Morgan better than Ryno again?

[Chocolate Milk]

Ryno was the greatest second baseman of his generation and a hall of famer. Morgan, however, was the greatest second baseman of all time.

 

Rogers Hornsby.

 

+1

+1

 

I wasn't alive yet, but from what I've read, Rajah was an amazing ballplayer.

 

Ya, you're a badass if you put a season like this: .403/.489/.756, 210 OPS+, 39 HR, 143 RBI

 

Eh, talk to me about times when they weren't playing with rocks and tree branches.

[wolf stansson]

Morgan = 5 GG

Sandberg = 9 GG

 

two words: Rafael Palmeiro

That argument only works against non-cubs.

 

Awfully sensitive lately.

Not really, have just had more time to read/respond to certain things here which are wrong.

[NewUserName]

this whole thread is clouded by a heaping does of Cubs homerism mixed in with anti-announcer-Morgan sentiment.

 

 

True. I am guessing there isnt even a debate with other fans who is a better 2nd baseman between Sandberg and Morgan.

[SouthSideRyan]

Morgan = 5 GG

Sandberg = 9 GG

 

two words: Rafael Palmeiro

That argument only works against non-cubs.

 

Awfully sensitive lately.

Not really, have just had more time to read/respond to certain things here which are wrong.

 

Typical Cards fan response

[OleMissCub]

Ryno was the greatest second baseman of his generation and a hall of famer. Morgan, however, was the greatest second baseman of all time.

 

Rogers Hornsby.

 

+1

+1

 

I wasn't alive yet, but from what I've read, Rajah was an amazing ballplayer.

 

Ya, you're a badass if you put a season like this: .403/.489/.756, 210 OPS+, 39 HR, 143 RBI

 

Eh, talk to me about times when they weren't playing with rocks and tree branches.

 

Ya, Babe Ruth, Gehrig, and those types sucked.

[wolf stansson]

Morgan = 5 GG

Sandberg = 9 GG

 

two words: Rafael Palmeiro

That argument only works against non-cubs.

 

Awfully sensitive lately.

Not really, have just had more time to read/respond to certain things here which are wrong.

 

Typical Cards fan response

Sure.

[SouthSideRyan]

Morgan = 5 GG

Sandberg = 9 GG

 

two words: Rafael Palmeiro

That argument only works against non-cubs.

 

Awfully sensitive lately.

Not really, have just had more time to read/respond to certain things here which are wrong.

 

Typical Cards fan response

Sure.

 

Well that was in jest.

[wolf stansson]

Morgan = 5 GG

Sandberg = 9 GG

 

two words: Rafael Palmeiro

That argument only works against non-cubs.

 

Awfully sensitive lately.

Not really, have just had more time to read/respond to certain things here which are wrong.

 

Typical Cards fan response

Sure.

 

Well that was in jest.

But was my sure?

[Rob]

Ok... let's at least get this straight.

 

Joe Morgan was a better hitter than Sandberg (.392 career OBP vs .344) I love Ryno as much as anybody, but it's time we admit Morgan was better on offense.

 

Defensively, however, it's not even a battle. Ryno ranks up there as one of the top defenders of all time at that position. Depending on which metric you use, Morgan rates as average to below average. I have a hard time believing any of those gold gloves were justified more than Raffy's was.

[B]

I hate Ryne Sandberg.

 

The minor leagues are supposed to be about the young kids. Helping the kids become major leaguers. He's only out for himself, just like he always was. All he ever cared about was winning - winning - winning.

 

A real LOSER off-the-field too. No wonder he's headed for a second DIVORCE. LOUSY family man.

 

The Hall of Fame does not make you a good person. He let it go to his head. I hope to GOD he never ever manages the CUBS. I'll become a Whie Sox fan.

 

IT'S NICE TO BE IMPORTANT BUT IT'S MORE IMPORTANT TO BE NICE!!!!

[imb]

son of a...I was just looking for that quote

[Abe Frohman]

Did Sandberg's new wife screw the MLB Players Union too?

[SouthSideRyan]

Morgan = 5 GG

Sandberg = 9 GG

 

two words: Rafael Palmeiro

That argument only works against non-cubs.

 

Awfully sensitive lately.

Not really, have just had more time to read/respond to certain things here which are wrong.

 

Typical Cards fan response

Sure.

 

Well that was in jest.

But was my sure?

 

I hope not.

[nolanwood]

http://www.firejoemorgan.com/

 

'nuff said. I like to keep a pen and paper handy when Morgan is announcing a game so I can tally up all the blatant stupidities that spew from his fat mouth. Sometimes I can't write fast enough.

 

Even stuff as simple as this, which occurred on Sunday night:

 

"Yeah...uh.....Jones was out by at least five steps." And as these magical words of dumbdon leave his mouth, a replay shows Jacque barely making 2 steps after the ball was caught before reaching the bag.

 

Another of my favorites is how he swears the "K-zone" is more accurate than the umpire behind the plate.

[bhogg]

I hate Ryne Sandberg.

 

The minor leagues are supposed to be about the young kids. Helping the kids become major leaguers. He's only out for himself, just like he always was. All he ever cared about was winning - winning - winning.

 

A real LOSER off-the-field too. No wonder he's headed for a second DIVORCE. LOUSY family man.

 

The Hall of Fame does not make you a good person. He let it go to his head. I hope to GOD he never ever manages the CUBS. I'll become a Whie Sox fan.

 

IT'S NICE TO BE IMPORTANT BUT IT'S MORE IMPORTANT TO BE NICE!!!!

 

what?

[Soul]

I hate Ryne Sandberg.

 

The minor leagues are supposed to be about the young kids. Helping the kids become major leaguers. He's only out for himself, just like he always was. All he ever cared about was winning - winning - winning.

 

A real LOSER off-the-field too. No wonder he's headed for a second DIVORCE. LOUSY family man.

 

The Hall of Fame does not make you a good person. He let it go to his head. I hope to GOD he never ever manages the CUBS. I'll become a Whie Sox fan.

 

IT'S NICE TO BE IMPORTANT BUT IT'S MORE IMPORTANT TO BE NICE!!!!

 

what?

 

I'm hoping it was overdone sarcasm. Otherwise...

[gerby23]

this whole thread is clouded by a heaping does of Cubs homerism mixed in with anti-announcer-Morgan sentiment.

 

 

True. I am guessing there isnt even a debate with other fans who is a better 2nd baseman between Sandberg and Morgan.

 

I can't speak to multitudes of other fans, but 2 of my Astros friends from South Texas sent me this article link with a huge "WHAT?!?!" attached. So...at least some other fans agree.

 

And Rob, you are correct.

[bhogg]

Morgan was an OBP guy. Sandberg was more of a slugger --- not a bad OBP, but not nearly as good as Morgan. Does that make Morgan head and shoulders better? Hardly.

 

Both were excellent base runners.

 

Sandberg was probably the better fielder.

 

They seem pretty similar to me. The difference is that it appears that Sandberg doesn't give a damn about who's better. Morgan, on the other hand, gets his panties in a wad every time the name "sandberg" is mentioned.

 

Is it any surprise that Morgan was not in attendance for the 05 HoF induction? This is a guy who prides himself on all things Hall related, yet he fails to make this particular one? It's not like these things aren't scheduled years in advance.

[bhogg]

Did I mention that Sandberg's sanchez style '87 mustache is infinitely better than anything Joe ever sported?

 

:)

[Rob]

Morgan was an OBP guy. Sandberg was more of a slugger --- not a bad OBP, but not nearly as good as Morgan. Does that make Morgan head and shoulders better? Hardly.

 

Joe Morgan: .392 OBP (.326 lgOBP) / .427 SLG (.384 lgSLG)

Ryne Sandberg: .344 OBP (.337 lgOBP) / .452 SLG (.404 lgSLG)

 

Just to make the math easier to eyeball... let's normalize those numbers by dividing the individual stats by the league stats and then multiply by 100, to get a real grasp of how far above and beyond they went... we'll call these OBP+ and SLG+ (even though we aren't bothering with park factors or anything, it should be close enough to an OPS+ format to make my point)

 

Joe Morgan: 120 OBP+ , 112 SLG+

Ryne Sandberg: 102 OBP+ , 112 SLG+

 

Sandberg really didn't slug any better than Morgan did... but Morgan sure did get on base better.

[IowaCubsFan]

Considering it took Morgan what, 18 or 19 seasons to accumulate 5 GG's, and Sandberg won almost twice as many in five fewer seasons, I'd say only a fool would try to argue that Morgan was a better fielder.

 

The only reason Morgan gets the run he does is:

 

1.) He played on several excellent teams, and had a lot of postseason experience with which to gain notoriety.

2.) He's on television every damn Sunday night.

3.) Never stops telling others how great he was.

 

Morgan has a massive inferiority complex. I can't stand the SOB, and it's undoubtedly people like him who keep guys like Ron Santo out of the HOF.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

For all-time GG, Morgan is a joke. I rate it a tossup between Sandberg, Alomar, and Nellie Fox. For all-around 2B though? Morgan was definitely better than Ryno, and I love #23. I watched Morgan on a regular basis during his playing days, once he matured and developed power, he was an incredibly dangerous player. With his plate discipline and incredible base running ability, he could (and did) change the course of a game single-handedly. Ryno was never like that.

 

My list:

 

1. Rogers Hornsby

2. Jackie Robinson

3. Joe Morgan

4. Eddie Collins

5. Charlie Gehringer

6. Rod Carew

7. Ryne Sandberg

8. Nap Lajoie

9. Frankie Frisch

10. Robbie Alomar

[Derwood]

why are we arguing over a fan vote of an all time idiotic award?

[AI]

This discussion has gotten off track. You can argue who is the best OVERALL second baseman all day long. But its not even a question to me that Ryno, Robby Alomar and Bill Mazeroski were better defensive second basemen.

[NCCubFan]

I hate Ryne Sandberg.

 

The minor leagues are supposed to be about the young kids. Helping the kids become major leaguers. He's only out for himself, just like he always was. All he ever cared about was winning - winning - winning.

 

A real LOSER off-the-field too. No wonder he's headed for a second DIVORCE. LOUSY family man.

 

The Hall of Fame does not make you a good person. He let it go to his head. I hope to GOD he never ever manages the CUBS. I'll become a Whie Sox fan.

 

IT'S NICE TO BE IMPORTANT BUT IT'S MORE IMPORTANT TO BE NICE!!!!

 

what?

 

I'm hoping it was overdone sarcasm. Otherwise...

He's actually quoting a post from another poster (cubbette14) from several months ago.