Levine: Cubs will try for Church through waivers p.18

[RammyFanny]

Side note:

 

Given how ridiculously non-agressive Quade has been at third base, how on earth do we know it wasn't him holding Murton up? Even forgetting the Murton stuff for a moment, Quade has been a huge failure as 3B coach, IMHO. I'd say it's pretty likely he had some part in the screwups there.

 

IMO Quade hasn't been bad at all. Everyone makes a mistake once in awhile, but I don't remember too many games this year saying "Why Quade WHY?!!" Most of the times when he holds up runners our 3 or 4 hitters are coming up, so it's not like you can't find reason in it. And on the Murton mistakes, I don't think Quade would be at fault for those either. Most were groundballs and on grounders you have to decide whether you are going on contact or playing it safe, and that's either Murton's choice or possibly Lou's.

[NewUserName]

At this point, I would rather have Church, Pagan, DeRosa, or Floyd in RF than Murton. Why is the conversation about Murton. He's the 5th or 6th OF on the organization depth chart depending on where you place Pie. He's had how many AB's now? And I don't want to hear the complaints about playing time, you EARN more PT, it isnt just handed to you. See Pagan, Theriot, Fontenot, Marmol, etc.

 

I would package Murton and Hill/Marshall in some sort of combination for a REAL upgrade for C/SS/RF in about .0001 of a second. I'm not sure if Church falls into this category, but still, I really would like to see Murton be traded at a decent point in value, he's not going to see serious PT here.

 

 

He did earn his playing time. He had a .800 ops as a rookie. Most teams would have not brought in 3 guys to take his PT away after such a rookie season.

 

 

To be fair though Lou has been pretty consistant with players who are slumping. Only Koyie Hill seems to be above this.

 

I think though a Murton and Hill/Marshall better get something more than Church. Church is only marginally better than Murton and Hill and Marshall are PROVEN major league starters. Who exactly would you have starting for us if this move was made.

[Keener98]

We already have a Ryan Church, he is playing in Iowa.

 

Sure, except this Ryan Church bats lefty, can catch a flyball and score from third on a ball hit to shortstop.

 

The only valid argument in that post is that he is a left handed bat.

 

I guess I imagined Murton dropping two routine flyballs in right field. I guess I imagined the three times early in the season when his crippling indecision as a runner at third cost the Cubs runs.

 

All you need to know about his future with the Cubs is that Lou has referred to him on several occasions as "the guy who played a little right field for us earlier in the year." Lou hasn't spoken Murton's name since he left. They called up the great Jake Fox and then Scott Moore instead of Murton.

 

Lou's "get me somebody who can run the bases and catch the ball tirade" was directed just as much at Murton as it was Barrett.

 

I know Murton's hitting .326 at Iowa. Good for him. I also know that Felix Pie and Ronny Cedeno are hitting .372 and .360 there. Apparently Des Moines has sprung a mountain range since we last looked and the I-Cubs are playing at altitude, it's the only explanation for why guys who can barely hit their weight in Chicago are excelling down there.

 

Murton's only position is left field and that's booked for the next seven and a half years. Try not to get too attached.

 

When did Murton weigh 294 lbs, because .294 is his career batting average in Chicago?

[GaborBako]

You are right, it is the high altitude of the road parks in the PCL that contains the secret to that potent I-Cubs lineup.

 

Murton's home average: .379

Murton's road average: .229

 

Pie's home average: .414

Pie's road average: .333

 

Cedeno's home average: .404

Cedeno's road average: .292

 

Des Moines' altitude is 944 feet, nearly one fifth of a mile. Must be why the ball is jumping.

 

Look, I like Matt Murton, he was very impressive as a rookie in 2005, even if all of his numbers dropped in his first full season (most glaringly a 70 point drop in slugging). He probably didn't get enough at bats consistently enough this year, but there was a reason for it. When Soriano moved to left full-time, there was no place for Murton. He can't play right field. He makes Cliff look like Vlad Guerrero out there. You can ignore it all you want, but he dropped two routine flyballs in only 20 starts in right. Lou doesn't trust him and obviously doesn't want him around.

 

The Cubs need another offensive player, but Murton's not the answer, because there is nowhere for him to play on defense.

 

Oh, and nice try blaming Quade for the preponderance of baserunning gaffes by Murton. If you're on third and you have to wait for your coach to tell you to go on a grounder to the middle infield it's already too late.

 

Murton's a high average hitter who is below average in every other facet of the game.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I don't know why everyone understands that it's a bad idea to judge a player based on a couple at bats that they've seen, but when a player has a poor stretch defensively it seems to stick with them for life.

 

Defense is not a static ability.

 

There are reports that Murton has made several fantastic defensive plays since he has been at Iowa, he's not nearly the liability there some would like to consider him to be. At his level of production is it worth to deal with probable below average defense? Maybe not for the long term. Is it worth it when the alternatives are playing Cliff Floyd, who can't seem to stay healthy, hit anything but singles, or not fall down on any play in the outfield? Most definitely.

[Balsa]

I bet RFK is killing Church.

 

I think he would flourish outside of it, and be worth a minor league pitcher.

 

Get him Jim!

[NCCubFan]

Defense is not a static ability.

Exhibit 1: Aramis Ramirez.

[mhuber92211]

doesn't Church have major attitude problems?

 

I would rather go back for Brendan Harris.

[CoolHandLuke]

doesn't Church have major attitude problems?

 

I would rather go back for Brendan Harris.

 

Losing playing time to a guy like Nook Logan tends to do that to a player.

[GaborBako]

 

Defense is not a static ability.

 

It is when your arm is terrible.

 

And to the other guy who compared it to Ramirez improving at third base. The difference is that Ramirez always had the tools to be a good third baseman. You can't learn to have a good arm, you either have one or you don't.

 

Murton's a mediocre defender in left, and is going to have to find a new team if he's ever going to play again.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

 

Defense is not a static ability.

 

It is when your arm is terrible.

 

And to the other guy who compared it to Ramirez improving at third base. The difference is that Ramirez always had the tools to be a good third baseman. You can't learn to have a good arm, you either have one or you don't.

 

Murton's a mediocre defender in left, and is going to have to find a new team if he's ever going to play again.

 

This is the first time you've mentioned arm in your stance against Murton's defense. Like I said, there have been glowing reports of him doing well at AAA, including one play where he ran down a fly ball in foul territory then gunned down a guy at 3rd. We aren't talking about Juan Pierre type arm strength here. And again, we have to relate his ability against what we have. Floyd can barely touch his toes without pulling something anymore, and he's not about to uncork any laserbeams from the corner to gun down baserunners either.

[Have a seat, Neifi]

I believe Church is just one of those guys who "strongly prefers" to start...he's well within his right to be PO'd considering the OF triumvirate of Austin Kearns, Nook Logan, Robert Fick that often patrols the outfield at RFK.

[NCCubFan]

Floyd can barely look at his toes without pulling something anymore, and he's not about to uncork any laserbeams from the corner to gun down baserunners either.

Fixed. :)

[soapy]

it absolutely astonishes me that people keep bringing up murton's defense as a reason for him not to be with the cubs while floyd is currently the starting RFer (when healthy). wtf?

 

back on topic, i'd certainly be interested in church. although the nats were allegedly asking for the moon in the off-season.

Edited July 24, 2007 by soapy

[Soriano12]

it absolutely astonishes me that people keep bringing up murton's defense as a reason for him not to be with the cubs while floyd is currently the starting RFer (when healthy). wtf?

 

wft indeeed.

[Have a seat, Neifi]

it absolutely astonishes me that people keep bringing up murton's defense as a reason for him not to be with the cubs while floyd is currently the starting RFer (when healthy). wtf?

 

back on topic, i'd certainly be interested in church. although the nats were allegedly asking for the moon in the off-season.

Absolutely true about RF. And DeRosa doesn't inspire much confidence out in RF, either. We're talking about a guy who two tweeks ago misplayed a ball in RFK so badly that Dmitri Young ended up with a stand-up triple. DMITRI YOUNG. That takes serious effort, folks.

 

And yea, good luck dealing with Bowden. He'll bring up Hill, Gallagher and probably Patterson just to get talks started. Guy has no clue to the value of his own players relative to the major league market.

[GaborBako]

 

Defense is not a static ability.

 

It is when your arm is terrible.

 

And to the other guy who compared it to Ramirez improving at third base. The difference is that Ramirez always had the tools to be a good third baseman. You can't learn to have a good arm, you either have one or you don't.

 

Murton's a mediocre defender in left, and is going to have to find a new team if he's ever going to play again.

 

This is the first time you've mentioned arm in your stance against Murton's defense. Like I said, there have been glowing reports of him doing well at AAA, including one play where he ran down a fly ball in foul territory then gunned down a guy at 3rd. We aren't talking about Juan Pierre type arm strength here. And again, we have to relate his ability against what we have. Floyd can barely touch his toes without pulling something anymore, and he's not about to uncork any laserbeams from the corner to gun down baserunners either.

 

And yet, Floyd is playing right in Chicago and Murton is in Des Moines. Those reports must be glowing. So glowing that Jake Fox ended up in Chicago instead of the red headed stepchild.

[soapy]

 

And yet, Floyd is playing right in Chicago and Murton is in Des Moines. Those reports must be glowing. So glowing that Jake Fox ended up in Chicago instead of the red headed stepchild.

 

haha...yes. we should all just pretend that fox being called up had nothing to do with him being able to play 1B with Lee out. you're right. murton sucks.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

 

Defense is not a static ability.

 

It is when your arm is terrible.

 

And to the other guy who compared it to Ramirez improving at third base. The difference is that Ramirez always had the tools to be a good third baseman. You can't learn to have a good arm, you either have one or you don't.

 

Murton's a mediocre defender in left, and is going to have to find a new team if he's ever going to play again.

 

This is the first time you've mentioned arm in your stance against Murton's defense. Like I said, there have been glowing reports of him doing well at AAA, including one play where he ran down a fly ball in foul territory then gunned down a guy at 3rd. We aren't talking about Juan Pierre type arm strength here. And again, we have to relate his ability against what we have. Floyd can barely touch his toes without pulling something anymore, and he's not about to uncork any laserbeams from the corner to gun down baserunners either.

 

And yet, Floyd is playing right in Chicago and Murton is in Des Moines. Those reports must be glowing. So glowing that Jake Fox ended up in Chicago instead of the red headed stepchild.

 

Fox was called up because he could play 1B, and even then,"the Cubs made the decision so it must be right" has not been a strong argument for....well, ever.

[CoolHandLuke]

it absolutely astonishes me that people keep bringing up murton's defense as a reason for him not to be with the cubs while floyd is currently the starting RFer (when healthy). wtf?

 

back on topic, i'd certainly be interested in church. although the nats were allegedly asking for the moon in the off-season.

Absolutely true about RF. And DeRosa doesn't inspire much confidence out in RF, either. We're talking about a guy who two tweeks ago misplayed a ball in RFK so badly that Dmitri Young ended up with a stand-up triple. DMITRI YOUNG. That takes serious effort, folks.

 

And yea, good luck dealing with Bowden. He'll bring up Hill, Gallagher and probably Patterson just to get talks started. Guy has no clue to the value of his own players relative to the major league market.

 

That game plan works well when dealing with Wayne Krivsky.

[coreyMVP]

it absolutely astonishes me that people keep bringing up murton's defense as a reason for him not to be with the cubs while floyd is currently the starting RFer (when healthy).

 

I may have missed it, but I don't recall Floyd dropping routine fly balls. Murton is a horrible outfielder.

[VanceJergins]

it absolutely astonishes me that people keep bringing up murton's defense as a reason for him not to be with the cubs while floyd is currently the starting RFer (when healthy).

 

I may have missed it, but I don't recall Floyd dropping routine fly balls. Murton is a horrible outfielder.

 

Floyd has gotten the last out in the past 2 games. I'm going to base my entire argument on that and say that Floyd should never bat again because if he bats then it will be the last out of the game and the Cubs will lose. Thats what I call unfailing logic.

[soapy]

it absolutely astonishes me that people keep bringing up murton's defense as a reason for him not to be with the cubs while floyd is currently the starting RFer (when healthy).

 

I may have missed it, but I don't recall Floyd dropping routine fly balls. Murton is a horrible outfielder.

 

](*,)

 

You're probably right. I'm sure Floyd has never made an error in his career. My bad. I mean, after all, you don't recall it.

[coreyMVP]

Saying that someone (Floyd) does not drop routine fly balls does not equal saying he "never made an error in his life."

Murton seems like a nice person, but he makes Dave Kingman look graceful.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Aramis Ramirez went 0 for 4 with 2 Ks on Sunday, therefore he is a bad hitter.