Aramis Ramirez

[BigbadB]

Learn somethin' new everyday. Hmm.

 

Oh, and I still believe Aramis deserves the Gold Glove.

[Shilzzz]

Count me as another who had no idea that Manny and Aramis are cousins, despite always seeing a lot of similarities among the two.

[CubmanPi]

Oh, and I still believe Aramis deserves the Gold Glove.

I do too. I don't remember where, but there's been once or twice where I've seen a mention of the Cubs not having any legitimate gold glove candidates. It's mind-boggling that he doesn't seem to have any real chance at the award.

[Andy]

Learn somethin' new everyday. Hmm.

 

Oh, and I still believe Aramis deserves the Gold Glove.

Maybe next year if he keeps playing like that on defense, he'll force people to take notice. But I doubt they will.

[ninetynineplus]

Aramis Ramirez is one of the most underrated players in baseball.

 

exactly. if dude was in new york or boston or even st louis, the major networks wouldn't shut up about him.

 

I don't think it has anything to do with the city he plays in. He has a negative stigma around him because of his early career in Pittsburgh, and the stupid people in baseball(most analysts) won't let go of it.

 

i'm hungover and too lazy to look up the numbers, but what was the deal in pittsburgh?? was he just not that good??

[haltz]

Maybe next year if he keeps playing like that on defense, he'll force people to take notice. But I doubt they will.

This non-Cubs fan has noticed. He's definitely fighting an uphill battle with regards to the actual vote though.

 

At the ASB, Rolen was somehow having a career year defensively and on pace to better Ramirez in UZR by 23 runs/150. Small sample size and Rolen's shoulder is messed up etc, but I'm curious to see how the final numbers look.

 

David Wright has been a much better hitter this year, and unless Rolen just has ridiculous staying power with the voters, I bet he'll get it. Both Wright and Ramirez are much improved on defense. Using those same ASB numbers, they were about even on pace to be +11/12 runs above average. Pedro Feliz might be the best of the bunch but he won't ever hit enough I guess.

 

He's not easily outhitting Manny this year, whoever said that. He has a .4 edge in BtRuns. And count me as someone else who had no idea they were cousins.

[jjgman21]

Maybe next year if he keeps playing like that on defense, he'll force people to take notice. But I doubt they will.

This non-Cubs fan has noticed. He's definitely fighting an uphill battle with regards to the actual vote though.

 

At the ASB, Rolen was somehow having a career year defensively and on pace to better Ramirez in UZR by 23 runs/150. Small sample size and Rolen's shoulder is messed up etc, but I'm curious to see how the final numbers look.

 

David Wright has been a much better hitter this year, and unless Rolen just has ridiculous staying power with the voters, I bet he'll get it. Both Wright and Ramirez are much improved on defense. Using those same ASB numbers, they were about even on pace to be +11/12 runs above average. Pedro Feliz might be the best of the bunch but he won't ever hit enough I guess.

 

He's not easily outhitting Manny this year, whoever said that. He has a .4 edge in BtRuns. And count me as someone else who had no idea they were cousins.

 

Wright has not really been a "much better" hitter this year. he's taken a few more walks and stolen bases.

 

all the talk of the MVP candidates is it will come down to Holliday, Rollins, Wright, and Fielder.

 

Holliday and Fielder, I can understand. they deserve to be there. but Wright isn't even the best third baseman in his division, unless you are enamored with stolen bases. in all honesty, I would put him third, behind Miggy and Chipper. Rollins is the third or fourth most valuable player on his team, yet he is spoken of like he's the third or fourth most valuable player in the league.

 

in other words, the media selection of who the 'finalists' are is completely random. I think the formula comes down to:

 

1. someone from a NY team

2. someone from another east coast team in order to stir east coast debate

3. someone from a west division team in order to stir east coast v. west coast debate

4. a dark horse from a competitive team to make themselves look insightful (conveniently they are able to narrow their group to 4 since Holliday fills two of these rolls)

5. the player who actually deserves it.

 

 

what was hilarious about last years AL voting is the contestant from catagory 4 won.

[haltz]

Wright has not really been a "much better" hitter this year. he's taken a few more walks and stolen bases.

He's got another 100 PA, 44 TB, 48 BB, 31 SB at an 86% success rate, etc. He's got him by 19 pts of OPS+. He's right in between Chipper (50.8) and Cabrera (47.6) at 48.4 btRuns which is more than double Ramirez' contributions (above the average anyway). He's much better with the glove than the two guys in his division this year.

 

all the talk of the MVP candidates is it will come down to Holliday, Rollins, Wright, and Fielder.

I'm just talking about the Gold Glove. All else equal, it seems like the guy who has the better year at the plate wins it. These are the same guys that vote for Jeter all the time, so trying to explain it is probably a fool's errand though.

[jjgman21]

Wright has not really been a "much better" hitter this year. he's taken a few more walks and stolen bases.

He's got another 100 PA, 44 TB, 48 BB, 31 SB at an 86% success rate, etc. He's got him by 19 pts of OPS+. He's right in between Chipper (50.8) and Cabrera (47.6) at 48.4 btRuns which is more than double Ramirez' contributions (above the average anyway). He's much better with the glove than the two guys in his division this year.

 

 

I think you just made my point. he's got better counting stats because he's been healthier. other than that, he has a slight edge in OPS, due almost exclusively to taking a few more walks. stealing bases does go toward being an offensive player, but it has nothing to do with how good of a hitter someone is.

[imb]

Doesn't he have like a 40 point advantage in OBP? Over 100 more at bats or whatever it is, that's a pretty significant number.

[haltz]

I think you just made my point. he's got better counting stats because he's been healthier. other than that, he has a slight edge in OPS, due almost exclusively to taking a few more walks.

I think that being healthy matters for these stupid awards, and I said OPS+ not OPS. 19 pts is a big deal. Check out the park factors for Shea and Wrigley. So are 38 walks which is what you get if you pro-rated Ramirez' totals.

 

Wright has an advantage of 1.5 RC/G. Does that help? A .336 EqA versus a .307 EqA? All I'm doing here is looking up random stats here that tell me Wright's had a better year at the plate.

 

stealing bases does go toward being an offensive player, but it has nothing to do with how good of a hitter someone is.

And none of it should have anything to do with the Gold Glove, but for some reason it does.

[CuseCubFan69]

Is Ramirez he better than Madlock was? Is he catching up to Santo?

[WrigleyinEngland]

This thread makes me smile, as i spent nearly $300 on an Aram authentic shirt you can tell whose corner i'm in....what i'm getting at is does anyone remember how the chicago media and some cubs 'fans' treated him when he went through a cold spell last year after D-lee was injured? sure like to read some of those articles about now!!

[David]

for ESPN to consider him an MVP it is necessary to have a quaint name like

"big Papi" or Manny with dredlocks, but if he continues this pace into let's say a WS (knock on wood, not Kerry that is) then he could sill claim a MVP.

 

As long as Derosa stays hot, I think he is the unsung hero of this team

 

Unless you meant a World Series MVP, just pointing out that he couldn't win NL MVP based on any playoff performance. Voting is done before the playoffs begin.

[David]

Is Ramirez he better than Madlock was? Is he catching up to Santo?

 

 

Catching up?

 

I know I'm biased to a point, because I'm of a younger generation that never saw Santo play, but I'd say that the Ramirez we have right now at least matches up (I hate to say better/worse because it's tough to compare eras) with Santo in his prime.

 

Whether Ram puts up an entire career to match up/exceed Santo's remains to be seen, but I'd say he's pretty well on his way with the way he has performed since 2004. It would take a lot of durability, though, and he still has a ways to go.

[CubColtPacer]

Is Ramirez he better than Madlock was? Is he catching up to Santo?

 

 

Catching up?

 

I know I'm biased to a point, because I'm of a younger generation that never saw Santo play, but I'd say that the Ramirez we have right now at least matches up (I hate to say better/worse because it's tough to compare eras) with Santo in his prime.

 

Whether Ram puts up an entire career to match up/exceed Santo's remains to be seen, but I'd say he's pretty well on his way with the way he has performed since 2004.

 

OPS+ would disagree with you. Santo's best 5 seasons were 164, 161, 153, 146, and 138. Ramirez's best 5 so far are 137, 136, 132, 126, and 125. So Santo's peak was a lot better than Ramirez's at least according to that metric.

[inari]

I want to address a common misconception here: Rammy and Manny are not cousins. It says that in a wikipedia article, but it's wrong. They're not related.

[haltz]

24 year old Ron Santo and 24 year old David Wright are pretty similar. They have practically identical EqAs (.336/.337) and 13ish WARP3s. Both above average fielders according to FRAA, and probably actual above average fielders to boot.

[SABR Gamer]

I want to address a common misconception here: Rammy and Manny are not cousins. It says that in a wikipedia article, but it's wrong. They're not related.

 

you know this how? I have seen it been mentioned in multiple places not just wikipedia. I'm curious as to where u get your information

[Careless]

I want to address a common misconception here: Rammy and Manny are not cousins. It says that in a wikipedia article, but it's wrong. They're not related.

Really depends on your definition of "cousin"