Wood and Prior

[David]

Resigning him is a risk, but considering his upside and the fact that he has finally had surgery, the Cubs should be able to spare a bit of payroll to take one last crack at it.

 

I think this is a difficult situation. If Prior doesn't want to accept the 20% pay cut of (does anyone know what his salary is?) he can refuse. Isn't that a lot of money to spend on a guy that won't pitch for 2008? I'm guessing 3.75 or so.

 

 

Huh?

 

Isn't it possible that he won't pitch in 2008? I think it's quite possible.

 

Possible. It seemed like you were stating it as fact, which would've been news to me. Seems unlikely, though, unless he just flat out has some major complications in his recovery from surgery, in which case it probably would be time to completely give up on him. Otherwise, he's slated to pitch competitively early next season (not opening day, though). To me, it's just a question of how well he'll pitch and what kind of stuff he has. I'd be interested in seeing how long it took Carpenter to get his stuff back after he started pitching again.

Edited November 6, 2007 by David

[Have a seat, Neifi]

I think it would be a boneheaded move for the Cubs to let Prior rehab for most of 4 seasons, finally find enough wrong with him to have a surgery and then let a player with his talent go before we figure out what he has got.

My thoughts exactly.

[CubinNY]

Hendry and the Cubs have "thrown under the bus" Prior more times than one during his time in the Cubs organization. If I'm Prior I'm not resigning with the Cubs unless it is an offer I cannot refuse.

 

At the same time I don't think Hendry's demands are that outrageous. It's not like they haven't paid him for the last couple of years.

 

I'm not good at these predictions, but I think Prior will be pitching elsewhere in 2008. I imagine somewhere on the West Coast.

 

It's a shame.

[Bruno7481]

I think it would be a boneheaded move for the Cubs to let Prior rehab for most of 4 seasons, finally find enough wrong with him to have a surgery and then let a player with his talent go before we figure out what he has got.

 

Problem is, this wasn't a slam dunk surgery. It was exploratory. Who knows if it will be successful or not.

[David]

I think it would be a boneheaded move for the Cubs to let Prior rehab for most of 4 seasons, finally find enough wrong with him to have a surgery and then let a player with his talent go before we figure out what he has got.

 

Problem is, this wasn't a slam dunk surgery. It was exploratory. Who knows if it will be successful or not.

 

It started out as exploratory, they found a bunch wrong (what a surprise), and from all reports, were able to fix everything up nicely.

[David]

I'd actually be really interested in hearing what Will Carrol might know about Prior's situation right now. He seems to be pretty spot on in these cases.

[biittner77]

The Cubs have galdly spent 4 million on players a lot worse than Prior. Even if he wasn't available until after the ASB that means they'd be paying him less than what they're paying Marquis.

 

I doubt the team option sounds nearly as bad of an idea to Prior. It would only be one year and it probably helps him get a bigger payday in the long run if he returns to form. If he doesn't than it won't matter much to him or anyone else.

[CuseCubFan69]

I think it would be a boneheaded move for the Cubs to let Prior rehab for most of 4 seasons, finally find enough wrong with him to have a surgery and then let a player with his talent go before we figure out what he has got.

 

Problem is, this wasn't a slam dunk surgery. It was exploratory. Who knows if it will be successful or not.

 

It started out as exploratory, they found a bunch wrong (what a surprise), and from all reports, were able to fix everything up nicely.

 

Can't a player go get tests done on his own to check the shoulder or does it have to be ok with the team to do so?

[USSoccer]

Like others have said, Hendry's position is understandable.

 

From Prior's point of view, financially speaking it makes some sense to grant the Cubs a 2009 option. Assuming he loses half of 2008 while gaining arm strength, 2009 would be a good showcase year for him.

 

However, I've never gotten the sense that Prior has been happy here. The media have scapegoated him and called him soft at every opportunity, and the organization hasn't exactly been supportive.

 

I hope he's back, but I could see him being cut loose.

[KingCubsFan]

Hendry and the Cubs have "thrown under the bus" Prior more times than one during his time in the Cubs organization. If I'm Prior I'm not resigning with the Cubs unless it is an offer I cannot refuse.

 

At the same time I don't think Hendry's demands are that outrageous. It's not like they haven't paid him for the last couple of years.

 

I'm not good at these predictions, but I think Prior will be pitching elsewhere in 2008. I imagine somewhere on the West Coast.

 

It's a shame.

How have the Cubs thrown Prior under a bus? If anything, they've protected him more than he's probably deserved. They've kept everyone in the dark about his various injuries for years and been patient with his various recoveries. Any talk of Prior being soft or faking injuries has come from outside the organization, not from Hendry, Baker, Piniella, or any of the players.

[Outshined_One]

It's also possible he might never pitch again. We don't know enough to make that kind of a judgment.

 

Hendry knows more about Prior's medical situation than anyone on this board. He knows whether Prior has it in him to make a full recovery or, barring that, enough of a recovery to be an effective pitcher next season and the season after that. If Prior comes back next year with just a one year deal and pitches lights out, he'll be due a heck of a pay raise and would attract a ton of attention from other teams looking for pitching. An option for 2009 would be greatly beneficial for the Cubs since they could either cut ties with him if he's not producing or they could keep him for 2009 if he pitches like the other team owes him money in 2008.

 

The one thing I'd absolutely hate to see is the Cubs letting him go and seeing him make a full recovery with another team. St. Louis immediately comes to mind.

[SouthSideRyan]

Hendry and the Cubs have "thrown under the bus" Prior more times than one during his time in the Cubs organization. If I'm Prior I'm not resigning with the Cubs unless it is an offer I cannot refuse.

 

At the same time I don't think Hendry's demands are that outrageous. It's not like they haven't paid him for the last couple of years.

 

I'm not good at these predictions, but I think Prior will be pitching elsewhere in 2008. I imagine somewhere on the West Coast.

 

It's a shame.

How have the Cubs thrown Prior under a bus? If anything, they've protected him more than he's probably deserved. They've kept everyone in the dark about his various injuries for years and been patient with his various recoveries. Any talk of Prior being soft or faking injuries has come from outside the organization, not from Hendry, Baker, Piniella, or any of the players.

 

Baker pretty much called him a headcase in the media. There's been insinuations for the past few years be it directly, or via "anonymous team officials" calling Prior soft implying that he wasn't willing to pitch through discomfort like a real man would.

[CubColtPacer]

The 3 million for Prior is much better spent looking at 2009 and beyond for him. You're not likely to get 3 million of production out of him next year, but if he comes back and re-signs he'll make up for that in the years following. At the same time, that means the club has to be reasonably certain that he'll re-sign with the team. Obviously, a club option is the best way to do that. If a club option isn't possible, the team has to figure out why Prior does not want to sign that option. If he's refusing because of a low money figure, that's one thing. If he's refusing because he doesn't want to re-sign with the Cubs after 2008, then the club cannot waste the money and sign him.

 

If the Cubs cut him loose, I'm not sure we'll ever know if it was a mistake or not, because Prior isn't likely to come out publicly and say that he didn't want to sign with the Cubs again even if that's what he thinks.

[Butterscup1679666578]

Based on how Wood performed at the end of the season, I'm fully for Wood being the closer.

 

As for Prior, if he doesn't give us an option then I have no problem watching him walk away.

[Irrelevant Dude]

Based on how Wood performed at the end of the season, I'm fully for Wood being the closer.

 

As for Prior, if he doesn't give us an option then I have no problem watching him walk away.

Agree on both points. I would be hesitant promising Wood a starting job, but if we can get him signed to a multi-year deal at an average closer salary I would be all for that. Regarding Prior, I'd rather spend that money elsewhere instead of paying him for another rehab year. At some point the Cubs just need to let go and hope it doesn't come back to bite them.

[Lefty]

I just wonder if we could have prevailed on the MLBPA grievance had we left Prior on the Iowa roster. Then he wouldn't have accrued MLB service time this year giving the Cubs two arbitration years. Those on this board who weighed in were pretty sure the Cubs would have lost that battle and created (even more) ill will in the Prior camp.

[USSoccer]

I just wonder if we could have prevailed on the MLBPA grievance had we left Prior on the Iowa roster. Then he wouldn't have accrued MLB service time this year giving the Cubs two arbitration years. Those on this board who weighed in were pretty sure the Cubs would have lost that battle and created (even more) ill will in the Prior camp.

 

On the flip side, the fact that the Cubs didn't pursue the grievance might have added to the goodwill on our side.

[Keener98]

Whats funny is Hendry and the Cubs staff put themselves in this situation. They waited what, 2 years, before actually going all out on trying to find out what was wrong with Prior? I think its amazing that he kept saying he was hurt, you could tell he was hurt, but the Cubs wait till middle of last year to get an MRI, and find out what exactly was wrong with Mark. If they would have went in and done the exploratory surgery say 6 months after the 1st time Prior said he was hurting Hendry and the Cubs wouldnt be in this situation. Instead they acted like Prior wasnt really hurt, kept rehabbing him, instead of finding out what was actually wrong.

[CuseCubFan69]

Whats funny is Hendry and the Cubs staff put themselves in this situation. They waited what, 2 years, before actually going all out on trying to find out what was wrong with Prior? I think its amazing that he kept saying he was hurt, you could tell he was hurt, but the Cubs wait till middle of last year to get an MRI, and find out what exactly was wrong with Mark. If they would have went in and done the exploratory surgery say 6 months after the 1st time Prior said he was hurting Hendry and the Cubs wouldnt be in this situation. Instead they acted like Prior wasnt really hurt, kept rehabbing him, instead of finding out what was actually wrong.

 

I have to believe that Prior is a big boy and is responsible for his own body. Now, if the Cubs said..."No, you can't get an MRI or see a Dr. about your shoulder" you may have a point but I doubt that is the case. From what I've read about Prior he seems to be pretty conscience about his body and I can't see him just accepting this type of injury.

[Keener98]

Whats funny is Hendry and the Cubs staff put themselves in this situation. They waited what, 2 years, before actually going all out on trying to find out what was wrong with Prior? I think its amazing that he kept saying he was hurt, you could tell he was hurt, but the Cubs wait till middle of last year to get an MRI, and find out what exactly was wrong with Mark. If they would have went in and done the exploratory surgery say 6 months after the 1st time Prior said he was hurting Hendry and the Cubs wouldnt be in this situation. Instead they acted like Prior wasnt really hurt, kept rehabbing him, instead of finding out what was actually wrong.

 

I have to believe that Prior is a big boy and is responsible for his own body. Now, if the Cubs said..."No, you can't get an MRI or see a Dr. about your shoulder" you may have a point but I doubt that is the case. From what I've read about Prior he seems to be pretty conscience about his body and I can't see him just accepting this type of injury.

 

 

He is the Cubs property, and under contract of the Chicago Cubs. If they tell him to get an MRI, or get surgery, then thats what he has to do. I truly believe the Cubs, and Hendry, didnt believe anything major was wrong with him, and that has been hinted in reports throughout this entire Prior saga.

[CuseCubFan69]

Whats funny is Hendry and the Cubs staff put themselves in this situation. They waited what, 2 years, before actually going all out on trying to find out what was wrong with Prior? I think its amazing that he kept saying he was hurt, you could tell he was hurt, but the Cubs wait till middle of last year to get an MRI, and find out what exactly was wrong with Mark. If they would have went in and done the exploratory surgery say 6 months after the 1st time Prior said he was hurting Hendry and the Cubs wouldnt be in this situation. Instead they acted like Prior wasnt really hurt, kept rehabbing him, instead of finding out what was actually wrong.

 

I have to believe that Prior is a big boy and is responsible for his own body. Now, if the Cubs said..."No, you can't get an MRI or see a Dr. about your shoulder" you may have a point but I doubt that is the case. From what I've read about Prior he seems to be pretty conscience about his body and I can't see him just accepting this type of injury.

 

 

He is the Cubs property, and under contract of the Chicago Cubs. If they tell him to get an MRI, or get surgery, then thats what he has to do. I truly believe the Cubs, and Hendry, didnt believe anything major was wrong with him, and that has been hinted in reports throughout this entire Prior saga.

 

If the Cubs were that negligent then they deserve what they get. If this is true I just could not understand how somebody could run a business like that. Heck, get a stupid MRI and whatever you have to do with your players for Gods sake. Be proactive. That being said, Prior is the Cubs property but since baseball is a business and each player is almost like an independent contractor I don't understand why Prior himself wouldn't take some of these health matters into his own hands. The MLB union has a million things out there to protect their members and I find it hard to believe they would let something this big slide.

[CubColtPacer]

Whats funny is Hendry and the Cubs staff put themselves in this situation. They waited what, 2 years, before actually going all out on trying to find out what was wrong with Prior? I think its amazing that he kept saying he was hurt, you could tell he was hurt, but the Cubs wait till middle of last year to get an MRI, and find out what exactly was wrong with Mark. If they would have went in and done the exploratory surgery say 6 months after the 1st time Prior said he was hurting Hendry and the Cubs wouldnt be in this situation. Instead they acted like Prior wasnt really hurt, kept rehabbing him, instead of finding out what was actually wrong.

 

According to reports I read over the years, the Cubs recommended surgery on a couple of occasions. Prior was the one who chose to try to go the non-surgical route in hopes of getting back faster.

[Keener98]

Whats funny is Hendry and the Cubs staff put themselves in this situation. They waited what, 2 years, before actually going all out on trying to find out what was wrong with Prior? I think its amazing that he kept saying he was hurt, you could tell he was hurt, but the Cubs wait till middle of last year to get an MRI, and find out what exactly was wrong with Mark. If they would have went in and done the exploratory surgery say 6 months after the 1st time Prior said he was hurting Hendry and the Cubs wouldnt be in this situation. Instead they acted like Prior wasnt really hurt, kept rehabbing him, instead of finding out what was actually wrong.

 

According to reports I read over the years, the Cubs recommended surgery on a couple of occasions. Prior was the one who chose to try to go the non-surgical route in hopes of getting back faster.

 

I dont remember that at all. And even so, thats fine after the first 6 months go by, but after that the Cubs could have, and should have said surgery time, no more wasting time.

[Lefty]

I just wonder if we could have prevailed on the MLBPA grievance had we left Prior on the Iowa roster. Then he wouldn't have accrued MLB service time this year giving the Cubs two arbitration years. Those on this board who weighed in were pretty sure the Cubs would have lost that battle and created (even more) ill will in the Prior camp.

 

On the flip side, the fact that the Cubs didn't pursue the grievance might have added to the goodwill on our side.

 

I'm a glass half-empty guy. Accruing of goodwill doesn't matter when there is money at stake. If Prior doesn't end up salvaging a career, no matter where, it would be really sad.

[CubColtPacer]

Whats funny is Hendry and the Cubs staff put themselves in this situation. They waited what, 2 years, before actually going all out on trying to find out what was wrong with Prior? I think its amazing that he kept saying he was hurt, you could tell he was hurt, but the Cubs wait till middle of last year to get an MRI, and find out what exactly was wrong with Mark. If they would have went in and done the exploratory surgery say 6 months after the 1st time Prior said he was hurting Hendry and the Cubs wouldnt be in this situation. Instead they acted like Prior wasnt really hurt, kept rehabbing him, instead of finding out what was actually wrong.

 

According to reports I read over the years, the Cubs recommended surgery on a couple of occasions. Prior was the one who chose to try to go the non-surgical route in hopes of getting back faster.

 

I dont remember that at all. And even so, thats fine after the first 6 months go by, but after that the Cubs could have, and should have said surgery time, no more wasting time.

 

The Cubs don't have the right to say that. They can't force the player to have surgery. If they want to cut him because he refuses to have surgery, that's their right, but a club cannot do more than recommend that a player goes under the knife. Should the Cubs have told Prior that he was either going to have surgery or they were releasing him? IMO, no. That would have been way too drastic, and there would be some legal issues I think even with a threat like that.