Cubs have more talent than Brewers...

[Ender]

Ok I realize this is going to be highly controversial and I really do not mean it at a troll in any way. I was going to just post it at the Brewer forum but I realized I would get even more biased opinions there.

 

Tonight I was watching the Cubs game on ESPN and they stated that without a doubt the Cubs have the most talent in the division and that it was a huge shock that the Cubs were not running away with the division.

 

At first I just laughed to myself because to me that statement is just ridiculous, the Brewers have the most talent in the division without question. The cubs have more experience, they have a better manager but more talent? The huge gaping flaw in the Brewer team is lack of experience and not getting the job done in close games, not talent.

 

If both rosters stayed 100% stagnant for say the next 3 years, do you really think the Cubs would be the better team? To me it seems a no brainer, the Brewers have so much talent its just sickening they just need to turn that talent into actual wins which is the real trick and one that may never come to fruition

 

Am i just wearing the Brewer blinders or was this case number 10,000 of the ESPN analysts being clueless?

[Mephistopheles]

the brewers dont have more talent than the cubs

[TruffleShuffle]

If both rosters stayed 100% stagnant for say the next 3 years, do you really think the Cubs would be the better team? To me it seems a no brainer, the Brewers have so much talent its just sickening they just need to turn that talent into actual wins which is the real trick and one that may never come to fruition

 

Well no, but this isn't really a fair assessment. If the Cubs don't improve their roster then no, they won't be as good as the Brewers, because the Brewers have a lot more young talent that is likely to continue to improve in coming years.

 

But you're right, the people on ESPN are wrong to say that the Cubs are far more talented. I think people look at the names on the Cubs - Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, Zambrano - and think that their roster is better. Just because the Brewers' young guys aren't big names doesn't mean they're not good players. Fielder is already better than Lee; Braun is pretty close to being as good as ARam (Braun has been lucky on balls in play though, and his fielding is bad); Corey Hart has been just as productive as Soriano. I like the Cubs' pitching a little better than the Brewers, as I think Hill is better than whoever the Brewers' #2 is, and Lilly is better than the Brewers' #3. Bullpens are pretty close in ability.

[inari]

The Cubs are unquestionably more talented right now.

[TruffleShuffle]

The Cubs are unquestionably more talented right now.

 

I'm a Cubs fan (not drinking Brewer Kool Aid) and I beg to differ.

[MPrior]

If both rosters stayed 100% stagnant for say the next 3 years, do you really think the Cubs would be the better team? To me it seems a no brainer, the Brewers have so much talent its just sickening they just need to turn that talent into actual wins which is the real trick and one that may never come to fruition

 

Well no, but this isn't really a fair assessment. If the Cubs don't improve their roster then no, they won't be as good as the Brewers, because the Brewers have a lot more young talent that is likely to continue to improve in coming years.

 

I think by "stagnant" he meant no change whatsoever - so no development for players either. Essentially, if we played 2007 over 3 times. Or at least, that's what would make his statement make sense.

 

The Brewers certainly seem to have more offensive talent than the Cubs. The Cubs seem to have better pitching and defense. I'm not sure who I'd give the edge to, but it's definitely close enough that it's basically just subjective.

[Guest]

Looking at this year's performances, I don't see how you could conclude anything except that the cubs defense is better than the brewers and the brewers offense is better than the cubs. overall, they are almost exactly equal. Given that, I would take the team with the better pitching. Going forward, I would swap places with the brewers 100 percent of the time.

[Handlebar McSkullet]

The Cubs are unquestionably more talented right now.

 

I'm a Cubs fan (not drinking Brewer Kool Aid) and I beg to differ.

 

Whatever talent drop there is in the position players, is more than made up by the Cubs in the pitching staff. The Cubs pitching staff is better now, more talented now, and in 3 years will be better and more talented.

[XZero771679666304]

Braun and Fielder are great talents. Hardy and Hart are good but not as good as their 2007 numbers. Hall is an average player who had one good year. Gallardo will be very good, not so sure about Parra.

 

All of the Brewers outfielders range from average to mediocre, with no top tier talent on the way soon. Their pen is terrible. the only talented pitchers in it are Turnbow and Cordero, but Marmol >>>>>>> Turnbow and Cordero = Dempster. Other than that the Cubs pen is much better.

 

Sheets is great but injury prone (you can't deny it anymore). Zambrano is great but insane and inconsistent.

 

Z = Sheets.

 

Gallardo will be very good, but the rest of the rotation sucks. Cubs have Hill, Lilly, Marshall and Guzman. No contest here.

 

Lets compare some of the talent:

 

Braun edges Ramirez offensively, but Aramis owns Braun defensively.

 

Fielder his for more power than Lee, but again, Lee owns Prince defensively, and on the basepaths. Lee is older though, and it will start to show. Prince won't improve on his weaknesses until he drops some pounds.

 

I am not the least bit convinced that Hardy is anything more than a .270/.325/.430 player with mediocre defense, but he is better than anything the Cubs have at SS.

 

Weeks is not going to be the star people thought he was a couple years ago. I don't see him being any better than DeRosa/Patterson.

 

2006 Hall was a mirage. The reality is a RH Jacque Jones.

 

The Brewers team defense is awful (particularly on the infield), with no change in sight.

 

The Cubs team defense is good (particularly on the infield), and looks to get better with Pie in CF. Kendall is a liability, but Soto isn't and he looks legit.

 

 

 

Overall, it looks like a push, maybe a slight edge to the Cubs because of the balance of talent. The Brewers talent is really concentrated, and mostly offensive. The pitching talent will suffer because of the horrid defense.

 

The Cubs talent is spread around more, but older. A lot depends on how Pie and Soto pan out.

[Jazz]

i like the brewers offense alot more than the cubs, as it seems way less streaky. But the pitching is really no contest cubs ++.

 

Overall, its about a push, so the deciding factor's would be the pen. Not sure where to go that way.

[soccer10k]

Cubs pitching > Brewers pitching

 

Brewers hitting >> Cubs hitting

 

The Brewers are more talented but not by a significant margin.

[seanimal]

Loaded question really.

 

The Cubs are at least a half game better than the Brewers. Easily.

[soccer10k]

Loaded question really.

 

The Cubs are at least a half game better than the Brewers. Easily.

 

They could be equal to the Brewers in about 11 hours.

[CubFanPhilly]

It's a difficult comparison because there's such a dramatic difference offense vs. defense.

 

I'd rather have the Cubs' talent down the stretch. I'd rather have the Brewers talent over the next three years.

 

The Brewer's flaws should be easier to fix. They're younger and have less money committed. They need four or five decent arms (mostly in the pen).

 

The flaws in the Cubs offense are found up and down the lineup. Upgrading one or two bats does little to solve the problem. And the fact that their strongest bats are near or past their prime doesn't bode well beyond next season. Moreover, the young hitters in the Cubs lineup probably don't have the upside potential to be as good as those who'll be declining over the next 3-4 seasons (w/ the possible exception of Pie).

 

CFP

[RynoRules]

The Brewers have some major issues in the pitching rotation bthat the Cubs do not have. Unfortunately for them, this yr's FA mkt is weak in terms of pitching, and they blew a bunch of cash on Suppan who has been a bust. They will need to trade a few of their prospects to get some help for that rotation. By my count they need at least two more reliable starters.

 

They can fix their bullpen internally, IMO.

 

Their lineup is potent and simply better than the Cubs'.

[Soul]

Brewers have the edge, IMO.

[CuseCubFan69]

As long as the Cubs finish in first, I'm happy.

 

The Brewers have a very good farm system, do they not? I'm sure they could move a player or two to bump up the starting staff and fill in the bullpen with free agents. They remind of the 2003 Cubs only in reverse when it comes to young talent, they have hitting while the Cubs had pitching. I'm curious to see if they make the same stupid mistakes the Cubs did after their surprise good year.

[Ender]

I guess I am lumping potential in with current talent and maybe that was my mistake, if they meant for this season alone then I think things are pretty even.

 

The Brewers will not pick up a starter for next year. Sheets, Suppan, Villaneuva, Gallardo, Bush with Parra to fill in for anyone who is hurt is what they will go with almost for sure.

 

Sheets = Zambrano

Gallardo = Hill

 

Bush >= Marquis

 

Lilly ?? Villaneuva is the biggest question mark for me. Well that and the terrible defense which isn't going to be fixed.

[jmajew]

Pitching is the key to this question and the Cubs clearly have the better pitching. Our 2-5 is better than the Brewers 2-5. Our Aces Zambrano and Sheets are equal, only because Sheets gets injured so much.

 

Honestly though the Cubs offensively I think have a pretty bright future. Theriot has already proved he can be a bat 285 with an obp around 340 OBP, which is excellent from SS. Then all we need to do is show trust in Soto, Pie, and Patterson.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

The Brewer lineup simply destroys that of the Cubs. I'm not sure the Cubs advantage on pitching makes up for the offensive inferiority(sp?)

[Soul]

Pitching is the key to this question and the Cubs clearly have the better pitching. Our 2-5 is better than the Brewers 2-5. Our Aces Zambrano and Sheets are equal, only because Sheets gets injured so much.

 

Honestly though the Cubs offensively I think have a pretty bright future. Theriot has already proved he can be a bat 285 with an obp around 340 OBP, which is excellent from SS. Then all we need to do is show trust in Soto, Pie, and Patterson.

 

Their offense more than makes up for the pitching difference, IMO. They've been losing games on the road because that's what young teams do. Once they figure out how to win on the road, they're a 95 win ballclub despite pitching issues, which will likely mitigate themselves as Sheets comes back and a few of their younger guys get more experience.

 

The difference in offense is so completely overwhelming it's ridiculous.

[TruffleShuffle]

The Brewers have some major issues in the pitching rotation bthat the Cubs do not have. Unfortunately for them, this yr's FA mkt is weak in terms of pitching, and they blew a bunch of cash on Suppan who has been a bust. They will need to trade a few of their prospects to get some help for that rotation. By my count they need at least two more reliable starters.

 

Bush is a pretty solid pitcher who's been fairly unlucky this year. Suppan hasn't been a bust so much as he's been really unlucky in BABIP and LOB%. Before this year I would have said that Capuano was a solid #3, but I have no idea what the hell happened to him this year - his BABIP is really high too. Vargas sucks, and should be replaced by Gallardo beyond this year.

 

(this many pitchers with "bad luck" on batted balls suggests that defensive ineptitude is probably the biggest culprit)

[CubColtPacer]

Pitching is the key to this question and the Cubs clearly have the better pitching. Our 2-5 is better than the Brewers 2-5. Our Aces Zambrano and Sheets are equal, only because Sheets gets injured so much.

 

Honestly though the Cubs offensively I think have a pretty bright future. Theriot has already proved he can be a bat 285 with an obp around 340 OBP, which is excellent from SS. Then all we need to do is show trust in Soto, Pie, and Patterson.

 

Their offense more than makes up for the pitching difference, IMO. They've been losing games on the road because that's what young teams do. Once they figure out how to win on the road, they're a 95 win ballclub despite pitching issues, which will likely mitigate themselves as Sheets comes back and a few of their younger guys get more experience.

 

The difference in offense is so completely overwhelming it's ridiculous.

 

That difference in offense has translated into 48 runs over the course of the season. The Brewers are 5th in the NL in runs while the Cubs are 8th. The Brewers are an easily better offensive team, but they are no juggernaut on offense. They've had their stretches where they have struggled offensively as well (for example, in August the Cubs as well documented were 15th in the NL in runs/game. The Brewers were 14th. In July, the Cubs were 8th in runs/game while the Brewers were 12th.)

 

So basically, while the Cubs have been being called out for their lack of offense the last couple months especially (which is completely justified), the Brewers have scored a total of 13 more runs since July 1st. They've hit a lot more home runs, but they haven't scored a lot more than the Cubs.

 

As far as pure talent, the Cubs have better talent on offense then they've shown, and the Brewers have better talent in their pitching staff then they've shown. I think the Cubs have a slight edge thanks to their bullpen and defense, but the difference is not very large.

[jersey cubs fan]

Talent levels are subjective.

 

I would say that the Brewers have far more potential talent, but it's yet to be proven that this talent will translate to production and wins. I think the Cubs have the slight edge in talent right now, the problem is their better players aren't playing their best. But that happens when you are older and past your prime. The further out we go the more the talent spectrum shines on the Brewers side of the ledger.

 

The Cubs do have very talented ballplayers. Jacque Jones is talented, he's just not that productive. Soriano is probably the most talented guy between the two teams, he's just not the most productive. Zambrano is easily the most talented pitcher, but we've seen his issues.

[erik316wttn]

the brewers dont have more talent than the cubs

 

The Brewers have better hitting and a better farm system. The Cubs have the better pitching staff.