Why Don't the Cubs Hit Leftys Well?

[kente777]

I have to admit, I'm a tad bit worried this weekend with Pittsburgh trotting out three leftys against us.

 

I was curious, do all teams have trouble with lefty's because of the rarity of good left-handed pitching, or is this a Cubs thing? I mean, we should hit lefties well because of our predominant right-handed line-up. Someone suggested that it is because we don't take a lot of batting practice against lefties.

 

Ideas?

[Little Slide Rooter]

Lefties are always tough to hit, which makes them a premium and as long as they're not god awful, they'll always get a job.

 

However, the Cubs are especially bad against them, and Craig Monroe was supposed to be an answer to that proble, but so far that hasnt worked out too well.

[CuseCubFan69]

I think it's partly that the Cubs don't have a CF that can help put some damage on them. They trot Jones out there with Floyd and hurts. If they put Murton out there with Jones, that helps and that guy they got from the Tigers hasn't done a thing, let's hope he wakes up this weekend.

 

How'd Soto do with Lefties? That might help too.

Edited September 21, 2007 by CuseCubFan69

[anabiono]

i have a feeling monroe gets that homer this weekend...maybe even two or three

 

he is WAY over due

[FergieJ31]

I have to admit, I'm a tad bit worried this weekend with Pittsburgh trotting out three leftys against us.

 

I was curious, do all teams have trouble with lefty's because of the rarity of good left-handed pitching, or is this a Cubs thing? I mean, we should hit lefties well because of our predominant right-handed line-up. Someone suggested that it is because we don't take a lot of batting practice against lefties.

 

Ideas?

 

I think the lefty part is a red herring: the Cubs (or pretty much any team for that matter) don't fare well against finesse pitchers w/good control that change speeds well. The southpaws who have faced the Cubs this year tend to fall into this category.

[Backtobanks]

I don't have the answer, but the question has stumped all of the baseball "experts" all season. With Soriano, Lee, Ramirez, Murton, and Barrett (earlier in the season), you would think they would be killing lefties. If I were an opposing manager, not only would I line up my starting rotation so that I had lefties facing the Cubs, I would call up any lefty minor leaguer to face them.

[3Dog]

Perhaps I'm painting with broad brush strokes, but lefties are usually finesse types that works all the edges of the strike zone. Naturally this would give the Cub offense fits, given their impatient and aggressive approach.

[Bull]

I think it's partly that the Cubs don't have a CF that can help put some damage on them. They trot Jones out there with Floyd and hurts. If they put Murton out there with Jones, that helps and that guy they got from the Tigers hasn't done a thing, let's hope he wakes up this weekend.

 

How'd Soto do with Lefties? That might help too.

 

Soto...mmmm

[CubinNY]

no patience, it is that simple.

[jjgman21]

I think there are a variety of reasons that fall under two broad headings.

 

the first being the Cubs approach is to stack the lineup with righties. as others have touched on, the lefties we have problems with are generally finesse pitchers, aka, the change up is one of their predominant pitches. change up pitchers often have reverse splits. it also creates the situation that Brenly has touched on several times. with all righties, the pitcher can zone in on one approach to getting the entire lineup out and really zero his location in with those pitches.

 

the second was also touched on but the thought under developed. I think laying it on being overly aggressive is too simplistic. the Cubs right handed hitters for the most part are all pretty similar in that they are straight up and down hitters that are pull conscious. few of them are the type that dives over the plate to get at outside pitches. they all see that slow roller on the outside corner and try to muscle up on it instead of lining it to rightfield. the result is they fall right into the soft tossing lefties hands and hit groundball to short after lazy fly to left after groundball to short.

[jjgman21]

no patience, it is that simple.

 

if that were the case, I would think it would show up in P/PA and IsoD.

 

P/PA

v. lefties - 3.73

v. righties - 3.73

 

IsoD

v. lefties 61

v. righties 62

 

they are not appreciably more patient against righties than they are against lefties.

[CubinNY]

no patience, it is that simple.

 

if that were the case, I would think it would show up in P/PA and IsoD.

 

P/PA

v. lefties - 3.73

v. righties - 3.73

 

IsoD

v. lefties 61

v. righties 62

 

they are not appreciably more patient against righties than they are against lefties.

And that's the problem.

[Guest]

How'd Soto do with Lefties? That might help too.

 

Against lefties: .314/.390/.587/.977 (121 AB).

 

Of course, he was even better against righties: .363/.434/.683/1.117 (262 AB).

[CuseCubFan69]

no patience, it is that simple.

 

if that were the case, I would think it would show up in P/PA and IsoD.

 

P/PA

v. lefties - 3.73

v. righties - 3.73

 

IsoD

v. lefties 61

v. righties 62

 

they are not appreciably more patient against righties than they are against lefties.

And that's the problem.

 

Unless I'm reading that wrong, aren't they about the same?

[CuseCubFan69]

How'd Soto do with Lefties? That might help too.

 

Against lefties: .314/.390/.587/.977 (121 AB).

 

Of course, he was even better against righties: .363/.434/.683/1.117 (262 AB).

 

Would he make a bigger impact than Kendall for what the Cubs need to beat a lefty? Also, are the lefties the Pirates throwing hard throwers or do they change speeds well?

[jjgman21]

no patience, it is that simple.

 

if that were the case, I would think it would show up in P/PA and IsoD.

 

P/PA

v. lefties - 3.73

v. righties - 3.73

 

IsoD

v. lefties 61

v. righties 62

 

they are not appreciably more patient against righties than they are against lefties.

And that's the problem.

 

the Cubs do just fine with the exact same amount of patience v. righties. the question at hand is why don't they fair well against lefties. so an overall more patient approach has some inherent ability to close the gap between what a team does against lefties v. what they do against righties? or is success v. lefties somehow dependent on having more patience against them as opposed to righties?

Edited September 21, 2007 by jjgman21

[BigbadB]

The Cubs are bad against lefties, but they were horrid last year.

 

I'm in agreement that they have to get some looks before swinging the bat. Instead of swinging at balls out of the zone, hope that the umpire has a tight strike zone so that the counts start working in the hitter's favor.

[Guest]

How'd Soto do with Lefties? That might help too.

 

Against lefties: .314/.390/.587/.977 (121 AB).

 

Of course, he was even better against righties: .363/.434/.683/1.117 (262 AB).

 

Would he make a bigger impact than Kendall for what the Cubs need to beat a lefty? Also, are the lefties the Pirates throwing hard throwers or do they change speeds well?

 

Jason Kendall is doing better against righties than lefties this season - neither of his splits compare to Soto's #s in the minors. I think Soto is a better option against all pitchers, he has a good approach (not as good as Kendall's) and much, much more power.

 

Maholm is good with his command changing speeds. Duke has better stuff and throws harder. Neither has been that good this season, though (Duke especially). Don't know who the third lefty for Pittsburgh is.

[rawaction]

How'd Soto do with Lefties? That might help too.

 

Against lefties: .314/.390/.587/.977 (121 AB).

 

Of course, he was even better against righties: .363/.434/.683/1.117 (262 AB).

 

Would he make a bigger impact than Kendall for what the Cubs need to beat a lefty? Also, are the lefties the Pirates throwing hard throwers or do they change speeds well?

 

Jason Kendall is doing better against righties than lefties this season - neither of his splits compare to Soto's #s in the minors. I think Soto is a better option against all pitchers, he has a good approach (not as good as Kendall's) and much, much more power.

 

Maholm is good with his command changing speeds. Duke has better stuff and throws harder. Neither has been that good this season, though (Duke especially). Don't know who the third lefty for Pittsburgh is.

 

Isn't Gorzellany going Sunday?

[CuseCubFan69]

My team had the same problem this year. The more lefties we saw the more comfortable we got. I hope the same thing happens to the Cubs.

[CuseCubFan69]

How'd Soto do with Lefties? That might help too.

 

Against lefties: .314/.390/.587/.977 (121 AB).

 

Of course, he was even better against righties: .363/.434/.683/1.117 (262 AB).

 

Would he make a bigger impact than Kendall for what the Cubs need to beat a lefty? Also, are the lefties the Pirates throwing hard throwers or do they change speeds well?

 

Jason Kendall is doing better against righties than lefties this season - neither of his splits compare to Soto's #s in the minors. I think Soto is a better option against all pitchers, he has a good approach (not as good as Kendall's) and much, much more power.

 

Maholm is good with his command changing speeds. Duke has better stuff and throws harder. Neither has been that good this season, though (Duke especially). Don't know who the third lefty for Pittsburgh is.

 

Thanks raisin. Well Soto gets the call today so there's another chance for him to prove himself and help the Cubs.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

the Cubs don't hit righties all that well either -- 16th in ML OPS

[Guest]

How'd Soto do with Lefties? That might help too.

 

Against lefties: .314/.390/.587/.977 (121 AB).

 

Of course, he was even better against righties: .363/.434/.683/1.117 (262 AB).

 

Would he make a bigger impact than Kendall for what the Cubs need to beat a lefty? Also, are the lefties the Pirates throwing hard throwers or do they change speeds well?

 

Jason Kendall is doing better against righties than lefties this season - neither of his splits compare to Soto's #s in the minors. I think Soto is a better option against all pitchers, he has a good approach (not as good as Kendall's) and much, much more power.

 

Maholm is good with his command changing speeds. Duke has better stuff and throws harder. Neither has been that good this season, though (Duke especially). Don't know who the third lefty for Pittsburgh is.

 

Isn't Gorzellany going Sunday?

 

Thanks, raw.

 

From what I rememebr of Gorzellany, he's a hard thrower w/ a good slider.

[jersey cubs fan]

no patience, it is that simple.

 

if that were the case, I would think it would show up in P/PA and IsoD.

 

P/PA

v. lefties - 3.73

v. righties - 3.73

 

IsoD

v. lefties 61

v. righties 62

 

they are not appreciably more patient against righties than they are against lefties.

And that's the problem.

 

Unless I'm reading that wrong, aren't they about the same?

 

Yes, that's the point. They are impatient against everybody. It kind of works a little against hard throwing righties. It does not work against soft tossing lefties.

 

And its' not true at all that the entire league is this way. If it were, all soft tossing lefties would have great numbers.

 

The NL has a 770 OPS against LHP, and it's just 750 against RHP. The Cubs rank 8th, at 751 against RHP, but rank 13th at 733 against LHP. This was also a problem last year, when they were middle of the road against RHP but dead last against the lefties.

 

I think the problem is a couple things. 1, they are impatient, so guys who make their living my staying out of the zone (soft tossers - often lefties) can thrive against the Cubs. The Cubs thought the strikeout was their biggest enemy a couple years ago, so they stressed putting the ball in play for a while, and that leads to a bunch of weak swings at bad pitches that result in easy outs. 2, the Cubs often try and fix the general offensive problem by going after lefties. They constantly try and find lefty power, as opposed to just guys who can hit. This has left them with some serious issues with guys who just can't hit lefties at all, like Jones and Pierre, and when they tried to fix it with a platoon, they relied on guys like Pagan and Monroe, who didn't hit lefties either. That also goes along with the tendency to load up with righties against LHP, which meant relying on many backups to start, which just weakens the lineup in general.

[Soul]

How'd Soto do with Lefties? That might help too.

 

Against lefties: .314/.390/.587/.977 (121 AB).

 

Of course, he was even better against righties: .363/.434/.683/1.117 (262 AB).

 

Would he make a bigger impact than Kendall for what the Cubs need to beat a lefty? Also, are the lefties the Pirates throwing hard throwers or do they change speeds well?

 

Jason Kendall is doing better against righties than lefties this season - neither of his splits compare to Soto's #s in the minors. I think Soto is a better option against all pitchers, he has a good approach (not as good as Kendall's) and much, much more power.

 

Maholm is good with his command changing speeds. Duke has better stuff and throws harder. Neither has been that good this season, though (Duke especially). Don't know who the third lefty for Pittsburgh is.

 

Isn't Gorzellany going Sunday?

 

Thanks, raw.

 

From what I rememebr of Gorzellany, he's a hard thrower w/ a good slider.

 

Gorzelanny will likely be very, very tough on us. I think he's given up 1 ER in each of his 2 appearances against us this year.