Levine: Cubs will try for Church through waivers p.18

[Derwood]

i just PM'ed my guy my cell # and told him to text me with anything

[Bruno7481]

I don't get the interest in Ryan Church:

 

Sub 700 OPS against lefties

Sub 800 OPS against righties

 

Probably the career .292/.375/.506 minor league numbers. He's been jacked around by the Nats, so I don't know that his major league numbers are indicative of his talent level.

 

So he's got the Matt Murton excuse as well?

Edited July 31, 2007 by Bruno7481

[ConstableRabbit]

i just PM'ed my guy my cell # and told him to text me with anything

 

Damn! I thought this post was the something!

 

 

I'm really desperate for a move...

[Bruno7481]

I don't get the interest in Ryan Church:

 

Sub 700 OPS against lefties

Sub 800 OPS against righties

 

Probably the career .292/.375/.506 minor league numbers. He's been jacked around by the Nats, so I don't know that his major league numbers are indicative of his talent level.

 

Or maybe its harder in the Major Leagues?

[Tracer Bullet]

I don't get the interest in Ryan Church:

 

Sub 700 OPS against lefties

Sub 800 OPS against righties

 

Probably the career .292/.375/.506 minor league numbers. He's been jacked around by the Nats, so I don't know that his major league numbers are indicative of his talent level.

 

Or maybe its harder in the Major Leagues?

 

You think so? The talent level is higher and so its more difficult to perform at the major league level? You know, I hadn't considered that, but I think you're probably on to something. Let me do a little more research and get back to you, Captain Obvious.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I don't get the interest in Ryan Church:

 

Sub 700 OPS against lefties

Sub 800 OPS against righties

 

Probably the career .292/.375/.506 minor league numbers. He's been jacked around by the Nats, so I don't know that his major league numbers are indicative of his talent level.

 

Or maybe its harder in the Major Leagues?

 

.287/.353/.466 in 2005

.276/.366/.526 in 2006

[nilodnayr]

I don't get the interest in Ryan Church:

 

Sub 700 OPS against lefties

Sub 800 OPS against righties

 

He's part of the hallowed triumvirate of NSBB along with Brad Wilkerson and Mark Bellhorn.

 

KENT!!!!

[Tracer Bullet]

I don't get the interest in Ryan Church:

 

Sub 700 OPS against lefties

Sub 800 OPS against righties

 

Probably the career .292/.375/.506 minor league numbers. He's been jacked around by the Nats, so I don't know that his major league numbers are indicative of his talent level.

 

So he's got the Matt Murton excuse as well?

 

Did you really post two separate snarky posts to my one post? Wanted to get your shot at Murton in, but then forgot to make your sarcastic comment too. Well done!

[Bruno7481]

I don't get the interest in Ryan Church:

 

Sub 700 OPS against lefties

Sub 800 OPS against righties

 

Probably the career .292/.375/.506 minor league numbers. He's been jacked around by the Nats, so I don't know that his major league numbers are indicative of his talent level.

 

Or maybe its harder in the Major Leagues?

 

You think so? The talent level is higher and so its more difficult to perform at the major league level? You know, I hadn't considered that, but I think you're probably on to something. Let me do a little more research and get back to you, Captain Obvious.

 

Well, don't put it on a tee for me. He was good in the minors, but its not guarantee for success.

 

I think Church is a decent player, but nothing more than that.

[Bruno7481]

I don't get the interest in Ryan Church:

 

Sub 700 OPS against lefties

Sub 800 OPS against righties

 

Probably the career .292/.375/.506 minor league numbers. He's been jacked around by the Nats, so I don't know that his major league numbers are indicative of his talent level.

 

So he's got the Matt Murton excuse as well?

 

Did you really post two separate snarky posts to my one post? Wanted to get your shot at Murton in, but then forgot to make your sarcastic comment too. Well done!

 

Lighten up man, its just a joke. I like Muton just fine.

[cubweiser03]

I had a dream last night that we got Griffey at the last minute.. I hope it comes true!

Does anybody remember the day that Doug Mirabelli was traded back to the Red Sox on Wakefield's day to pitch? The Sox picked him up at the airport and he jumped out of a limo in full uniform and basically ran right onto the field minutes before the first pitch.

 

Well this morning I was imagining the Cubs whisking Griffey from O'Hare to Wrigley in time for tonight's game. In my version though, the limo pulls up on Sheffield moments before the first pitch is thrown, and Griffey goes straight through the "knot hole" gate to take his position in RF.

 

So long as he doesnt open the gate Todd Jones style and have it slam him in the face that would be awesome.

[Tracer Bullet]

I don't get the interest in Ryan Church:

 

Sub 700 OPS against lefties

Sub 800 OPS against righties

 

Probably the career .292/.375/.506 minor league numbers. He's been jacked around by the Nats, so I don't know that his major league numbers are indicative of his talent level.

 

Or maybe its harder in the Major Leagues?

 

You think so? The talent level is higher and so its more difficult to perform at the major league level? You know, I hadn't considered that, but I think you're probably on to something. Let me do a little more research and get back to you, Captain Obvious.

 

Well, don't put it on a tee for me. He was good in the minors, but its not guarantee for success.

 

I think Church is a decent player, but nothing more than that.

 

What did I put on a tee? I cited some very good minor league numbers as a reason why people might want him. No, minor league numbers don't guarantee success, but if you have bad minor league numbers, I'd guess your chances of having good major league numbers are even worse.

[SouthSideRyan]

A rotating platoon of Church/Floyd/Jones/Pagan/Murton would be dreamy. Once again people are bizarrely only considering this season's #s as they did with Murton, and these are the same people arguing that Kendall isn't as bad as he is casue it's just one season.

 

Church OPSd nearly 900 in probably the worst hitters park in baseball last year. He's had his playing time limited by an old coot of a manager and still managed OPS+ of 120 and 128. The question is what isn't to like about Ryan Church?

[Derwood]

he's got nothing new for me yet

[Tracer Bullet]

A rotating platoon of Church/Floyd/Jones/Pagan/Murton would be dreamy. Once again people are bizarrely only considering this season's #s as they did with Murton, and these are the same people arguing that Kendall isn't as bad as he is casue it's just one season.

 

Church OPSd nearly 900 in probably the worst hitters park in baseball last year. He's had his playing time limited by an old coot of a manager and still managed OPS+ of 120 and 128. The question is what isn't to like about Ryan Church?

 

6 OFs is a bit much, isn't it?

[JeffH]

A rotating platoon of Church/Floyd/Jones/Pagan/Murton would be dreamy. Once again people are bizarrely only considering this season's #s as they did with Murton, and these are the same people arguing that Kendall isn't as bad as he is casue it's just one season.

 

Church OPSd nearly 900 in probably the worst hitters park in baseball last year. He's had his playing time limited by an old coot of a manager and still managed OPS+ of 120 and 128. The question is what isn't to like about Ryan Church?

 

I think Church would be a nice addition, but his BABIPs in 2005 and 2006 were .349 and .360. It's .294 so far this season.

 

If he played in a park where he could hit a few more HR, he could settle in somewhere in the .800-.820 OPS range. Very useful, but nothing great.

[SouthSideRyan]

A rotating platoon of Church/Floyd/Jones/Pagan/Murton would be dreamy. Once again people are bizarrely only considering this season's #s as they did with Murton, and these are the same people arguing that Kendall isn't as bad as he is casue it's just one season.

 

Church OPSd nearly 900 in probably the worst hitters park in baseball last year. He's had his playing time limited by an old coot of a manager and still managed OPS+ of 120 and 128. The question is what isn't to like about Ryan Church?

 

6 OFs is a bit much, isn't it?

 

Well dumping Jones wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, but I still don't think it's possible without eating a lot of the contract. I expect Floyd to head to the DL for at least a 15 day trip before the year's over. Since it doesn't seem like they're gonna play Cedeno anyways, might as well go with Theriot/Fontenot as the only backup IF.

[ConstableRabbit]

A rotating platoon of Church/Floyd/Jones/Pagan/Murton would be dreamy. Once again people are bizarrely only considering this season's #s as they did with Murton, and these are the same people arguing that Kendall isn't as bad as he is casue it's just one season.

 

Church OPSd nearly 900 in probably the worst hitters park in baseball last year. He's had his playing time limited by an old coot of a manager and still managed OPS+ of 120 and 128. The question is what isn't to like about Ryan Church?

 

I see what you're saying, and I do somewhat agree with you, but Murton and Kendall are really different stories. I don't think you can compare the outlier seasons of a 10+ year veteran who has hit for a .298 career avg with a young player who played well in the minors, for a year in the majors, and has struggled this year.

[Tracer Bullet]

A rotating platoon of Church/Floyd/Jones/Pagan/Murton would be dreamy. Once again people are bizarrely only considering this season's #s as they did with Murton, and these are the same people arguing that Kendall isn't as bad as he is casue it's just one season.

 

Church OPSd nearly 900 in probably the worst hitters park in baseball last year. He's had his playing time limited by an old coot of a manager and still managed OPS+ of 120 and 128. The question is what isn't to like about Ryan Church?

 

6 OFs is a bit much, isn't it?

 

Well dumping Jones wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, but I still don't think it's possible without eating a lot of the contract. I expect Floyd to head to the DL for at least a 15 day trip before the year's over. Since it doesn't seem like they're gonna play Cedeno anyways, might as well go with Theriot/Fontenot as the only backup IF.

 

I'd love to dump Jones and I wish Floyd were just pinch-hitting. But Jones appears to be staying and Lou is in no rush to move Floyd out of the starting role. I'd love to have a starting OF of Soriano, Church, Murton with Floyd and Pagan as backups, but I don't see how that's possible this year, so I'm guessing if we add Church (or any other OF), Murton goes back to AAA (if he's not traded away).

[Tracer Bullet]

A rotating platoon of Church/Floyd/Jones/Pagan/Murton would be dreamy. Once again people are bizarrely only considering this season's #s as they did with Murton, and these are the same people arguing that Kendall isn't as bad as he is casue it's just one season.

 

Church OPSd nearly 900 in probably the worst hitters park in baseball last year. He's had his playing time limited by an old coot of a manager and still managed OPS+ of 120 and 128. The question is what isn't to like about Ryan Church?

 

I see what you're saying, and I do somewhat agree with you, but Murton and Kendall are really different stories. I don't think you can compare the outlier seasons of a 10+ year veteran who has hit for a .298 career avg with a young player who played well in the minors, for a year in the majors, and has struggled this year.

 

I don't see your point. Are you saying Kendall is being undervalued and Murton overvalued (by the people making the comments you bolded in SSR's post)?

[SouthSideRyan]

A rotating platoon of Church/Floyd/Jones/Pagan/Murton would be dreamy. Once again people are bizarrely only considering this season's #s as they did with Murton, and these are the same people arguing that Kendall isn't as bad as he is casue it's just one season.

 

Church OPSd nearly 900 in probably the worst hitters park in baseball last year. He's had his playing time limited by an old coot of a manager and still managed OPS+ of 120 and 128. The question is what isn't to like about Ryan Church?

 

I see what you're saying, and I do somewhat agree with you, but Murton and Kendall are really different stories. I don't think you can compare the outlier seasons of a 10+ year veteran who has hit for a .298 career avg with a young player who played well in the minors, for a year in the majors, and has struggled this year.

 

But said 10 year veteran is a catcher on the wrong side of 30 who has been in decline for the past 3 years. Said young players are players in the prime of their careers who had trended upward in the years previous.

[ConstableRabbit]

A rotating platoon of Church/Floyd/Jones/Pagan/Murton would be dreamy. Once again people are bizarrely only considering this season's #s as they did with Murton, and these are the same people arguing that Kendall isn't as bad as he is casue it's just one season.

 

Church OPSd nearly 900 in probably the worst hitters park in baseball last year. He's had his playing time limited by an old coot of a manager and still managed OPS+ of 120 and 128. The question is what isn't to like about Ryan Church?

 

I see what you're saying, and I do somewhat agree with you, but Murton and Kendall are really different stories. I don't think you can compare the outlier seasons of a 10+ year veteran who has hit for a .298 career avg with a young player who played well in the minors, for a year in the majors, and has struggled this year.

 

I don't see your point. Are you saying Kendall is being undervalued and Murton overvalued (by the people making the comments you bolded in SSR's post)?

 

No. I'm saying when someone says that it's more likely that Kendall will return to MLB-career norms than Murton, I don't consider it an abomination.

 

That being said, I do think that Murton -- given playing time -- can get back to form. I just don't think someone's a hypocrite if they think Kendall will get return to career norms and Murton won't.

[Tracer Bullet]

A rotating platoon of Church/Floyd/Jones/Pagan/Murton would be dreamy. Once again people are bizarrely only considering this season's #s as they did with Murton, and these are the same people arguing that Kendall isn't as bad as he is casue it's just one season.

 

Church OPSd nearly 900 in probably the worst hitters park in baseball last year. He's had his playing time limited by an old coot of a manager and still managed OPS+ of 120 and 128. The question is what isn't to like about Ryan Church?

 

I see what you're saying, and I do somewhat agree with you, but Murton and Kendall are really different stories. I don't think you can compare the outlier seasons of a 10+ year veteran who has hit for a .298 career avg with a young player who played well in the minors, for a year in the majors, and has struggled this year.

 

I don't see your point. Are you saying Kendall is being undervalued and Murton overvalued (by the people making the comments you bolded in SSR's post)?

 

No. I'm saying when someone says that it's more likely that Kendall will return to MLB-career norms than Murton, I don't consider it an abomination.

 

That being said, I do think that Murton -- given playing time -- can get back to form. I just don't think someone's a hypocrite if they think Kendall will get return to career norms and Murton won't.

 

Hypocrite? No. But I agree w/ SSR that it's bizarre.

[ConstableRabbit]

A rotating platoon of Church/Floyd/Jones/Pagan/Murton would be dreamy. Once again people are bizarrely only considering this season's #s as they did with Murton, and these are the same people arguing that Kendall isn't as bad as he is casue it's just one season.

 

Church OPSd nearly 900 in probably the worst hitters park in baseball last year. He's had his playing time limited by an old coot of a manager and still managed OPS+ of 120 and 128. The question is what isn't to like about Ryan Church?

 

I see what you're saying, and I do somewhat agree with you, but Murton and Kendall are really different stories. I don't think you can compare the outlier seasons of a 10+ year veteran who has hit for a .298 career avg with a young player who played well in the minors, for a year in the majors, and has struggled this year.

 

But said 10 year veteran is a catcher on the wrong side of 30 who has been in decline for the past 3 years. Said young players are players in the prime of their careers who had trended upward in the years previous.

 

Oh I definitely agree with the catcher over 30 thing. But this is a pretty steep dropoff... BA is 70 pts lower than last year and OPS+ halved.

 

You see what I'm saying, I see what you're saying. I don't want to detract from the Church discussion.

[katway]

Living in DC, I've followed Ryan Church's performance over the past 3 years. He's extremely streaky. When he's on, he can be a excellent hitter (Will Clark type swing), lots of gap doubles, power, etc. When he's off, he can be one of the worst hitters at the plate, just looks totally lost at times. He plays ok defense in the corners, but is a below average center fielder. I wouldn't pay too much for him -- way too inconsistent but he's got a good ceiling (however, just as likely to out of the league in 2 years as he is to be an all-star) and a change of scenery may help him get his head strait.