How good is Kenny Williams as a GM

[JonnyRed]

I've always felt that KW gets more credit than he deserves because he's an aggressive, ego-driven guy when most GMs are content to sit in the background.

 

Then came 2005...He gambled on previously solid players who were undervalued because of injury (Dye), performance (Contreras, El-Duque, Pods) or hated (AJ) and signed them to economical deals. We all know how that turned out, and he deserves his just due.

 

However, how's he done since then? How would this team look with Lee in LF, Rowland in CF and Maggs in RF? Or if he still made the Thome trade, you'd have Chris Young and his 26 HRs in CF. That's a lot of talent that KW has let leave the southside.

[UMFan83]

I know, plus he hasnt even traded for Roberto Alomar in like 3 years!

[rawaction]

Getting rid of the overrated Lee, who was due for a big payday, was a good move. Getting rid of Maggs who had a major knee injury during his contract season wasn't a bad move. Can't really fault a lot of his moves because if the goal was to win a championship, he did that. If the goal was to sustain a winning franchise, then he's headed down the wrong path with an aging underachieving team.

[UMFan83]

Getting rid of the overrated Lee, who was due for a big payday, was a good move. Getting rid of Maggs who had a major knee injury during his contract season wasn't a bad move. Can't really fault a lot of his moves because if the goal was to win a championship, he did that. If the goal was to sustain a winning franchise, then he's headed down the wrong path with an aging underachieving team.

 

I don't even mind a lot of his moves since the championship. I never agreed with the Vazquez trade, I didn't think it was necessary. But I thought he built a nice bench with Cintron and Mackowiack among others. He got rid of Polite and Cotts when they regressed, and while his decision to pickup every live arm he could for his bullpen failed miserably, it was somewhat of a rational strategy, although he certainly should have gotten at least 1-2 proven arms he could count on.

 

Bottom line is, the Sox probably aren't going to compete for a title anytime soon. Their core is aging. Thome, Dye, Konerko, Contreras, etc are old. Kenny would have to make some pretty swift moves to get this team contending next year. But they do have some younger talent contributing or about to contribute. I think Fields will be solid, and they have some decent prospects in the farm system.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

is Harold Baines still retired?

[Balsa]

I agree with most of the moves he made, I think his biggest mistake isn't losing in trades, but letting his core get too old.

 

Also, I think the Dye extension is a waste of money.

 

But he rocked the Freddy Garcia trade. And man, did he get crap for that one.

[KenCub]

I think he's like most GMs - he makes some deals that work out well and some that don't. I think the shocking nature of a few deals that worked out really well short-term(Podsednik, Hermanson and Jenks come to mind) make him stand out a little bit.

I don't really know if he gets more credit than other GMs, though. He wasn't even named Executive of the Year when they won the World Series. The GM of the 2nd place team in their own division got that award.

[Derwood]

it took some balls to breakup the Thomas/Maggs/Lee core, but it worked

[apete6]

Williams is essentially lucky. The Sox caught lightning in a bottle in 2005 and "rode the lightning" to the championship. (Lame Metallica reference). I mean, they really had 4 complete games in a row in the ALCS? From very average pitchers.

 

However, you can't really argue with what he did in 2005 offseason either...at the time. Now, however, who would you rather have, Chris effin Young and Rowand or Vasquez and Thome?

 

Also, the Freddy Garcia trade is looking good now because he's injured, but what happens if he comes back and is decent for the next 2 years and Gavin Floyd predictably sucks and Gio Gonzalez doesn't pan out?

 

In addition, the Dye extension is kind of risky, and not trading Crede last offseason was predictably disastrous. Do you realize they might have been able to land AROD for Crede and Garland and prospects last offseason? Yikes.

 

Their lineup for next season should be pretty brutal unless they make a huge AROD signing or something like that. If they re-sign Rowand, their OF could be decent (Fields, Rowand, Dye), but their infield will be in shambles outside of Konerko. Paying all 4 starters over $10 million doesn't leave them much room for change, either. Their bullpen should continue to suck because Kenny won't pony up for middle relievers.

 

Overall, I would give Williams an A, for the simple fact that he ended a 90 year drought. However, for any organization outside of Chicago or Boston, he would get a C.

[Balsa]

Also, the Freddy Garcia trade is looking good now because he's injured, but what happens if he comes back and is decent for the next 2 years and Gavin Floyd predictably sucks and Gio Gonzalez doesn't pan out?

Garcia is a free agent in 2008, and KW got some great prospects in return. He wasn't going to sign a deal anyway, Williams sold high and got a great deal.

[TruffleShuffle]

Also, the Freddy Garcia trade is looking good now because he's injured, but what happens if he comes back and is decent for the next 2 years and Gavin Floyd predictably sucks and Gio Gonzalez doesn't pan out?

Garcia is a free agent in 2008, and KW got some great prospects in return. He wasn't going to sign a deal anyway, Williams sold high and got a great deal.

 

you're being very generous in calling gavin floyd and gio gonzalez "great prospects"

[Guest]

Also, the Freddy Garcia trade is looking good now because he's injured, but what happens if he comes back and is decent for the next 2 years and Gavin Floyd predictably sucks and Gio Gonzalez doesn't pan out?

Garcia is a free agent in 2008, and KW got some great prospects in return. He wasn't going to sign a deal anyway, Williams sold high and got a great deal.

 

you're being very generous in calling gavin floyd and gio gonzalez "great prospects"

Gio is pretty good. Floyd was considered pretty good at one point before he lost it.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

Trading Chris Young for Vazquez is looking pretty terrible right now.

[SouthSideRyan]

Trading Chris Young for Vazquez is looking pretty terrible right now.

 

Young's exciting, but that OBP is ugly.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

Trading Chris Young for Vazquez is looking pretty terrible right now.

 

Young's exciting, but that OBP is ugly.

 

I think that will come around. From 04-06 he posted an OBP over 360 each of those years in the minors.

[JonnyRed]

Also, the Freddy Garcia trade is looking good now because he's injured, but what happens if he comes back and is decent for the next 2 years and Gavin Floyd predictably sucks and Gio Gonzalez doesn't pan out?

Garcia is a free agent in 2008, and KW got some great prospects in return. He wasn't going to sign a deal anyway, Williams sold high and got a great deal.

 

Floyd sucks and Gio Gonzalez needs to play in the majors before I go calling him great.

[bukie]

I think Williams had a well-built team in 2005, but he didn't realize why it was well-built. He thought players like Podsednik and Rowand sparked the team with their SBs and they ground out games like the grinding grinders that they were.

 

When, really, it was the insane amount of HRs and outstanding pitching that propelled them through the season and playoffs, despite having a .322 OBP.

[Backtobanks]

I think Kenny Williams got very lucky in 2005. He wasn't considered a great GM before that and now is regressing back to his "below average" status. I think he really blew a chance for the WS to go young next year and compete in 2009-2010 by not making deals last off season and at the deadline this year. It was obvious at the deadline that this team was not going to rebound and would not be in contention for 2008. Williams then traded Iguchi for nothing and resigned an aging Dye. As another poster mentioned, he could have traded Crede last year. I would have asked for more in return for Iguchi, traded Konerko to LA, traded Dye for a decent prospect or two, and traded Contreras to anyone who would take him for next-to-nothing in return. This off season, I would trade Garland, Uribe (if anybody wants him), and anyone in the bullpen not named Jenks. With the trades of Crede, Iguchi, Konerko, Dye, and Garland, you can't tell me that they wouldn't have enough major league ready players to have a decent team in 2009. As it is, the best they can hope for is 4th place next year behind the younger and more talented Tigers, Indians, and Twins and there isn't much on the horizon for 2009 and beyond.

[KenCub]

Trading Chris Young for Vazquez is looking pretty terrible right now.

That trade looks a lot worse because Brian Anderson is useless with a bat in his hands and Ryan Sweeney is inconsistent at best.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

Trading Chris Young for Vazquez is looking pretty terrible right now.

That trade looks a lot worse because Brian Anderson is useless with a bat in his hands and Ryan Sweeney is inconsistent at best.

 

meh, I don't think those 2 have to factor in at all. Bottom line is that giving up a talent like Young for Vasquez who is nothing spectactular, was terrible.

 

Right now the only think holding Young from being an elite player is his plate discipline, but if I'm not mistaken his ISoD in the minors was always around .900-1.000. If he can translate this at the big leagues, watch out.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Vazquez is one of the more underrated pitchers in the game.

 

That said, Williams isn't very good. It's great that he won the World Series, but that team's success wasn't the result of his development of the organization, as their collapse into awfulness so soon afterward shows. In fact, you could say remarkably similar things about Hendry if the Cubs were to win big this year.

[Backtobanks]

Vazquez is one of the more underrated pitchers in the game.

 

That said, Williams isn't very good. It's great that he won the World Series, but that team's success wasn't the result of his development of the organization, as their collapse into awfulness so soon afterward shows. In fact, you could say remarkably similar things about Hendry if the Cubs were to win big this year.

 

I don't think the Cubs would "collapse into awfulness" as quickly as the White Sox. The core of the Cubs are still in their "prime" years and the pitching staff has lots of young arms waiting to replace someone who falters. Obviously, the Cubs could regress after winning big, but not to the extent of the White Sox.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Vazquez is one of the more underrated pitchers in the game.

 

That said, Williams isn't very good. It's great that he won the World Series, but that team's success wasn't the result of his development of the organization, as their collapse into awfulness so soon afterward shows. In fact, you could say remarkably similar things about Hendry if the Cubs were to win big this year.

 

I don't think the Cubs would "collapse into awfulness" as quickly as the White Sox. The core of the Cubs are still in their "prime" years and the pitching staff has lots of young arms waiting to replace someone who falters. Obviously, the Cubs could regress after winning big, but not to the extent of the White Sox.

 

Ack, I figured someone would think that. The Hendry-Williams comparison I was making only went as far as "not very well built team got lucky and won the world series, GM still not very good". Sorry for the confusion.

[CubinNY]

Vazquez is one of the more underrated pitchers in the game.

 

That said, Williams isn't very good. It's great that he won the World Series, but that team's success wasn't the result of his development of the organization, as their collapse into awfulness so soon afterward shows. In fact, you could say remarkably similar things about Hendry if the Cubs were to win big this year.

 

I don't think the Cubs would "collapse into awfulness" as quickly as the White Sox. The core of the Cubs are still in their "prime" years and the pitching staff has lots of young arms waiting to replace someone who falters. Obviously, the Cubs could regress after winning big, but not to the extent of the White Sox.

I think they might whether they win the WS this year or not.

 

I don't know why people think Soriano, Lee, and Aramis will be in their prime in 1, 2, or 3 years down the road.

 

The difference is that the Cubs seem to play with a lot more payroll flexibility than do the White Sox. Money can solve a lot of problems.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Vazquez is one of the more underrated pitchers in the game.

 

That said, Williams isn't very good. It's great that he won the World Series, but that team's success wasn't the result of his development of the organization, as their collapse into awfulness so soon afterward shows. In fact, you could say remarkably similar things about Hendry if the Cubs were to win big this year.

 

he may have been underrated a few years ago, but he's most certainly not now