Levine: Cubs are happy with what they got

[inari]

I just think this year is different from years past. Pretty much the only position that could use an upgrade is RF.

 

 

I just don't see many holes.

 

You are nuts.

 

The Cubs are getting bottom of the NL barrel production from SS, CF, C and RF, and you think there are no holes?

 

You should check Theriot's July stats and find me an NL shortstop who put up better numbers.

 

Theriot's season OPS is still just .706. That's low. Theriot's advantage is his energy and timeliness (which may read as luck), because he seems to be at the core of nearly all Cubs rallies. But that is an immeasurable anecdote at best.

 

I think using OPS to grade Theriot is a bad idea. Everyone knows he sin't going to have any power numbers, so his OPS is going to be low. His OBP is very good though. He palys good defense and has had tremendous success stealing bases. That is his role on this team and I think he does it well.

 

I'm a big Theriot guy, let me say that first. I think he's an adequate shortstop offensively and I love his energy. However, a sub .350 OBP is not very good, especially if you're hitting for no power.

[USSoccer]

Wow, this hot steak really has people closing their eyes to flaws on this team.

 

Yep. And what's with the talk about "being good enough to make it to the playoffs"? Shouldn't we be trying to win the World Series? We are not good enough. This team has huge holes at SS, C, CF, and RF. We need to upgrade at least one of them.

 

Guess what? The majority of teams the Cubs play the rest of the way have more holes and are susceptible to dominant pitching, which is the Cubs primary strength. The Cubs play a lot of bad teams the rest of the way.

 

Yes the Cubs should make a move to improve one of the holes. No question. But the team is good enough to make the playoffs as is, because they play bad teams a lot. Though I question its ability to make it past the divisional series as constructed. They would need dominate with pitching to stand a chance.

 

Why should we settle for just getting there?

[NCCubFan]

Try Fontenot at SS again, use as a backup if that doesn't work out.

Why? Fontenot isn't hitting right now; Theriot is. That would be a downgrade both offensively and defensively. If they want to try another shortstop there's this guy named Cedeno who, in his limited playing time since being recalled, has looked much better than before being sent down.

[Bruno7481]

Wow, this hot steak really has people closing their eyes to flaws on this team.

 

Who's out there to get that we won't get fleeced over?

 

Griffey? Dunn? Renteria? Probably forgetting a few others.

 

Julio Lugo, Ramon Hernandez, Torii Hunter...

 

Yeah, the Cubs could probably get Hunter for nothing.

 

Lugo? Seriously? That contract?

[Banedon]

Wow, this hot steak really has people closing their eyes to flaws on this team.

 

Who's out there to get that we won't get fleeced over?

 

Griffey? Dunn? Renteria? Probably forgetting a few others.

 

Julio Lugo, Ramon Hernandez, Torii Hunter...

 

Yeah, the Cubs could probably get Hunter for nothing.

 

Lugo? Seriously? That contract?

 

And Lugo is starting to hit now. Boston won't be dealing him.

[soapy]

Wow, this hot steak really has people closing their eyes to flaws on this team.

 

Who's out there to get that we won't get fleeced over?

 

Griffey? Dunn? Renteria? Probably forgetting a few others.

 

You think Atlanta won't fleece the Cubs considering they're in the playoff race with us?

 

Do you think Cincinnati isn't going to ask for the moon for both Dunn and Griffey? Are you sure you want to give Hill possibly for one of those guys because that might be one of the pitchers that goes.

 

of course it's possible the Cubs would get fleeced acquiring one of those guys, but how do you know? are you saying it shouldn't even be considered and we should just assume there's no chance to get someone who will upgrade this offense? that seems insane to me. the braves need pitching. the reds need everything. is see no reason not to inquire about guys like this.

 

and to answer your question specifically, no, i wouldn't give up R. Hill for those guys. but i'm not sure that's what it would take.

[jersey cubs fan]

I think using OPS to grade Theriot is a bad idea. Everyone knows he sin't going to have any power numbers, so his OPS is going to be low. His OBP is very good though. He palys good defense and has had tremendous success stealing bases. That is his role on this team and I think he does it well.

 

Of course a guy is going to look better when you only judge him by the good parts of his game. But overall productivity matters, and the Cubs are still far too below the elites in the NL for my taste, and it's because of far too many positions with compromised production.

 

I have no problem with Theriot playing SS. I do have a problem with a lineup that features 4 pretty big holes at SS, CF, C and RF. You can probably make the playoffs with any one of those black holes remaining so, but there's no reason to chance trying to make it with all 4.

 

I'm not sure why we're just assuming any trade the Cubs try would be a fleecing.

[A New Era]

Are you kidding me? Check Neifi's April 2005 stats. You can't seriously think his July stats negate the need for improvement at SS. I will just assume you are kidding and not really thinking something like that.

 

HELLO!!! CEDENO!! He's been hot and hasn't even been given a chance yet. Why? Because Theriot is hot. In other words. With both Theroit and Cedeno I think we are covered at SS.

 

In your eyes: C, CF, SS, RF are holes.

 

C: I agree. But with Kendall looking better, Soto in AAA I think we are ok.

 

SS: Between Theroit and Cedeno we are likely able to ride who's hot. Both are good defensively.

 

CF: Are you looking at Jones #'s so far or Jones recent #'s? Historically being a better second half player. And with his defense and confidence looking better. I'd hardly call CF a hole either. Not terrific, but better than it was earlier this year.

 

RF: Here I can agree. Floyd looks good at the plate, but when you look at his actual #'s. Not very good. Even a floyd/Murton platoon could be ugly.

 

 

I think in other words we will beable to get atleast average #'s from SS and CF the rest of the way. C you can afford some shortcomings in O if the D is great. RF is the place I'd most want to upgrade. I don't think all 4 positions are as weak as you think they are.

[CubColtPacer]

Wow, this hot steak really has people closing their eyes to flaws on this team.

 

Who's out there to get that we won't get fleeced over?

 

Griffey? Dunn? Renteria? Probably forgetting a few others.

 

You think Atlanta won't fleece the Cubs considering they're in the playoff race with us?

 

Do you think Cincinnati isn't going to ask for the moon for both Dunn and Griffey? Are you sure you want to give Hill possibly for one of those guys because that might be one of the pitchers that goes.

 

of course it's possible the Cubs would get fleeced acquiring one of those guys, but how do you know? are you saying it shouldn't even be considered and we should just assume there's no chance to get someone who will upgrade this offense? that seems insane to me. the braves need pitching. the reds need everything. is see no reason not to inquire about guys like this.

 

and to answer your question specifically, no, i wouldn't give up R. Hill for those guys. but i'm not sure that's what it would take.

 

Agreed that they should look into all those guys, but don't you think they are doing that? I'm sure the organization is still looking for a deal if they can find one that's good-they simply aren't desperate right now and refuse to overpay.

 

Bruce told us a few days ago that Griffey was basically unavailable and that Dunn was commanding a very high price according to his sources.

[jersey cubs fan]

Seriously, the Cubs are perfect, no room for improvement, they averaged 6 runs per game in Cincy so no reason to try and get better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And I was afraid I was getting a little carried away with my hopes for this team.

 

Keep throwing out the hyperbole if that makes you feel better. That is not what I said. I just don't think are reasonable pgrades available without giving up way too much.

 

 

No, this is what you wrote.

 

I just think this year is different from years past. Pretty much the only position that could use an upgrade is RF. Some believe that Murton and Floyd could handle that together. Then you have DeRosa who is playing some there as well. C is another questionable position, but they just acquired Kendall and I don't see them making another move in that area. There aren't a whole lot of options at C to obtain anyway.

 

The rotation has been good. Marquis and Hill have been shaky at times, Marquis more than Hill. Marshall has been surprisingly consistent. Lilly and Zambrano have been great.

 

The bullpen has finally stabilized. Wood is on the verge of coming back (did I just type that?).

 

I just don't see many holes.

 

I think that's a ludicrous notion.

 

Call me crazy, but this team has holes. If they didn't, they'd be running away with the division right now and not just some middle of the road NL offense.

[TheDude]

I think using OPS to grade Theriot is a bad idea. Everyone knows he sin't going to have any power numbers, so his OPS is going to be low. His OBP is very good though. He palys good defense and has had tremendous success stealing bases. That is his role on this team and I think he does it well.

 

OPS isn't just HRs, as D. Lee proved in the first half. Theriot could increase his OPS by increasing his doubles and triples production, which is low. Currently he has 68 singles and 20 extra-base hits, nearly a 3.5/1 ratio.

 

In order for Theriot to stick everyday as an MLB SS with minimal HR power (and get 500 ABs rather than as super-sub with 350 ABs) he needs to put up 35+ doubles and leg out a few more triples.

[italianocubsfan7]

Ryan Church!!!

[Bruno7481]

I think using OPS to grade Theriot is a bad idea. Everyone knows he sin't going to have any power numbers, so his OPS is going to be low. His OBP is very good though. He palys good defense and has had tremendous success stealing bases. That is his role on this team and I think he does it well.

 

Of course a guy is going to look better when you only judge him by the good parts of his game. But overall productivity matters, and the Cubs are still far too below the elites in the NL for my taste, and it's because of far too many positions with compromised production.

 

I have no problem with Theriot playing SS. I do have a problem with a lineup that features 4 pretty big holes at SS, CF, C and RF. You can probably make the playoffs with any one of those black holes remaining so, but there's no reason to chance trying to make it with all 4.

 

I'm not sure why we're just assuming any trade the Cubs try would be a fleecing.

 

My only point is using "power" stats to evaluate Theriot is never going to have a positive outcome. It clearly is not his game.

 

At the same time though, he is doing an adequate job and is very cheap. The production he gives makes him valuable.

[TheDude]

Wow, this hot steak really has people closing their eyes to flaws on this team.

 

Yep. And what's with the talk about "being good enough to make it to the playoffs"? Shouldn't we be trying to win the World Series? We are not good enough. This team has huge holes at SS, C, CF, and RF. We need to upgrade at least one of them.

 

Guess what? The majority of teams the Cubs play the rest of the way have more holes and are susceptible to dominant pitching, which is the Cubs primary strength. The Cubs play a lot of bad teams the rest of the way.

 

Yes the Cubs should make a move to improve one of the holes. No question. But the team is good enough to make the playoffs as is, because they play bad teams a lot. Though I question its ability to make it past the divisional series as constructed. They would need dominate with pitching to stand a chance.

 

Why should we settle for just getting there?

 

We shouldn't, as I already stated. Just look at the text you quoted.

[USSoccer]

My only point is using "power" stats to evaluate Theriot is never going to have a positive outcome. It clearly is not his game.

 

At the same time though, he is doing an adequate job and is very cheap. The production he gives makes him valuable.

 

And power isn't just HR's. It's XBH's. Theriot needs to hit more XBH's of any kind.

 

You CAN live with Theriot at SS if you upgrade the OF, or C.

[soapy]

 

of course it's possible the Cubs would get fleeced acquiring one of those guys, but how do you know? are you saying it shouldn't even be considered and we should just assume there's no chance to get someone who will upgrade this offense? that seems insane to me. the braves need pitching. the reds need everything. is see no reason not to inquire about guys like this.

 

and to answer your question specifically, no, i wouldn't give up R. Hill for those guys. but i'm not sure that's what it would take.

 

Agreed that they should look into all those guys, but don't you think they are doing that? I'm sure the organization is still looking for a deal if they can find one that's good-they simply aren't desperate right now and refuse to overpay.

 

Bruce told us a few days ago that Griffey was basically unavailable and that Dunn was commanding a very high price according to his sources.

 

no i certainly do think hendry is looking into several options, possibly including the above mentioned names. i was responding to the people saying that there wasn't anyone out there that can improve this team unless the cubs are willing to get fleeced. i don't really believe that.

 

i hadn't seen Bruce's comment about Griffey and/or Dunn. that's interesting. however, i wouldn't say they are the only two options. just the first two that popped into my head responding to Rusch33's question.

[Bruno7481]

Seriously, the Cubs are perfect, no room for improvement, they averaged 6 runs per game in Cincy so no reason to try and get better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And I was afraid I was getting a little carried away with my hopes for this team.

 

Keep throwing out the hyperbole if that makes you feel better. That is not what I said. I just don't think are reasonable pgrades available without giving up way too much.

 

 

No, this is what you wrote.

 

I just think this year is different from years past. Pretty much the only position that could use an upgrade is RF. Some believe that Murton and Floyd could handle that together. Then you have DeRosa who is playing some there as well. C is another questionable position, but they just acquired Kendall and I don't see them making another move in that area. There aren't a whole lot of options at C to obtain anyway.

 

The rotation has been good. Marquis and Hill have been shaky at times, Marquis more than Hill. Marshall has been surprisingly consistent. Lilly and Zambrano have been great.

 

The bullpen has finally stabilized. Wood is on the verge of coming back (did I just type that?).

 

I just don't see many holes.

 

I think that's a ludicrous notion.

 

Call me crazy, but this team has holes. If they didn't, they'd be running away with the division right now and not just some middle of the road NL offense.

 

Every team has holes in some form or another.

 

Let me clarify, I don't see many holes that can be significantly upgraded with what we know to be available outside players.

 

I've given my thoughts on Dunn and Griffey. Maybe there is somebody else out there that hasn't been talked about.

[Backtobanks]

I'm one of those people anxiously awaited a deal, but I really am starting to think that our current platoon players (Fontenot, Derosa, Pagan, Floyd, Jones, Murton, etc.) are better than most of what's available especially when you consider the cost of giving up prospects to get them. Meanwhile, I'm still hoping for Griffey.

[YearofDaCubs]

Ryan Church!!!

I would love to see him be our starting CF.

[Bruno7481]

My only point is using "power" stats to evaluate Theriot is never going to have a positive outcome. It clearly is not his game.

 

At the same time though, he is doing an adequate job and is very cheap. The production he gives makes him valuable.

 

And power isn't just HR's. It's XBH's. Theriot needs to hit more XBH's of any kind.

 

You CAN live with Theriot at SS if you upgrade the OF, or C.

 

Agreed. But again, who's out there that will significantly upgrade either of those positions?

[jersey cubs fan]

Wow, never realized how much faith some people put in short-term hot streaks.

[erik316wttn]

I just find it impossible to believe Hendry could be that stupid.

 

Any time the question is "Is Jim Hendry really that stupid?" the answer is always "yes."

 

He had all winter to sign Z long-term and he dicked around doing that... what makes you think this is going to be any different?

Edited July 30, 2007 by erik316wttn

[jersey cubs fan]

I think using OPS to grade Theriot is a bad idea. Everyone knows he sin't going to have any power numbers, so his OPS is going to be low. His OBP is very good though. He palys good defense and has had tremendous success stealing bases. That is his role on this team and I think he does it well.

 

Of course a guy is going to look better when you only judge him by the good parts of his game. But overall productivity matters, and the Cubs are still far too below the elites in the NL for my taste, and it's because of far too many positions with compromised production.

 

I have no problem with Theriot playing SS. I do have a problem with a lineup that features 4 pretty big holes at SS, CF, C and RF. You can probably make the playoffs with any one of those black holes remaining so, but there's no reason to chance trying to make it with all 4.

 

I'm not sure why we're just assuming any trade the Cubs try would be a fleecing.

 

My only point is using "power" stats to evaluate Theriot is never going to have a positive outcome. It clearly is not his game.

 

At the same time though, he is doing an adequate job and is very cheap. The production he gives makes him valuable.

 

His cheap production is valuable if you then use that payroll flexibility to get production elsewhere.

[USSoccer]

My only point is using "power" stats to evaluate Theriot is never going to have a positive outcome. It clearly is not his game.

 

At the same time though, he is doing an adequate job and is very cheap. The production he gives makes him valuable.

 

And power isn't just HR's. It's XBH's. Theriot needs to hit more XBH's of any kind.

 

You CAN live with Theriot at SS if you upgrade the OF, or C.

 

Agreed. But again, who's out there that will significantly upgrade either of those positions?

 

Sosa in RF against LHP.

Church in CF

Payton/Pie platoon in CF

Ramon Hernandez C

 

There's also the argument to be made that you could find upgrades at nearly all of these spots in house; that a Murton/Floyd platoon in RF, a Pagan/Jones platoon in CF or a Pie CF, and a Soto/Hill combo at C would be better than what we have now. But the team has demostrated that Murton and Soto aren't going to get that opportunity.

[pitchcs]

I think we'll trade for Laird, now.

 

The Rangers got Salty, so they are +1 in the legitimate catcher department.

 

Trade for Laird, DFA Kendall or Hill. Or just [expletive] play Soto.

 

Play Murton always.

 

Play DeRosa at 2B, or elsewhere to give guys a rest.

 

Try Fontenot at SS again, use as a backup if that doesn't work out.

 

We can fill two huge holes without trades, but Lou doesn't see it.

 

God...

 

 

That's a very bad idea.

 

And I'm still not understanding people's problem with Theriot. Assuming we can add one bat, I think we are fine.