atlanta. DeRo's last year with the Braves was 2004 and Edgar was in St. Louis at the time. When DeRosa came up, he was blocked by Walt Weiss (his first 2 years) and then Rafael Furcal at short. At second, he was blocked by Keith Lockhart, Quilvio Veras and then Giles.

 

He was always only a good utility player for the Braves and never was considered starter material until 05 when he went to Texas. He's played 138 career major league games at short and all but 24 of those came with Atlanta.

 

Well i was wrong with the players.

 

Just trying to keep you in line. :wink:

 

I think we play DeRo at short, if we get Roberts. Then if Pie struggles in center try Fukudome in center and Derosa in Right. Theriot at short.

 

I really think Theriot will start the season at short, but if he struggles early (which is very likely) then Lou will ease DeRosa over there. He won't put up with Theriot if he doesn't perform.

 

Yeah i think we should start the season with Theriot. He really didnt do anything to lose his job.

[dew1679666265]

DEROSA played SS all the way up through the minors in the ATL system. He had no where to play when he got to the bigs because of rentaria and he couldnt move to second because of giles. Derosa had to move to utility player. This was in the VineLine with Fontenot and Theriot on the cover.

 

Renteria didn't block DeRosa in Atlanta. DeRo's last year with the Braves was 2004 and Edgar was in St. Louis at the time. When DeRosa came up, he was blocked by Walt Weiss (his first 2 years) and then Rafael Furcal at short. At second, he was blocked by Keith Lockhart, Quilvio Veras and then Giles.

 

He was always only a good utility player for the Braves and never was considered starter material until 05 when he went to Texas. He's played 138 career major league games at short and all but 24 of those came with Atlanta.

 

Well i was wrong with the players.

 

Just trying to keep you in line. :wink:

 

I think we play DeRo at short, if we get Roberts. Then if Pie struggles in center try Fukudome in center and Derosa in Right. Theriot at short.

 

I really think Theriot will start the season at short, but if he struggles early (which is very likely) then Lou will ease DeRosa over there. He won't put up with Theriot if he doesn't perform.

 

Yeah i think we should start the season with Theriot. He really didnt do anything to lose his job.

 

I don't think we should start the year with Theriot (if we acquire Roberts), I just think Lou will. Without Roberts, though, I don't have much of a problem going with Theriot over Cedeno.

[Proven Veteran]

Cedeno is a better fielder and most likely better hitter than Theriot. Free Ronny.

[Guest]

Seriously, free Ronny.

[Outshined_One]

Ronny Cedeno.

[anabiono]

cedeno is the new soto

[BCVM22]

cedeno is the new soto

 

Ronny Cedeno

[mdwilla]

Ronny Freakin Cedeno

[A New Era]

Ronny Soto.

[Butterscup1679666578]

Georonny Cedoto.

[davearm2]

Well at any rate, between Cedeno and DeRosa, it certainly seems reasonable to expect Theriot will be on a short leash.

 

If he's as awful as everyone seems to agree he is, then Lou will simply switch to one of the other two guys.

 

I've got no problem with that arrangement.

[cubsfan2210]

Career Stats:

 

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB BA OBP SLG

Ryan Theriot: 210 684 117 189 42 5 6 61 41 .276 .341 .379

 

Ronny Cedeno: 230 688 70 170 23 7 11 60 11 .247 .277 .349

[muntjack]

Career Stats:

 

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB BA OBP SLG

Ryan Theriot: 210 684 117 189 42 5 6 61 41 .276 .341 .379

 

Ronny Cedeno: 230 688 70 170 23 7 11 60 11 .247 .277 .349

 

 

359/.422/.557

 

That was Ronnys line in AAA last year at age 24. He has continued to show pbetter plate discipline in Venezuela. Theriot has NEVER put up numbers that come anywhere close. Why wouldn't you start the guy with at least the potential to be league average or above?

[inari]

DEROSA played SS all the way up through the minors in the ATL system. He had no where to play when he got to the bigs because of rentaria and he couldnt move to second because of giles. Derosa had to move to utility player. This was in the VineLine with Fontenot and Theriot on the cover.

 

Renteria didn't block DeRosa in Atlanta. DeRo's last year with the Braves was 2004 and Edgar was in St. Louis at the time. When DeRosa came up, he was blocked by Walt Weiss (his first 2 years) and then Rafael Furcal at short. At second, he was blocked by Keith Lockhart, Quilvio Veras and then Giles.

 

He was always only a good utility player for the Braves and never was considered starter material until 05 when he went to Texas. He's played 138 career major league games at short and all but 24 of those came with Atlanta.

 

Well i was wrong with the players.

 

Just trying to keep you in line. :wink:

 

I think we play DeRo at short, if we get Roberts. Then if Pie struggles in center try Fukudome in center and Derosa in Right. Theriot at short.

 

I really think Theriot will start the season at short, but if he struggles early (which is very likely) then Lou will ease DeRosa over there. He won't put up with Theriot if he doesn't perform.

 

Yeah i think we should start the season with Theriot. He really didnt do anything to lose his job.

 

You mean besides play baseball?

[cubsfan2210]

I love cedeno, dont get me wrong. But Theriot should keep his job for a few weeks or so, so we can see how he plays. If he should fade, then I would love to see Cedeno in that spot asap. But for now Lou is right, he should be our starting SS.

[badnews]

I don't buy that DeRosa is going to be the shortstop one bit.

[craig]

It's a long season. What's expected in December and what's reality in June or August are often rather different. Izturis was much more entrenched last December. Hardly anybody but the most rabid optomist was projecting Marmol to be the top reliever. And who imagined that Geo Soto would be the starting catcher, and an asset bat?

 

things change, and the fact that Theriot is the projected starter doesn't mean that will stay. Ditto with Marquis and dempster.

 

The deal isn't done yet, so we'll see if the names are correct. But I think it's telling that Cedeno is not involved. Orioles have a major hole at SS. You'd think they'd prefer Cedeno over EPatt or Murton, if they scouted him favorably.

 

I think there's a good chance that Cedeno isn't involved not because O's didn't want him, but because the Cubs didn't include him in the pool of players from which Baltimore was alowed to choose.

 

If that hypothesis is correct, it's pertinent. Why wouldn't the Cubs have included him? At least two obvious possibilities. One is that they like Cedeno a lot, and think he's got a chance to become the SS. Another is that perhaps they don't like DeRosa at SS, in which case dealing Cedeno would leave them without a Theriot alternative or a SS backup.

[badnews]

There's a few other things to take into account. Many believe, Meph included, that DeRosa won't repeat the season he had last year next year.

 

I like how you put in there "Meph included" like, "Heh, if you're not sold on that, then there's NO WAY you can't believe it after I include that."

 

Anyway, I don't think acquiring Roberts makes us paper champs. I think it's weird people don't mind giving up Gallagher's #3 potential, but we're falling over ourselves to acquire Joe Blanton, a guy who looks like Josh Towers away from Oakland.

 

I wonder - how come if we get Roberts, Soriano can't leadoff and Roberts can't hit 2nd? Soriano just makes me nervous. I don't like tinkering with him. Dropping him in the lineup could cost production, he's just not well suited to hitting in an RBI spot it seems. It also seems like if we upgraded at shortstop it would outstrip the improvement of going from DeRosa to Roberts. I mean, we were above average in production at 2nd last year, Mark DeRosa was an .848 OPS hitter when he played 2nd, but everywhere else he wasn't so great... we had the worst production out of shortstop as any team in the NL last year, I think our shortstop OPS was like 140 points below the NL average... I don't see the picture as rosily as everyone else.

[muntjack]

. One is that they like Cedeno a lot, and think he's got a chance to become the SS.

 

This is the feeling I've had all along. If they didn't feel this way, I believe they would've gotten a veteran SS to backup Ryan by now. Perhaps Ronny hasn't dealt well with pressure at the ML level and they want to let him get comfortable before benching Theriot.

[muntjack]

Brian Roberts:

 

2001: .625 OPS in 273 AB

 

2002: .605 OPS in 128 AB

 

2003: .704 OPS in 460 AB

 

2004: .720 OPS in 641 AB

 

After this many ABs at this level of production, do you think Roberts felt some pressure to put up #s?

 

2005: .902 OPS in 561 AB

 

 

1 time? I don't buy it.

[TruffleShuffle]

keep ronny in jail/AAA

[craig]

..Anyway, I don't think acquiring Roberts makes us paper champs. I think it's weird people don't mind giving up Gallagher's #3 potential, but we're falling over ourselves to acquire Joe Blanton, a guy who looks like Josh Towers away from Oakland.

 

I wonder - how come if we get Roberts, Soriano can't leadoff and Roberts can't hit 2nd? Soriano just makes me nervous. I don't like tinkering with him. Dropping him in the lineup could cost production, he's just not well suited to hitting in an RBI spot it seems. It also seems like if we upgraded at shortstop it would outstrip the improvement of going from DeRosa to Roberts. I mean, we were above average in production at 2nd last year, Mark DeRosa was an .848 OPS hitter when he played 2nd, but everywhere else he wasn't so great... we had the worst production out of shortstop as any team in the NL last year, I think our shortstop OPS was like 140 points below the NL average... I don't see the picture as rosily as everyone else.

 

Had somebody offered an all-star SS for Gallagher? I hadn't been aware of that. I'd have preferred that, too.

 

I fully agree that Soriano in an RBI spot creates problems. Which is why I'm 95% certain that, barring some other move, that Soriano will still lead off. Soriano and Roberts will bat 1st-2nd. Lou likes the speed at the top, and they will provide that abundantly. Pie and Theriot at 7/8 will also provide good speed. Roberts 2nd is a good bat-handler, so I expect Lou will attempt some hit-and-runs on the rare occassions when Soriano is on 1st base. Roberts 2nd will be a good OBP man immediately in front of our best hitters. And Roberts second will help to break up some of the RH hitters. Soriano and Lee will be separated by lefty roberts. Aram and Soto will be separated by left Fuku. Soto and Theriot/Cedeno/DeRosa will be separated by lefty Pie. So I think the lineup could lay out pretty well. Except for when Soriano isn't doing anything. And accept for the possibility that Pie-Cedeno could be automatic outs at 7 and 8.

 

I think the efficiency of the lineup could rest heavily on Pie and SS. If Pie could hit .270, hit 12 HR's, and sustain a .310 OBP and not be a total auto-out but make some contribution, that would help a ton. And if SS can give you something, that too will help. I'm not talking .800 OPS. But if Cedeno was playing and hitting .275 with a .330 OBP and a .720 OPS, that would be a big help. Or if Theriot can hit .285 and sustain a .340 OBP while batting 8th, that would help to keep innings going, set up the top of the order, drive in some runs, etc..

 

I think our 3-6 could have pretty good OBP. And there could be a lot of RBI opportunities for the 7th and 8th hitters. If they fail them all, it will hurt. Last spring, it seemed things would always set up so that Izturis ended up in the RBI situation, and it seemed (probably selective memory) that he'd always make the 3rd out or hit into a DP if there was only one out or make some weak non-RBI contact if there wasn't a guy on first to enable the DP.

 

But if we could get professional hitting from 7 and 8, it will make a big difference.