Don't look now...

[NCCubFan]

Does anyone else see parallels between the way this season has gone and the way 2001 went? Insert the Cubs as the Astros and the Brewers as the Cubs. The Cards are the Cards. The Cubs were 3.5 games up at the break that year, but had been out in front by 6.5 when the astros were struggling. They put it together and passed the Cubs in August, and the Cards got hot and passed both. I think both Cards and Astros finished with 93 wins and the cubs with 88. Also, if you remember that year, the Cubs started out hot, then swooned before going on another hot streak before the break, similar to what the Brewers have done. Yes, this is anecdotal and has no sabr value as an analysis, but the tone of the season seems eerily reminiscent.

I remember that well. Specifically, they lost 8 in a row, then immediately turned it around and won 12 in a row. I don't recall any other team having such a long winning streak immediately on the heels of such a long losing streak without even a single game between the streaks.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Does anyone else see parallels between the way this season has gone and the way 2001 went? Insert the Cubs as the Astros and the Brewers as the Cubs. The Cards are the Cards. The Cubs were 3.5 games up at the break that year, but had been out in front by 6.5 when the astros were struggling. They put it together and passed the Cubs in August, and the Cards got hot and passed both. I think both Cards and Astros finished with 93 wins and the cubs with 88. Also, if you remember that year, the Cubs started out hot, then swooned before going on another hot streak before the break, similar to what the Brewers have done. Yes, this is anecdotal and has no sabr value as an analysis, but the tone of the season seems eerily reminiscent.

I remember that well. Specifically, they lost 8 in a row, then immediately turned it around and won 12 in a row. I don't recall any other team having such a long winning streak immediately on the heels of such a long losing streak without even a single game between the streaks.

 

If I really strain my memory, I want to say that the streak was snapped when a player reached over the wall (not a jump, it was a very short wall) to take back a Sosa homer that would have saved the game for the Cubs with two outs in the ninth.

[NCCubFan]

Does anyone else see parallels between the way this season has gone and the way 2001 went? Insert the Cubs as the Astros and the Brewers as the Cubs. The Cards are the Cards. The Cubs were 3.5 games up at the break that year, but had been out in front by 6.5 when the astros were struggling. They put it together and passed the Cubs in August, and the Cards got hot and passed both. I think both Cards and Astros finished with 93 wins and the cubs with 88. Also, if you remember that year, the Cubs started out hot, then swooned before going on another hot streak before the break, similar to what the Brewers have done. Yes, this is anecdotal and has no sabr value as an analysis, but the tone of the season seems eerily reminiscent.

I remember that well. Specifically, they lost 8 in a row, then immediately turned it around and won 12 in a row. I don't recall any other team having such a long winning streak immediately on the heels of such a long losing streak without even a single game between the streaks.

 

If I really strain my memory, I want to say that the streak was snapped when a player reached over the wall (not a jump, it was a very short wall) to take back a Sosa homer that would have saved the game for the Cubs with two outs in the ninth.

I don't recall that detail, but it could be. The Cubs lost 4-2 to the Brewers to end the streak.

[Drew Doughty]

Does anyone else see parallels between the way this season has gone and the way 2001 went? Insert the Cubs as the Astros and the Brewers as the Cubs. The Cards are the Cards. The Cubs were 3.5 games up at the break that year, but had been out in front by 6.5 when the astros were struggling. They put it together and passed the Cubs in August, and the Cards got hot and passed both. I think both Cards and Astros finished with 93 wins and the cubs with 88. Also, if you remember that year, the Cubs started out hot, then swooned before going on another hot streak before the break, similar to what the Brewers have done. Yes, this is anecdotal and has no sabr value as an analysis, but the tone of the season seems eerily reminiscent.

I remember that well. Specifically, they lost 8 in a row, then immediately turned it around and won 12 in a row. I don't recall any other team having such a long winning streak immediately on the heels of such a long losing streak without even a single game between the streaks.

 

If I really strain my memory, I want to say that the streak was snapped when a player reached over the wall (not a jump, it was a very short wall) to take back a Sosa homer that would have saved the game for the Cubs with two outs in the ninth.

 

pretty sure it was everyone's favorite recent Cubs RF: Jeromy Burnitz.

[third eye]

Does anyone else see parallels between the way this season has gone and the way 2001 went? Insert the Cubs as the Astros and the Brewers as the Cubs. The Cards are the Cards. The Cubs were 3.5 games up at the break that year, but had been out in front by 6.5 when the astros were struggling. They put it together and passed the Cubs in August, and the Cards got hot and passed both. I think both Cards and Astros finished with 93 wins and the cubs with 88. Also, if you remember that year, the Cubs started out hot, then swooned before going on another hot streak before the break, similar to what the Brewers have done. Yes, this is anecdotal and has no sabr value as an analysis, but the tone of the season seems eerily reminiscent.

I remember that well. Specifically, they lost 8 in a row, then immediately turned it around and won 12 in a row. I don't recall any other team having such a long winning streak immediately on the heels of such a long losing streak without even a single game between the streaks.

 

If I really strain my memory, I want to say that the streak was snapped when a player reached over the wall (not a jump, it was a very short wall) to take back a Sosa homer that would have saved the game for the Cubs with two outs in the ninth.

 

pretty sure it was everyone's favorite recent Cubs RF: Jeromy Burnitz.

 

Yep, I'm pretty sure thats who it was. Also, it was Sammy up to bat with 2 out in the 9th, the Cubs down by 2 and either one or two on base. That would have either tied or won it. They went on to sweep the Cards at Wrigley immediately after. In any case, do the 2007 Brewers = the 2001 Cubs?

[AlwaysaCub]

Does anyone else see parallels between the way this season has gone and the way 2001 went? Insert the Cubs as the Astros and the Brewers as the Cubs. The Cards are the Cards. The Cubs were 3.5 games up at the break that year, but had been out in front by 6.5 when the astros were struggling. They put it together and passed the Cubs in August, and the Cards got hot and passed both. I think both Cards and Astros finished with 93 wins and the cubs with 88. Also, if you remember that year, the Cubs started out hot, then swooned before going on another hot streak before the break, similar to what the Brewers have done. Yes, this is anecdotal and has no sabr value as an analysis, but the tone of the season seems eerily reminiscent.

I remember that well. Specifically, they lost 8 in a row, then immediately turned it around and won 12 in a row. I don't recall any other team having such a long winning streak immediately on the heels of such a long losing streak without even a single game between the streaks.

 

If I really strain my memory, I want to say that the streak was snapped when a player reached over the wall (not a jump, it was a very short wall) to take back a Sosa homer that would have saved the game for the Cubs with two outs in the ninth.

 

pretty sure it was everyone's favorite recent Cubs RF: Jeromy Burnitz.

 

Yep, I'm pretty sure thats who it was. Also, it was Sammy up to bat with 2 out in the 9th, the Cubs down by 2 and either one or two on base. That would have either tied or won it. They went on to sweep the Cards at Wrigley immediately after. In any case, do the 2007 Brewers = the 2001 Cubs?

 

I hesitantly agree.

In terms of makeup: This Brewers team is younger and offensively more balanced, but they still don't score all that many runs. Fielder's consistency with the streaks and slumps of the rest of the players around him, but I think Braun and Corey Hart are better than anything the Cubs had on offense with the possible exception of Rondell White and, later, the Crime Dog.

 

The Pitching is the key here also, and is fairly similar. Oft injured ace Ben Sheets (sort of a cross of Lieber and Wood in 2001) is pitching well, but the 3-5 of the Brew Crew's rotation is sucky, kinda like the Cubs rotation was in 2001. The Bullpen is good, but also liable to be overworked, as was with the Cubs in 2001. Turnbow is a decent Farnsworth comp, and Cordero is somewhat better than Flash. Matt Wise is sorta like TVP I would say also, so these arms could get tired.

 

So, for the season storyline, I could definitely see a late slide keyed by a tired bullpen, A la 2001 Northsiders, with Prince Fielder fighting his hardest all the way.

 

By the way, I wouldn't rule out such a fate for this year's bullpen either. Just sayin'.

[soccer10k]

I was in full believe mode in 2004. Thats was the most talented roster top to bottom i have seen as long as I've followed baseball (maybe skewed a bit by my blue tinted goggles).

 

Definitely one of the most (if not for sure the most) talented Cubs teams I've seen.

 

That team should have ripped through the league after the trade deadline

 

And the most depressing thing looking back at the end of '04 is the starting pitching. Zambrano and Prior were unhitable. Rusch was even pitching out of his mind... but that bullpen :(

 

I remember listening to a game against the Reds from September '04. Prior was flirting with 20K for the first half, kind of lost steam with the K's near the end but ended up with 16 or 18. Gave up a solo home run somewhere in the later innings and left after 9IP with a ND, and of course the Cubs lost it in extras.

 

EDIT - Just looked it up, it was his last start of the year, sept. 30th, so I think the season was all but officially dead at that point.

 

9.0IP, 3H, 1R, 1ER, 1HR, 1BB, 16K

Sosa had a solo HR

Kearns had the HR against Prior

Javier #$%^&^ Valentin doubled in the winning run.... Adam Dunn (who set the major league strikeout record for season that day)

 

And a Rusch start where the only offensive support he got was a solo home run... that he hit.

 

I followed that Prior game on Gamecast and had to leave after the ninth or tenth inning and was cursing the Cubs in the 8-10th innings for not scoring any runs for Prior.

[soccer10k]

I'm definitely optimistic at this point for both the division and the wild card because of the second half schedule.

 

Even with the optimism there's still a small part of me (well not that small) that feels the Cubs are just going to end up letting me down.

[moorecg]

I'm also, very slowly, gaining confidence in our bullpen...(shudders)....I like that Dempster got a couple weeks off to rest....hopefully he'll be fresh in the 2nd half. Marmol has been outstanding....Howrey, Wuertz, Ohmen, Petrick have all been solid to good....If we can shorten games in the 2nd half to 6 innings for our starters thats where really big streaks start.....

 

 

(also...a very small part of me still has visions of Kerry Wood riding in on a white hospital gurney and being a very effective late 2nd half set up man....Wood, Marmol, Dempster....the other guys can pitch the 6th, and matchups....).... :fingerscrossed:

[soapy]

They have my attention and I'm starting to become cautiously optimistic. I refuse to get fully excited though until they continue this play for a more prolonged period. I've been burned too many times.

 

I will admit that last Friday (the Ramirez walk-off) was probably the most excited I've been about a game since 2004. I'm trying hard to restrain my expectations though.

[Soul]

This is fun to watch right now. I'm not going to open myself up for disappointment yet though.

 

I agree the Cards look like they will get stronger with the return of a couple players. They've not been all that bad lately even without them.

 

I was listening to the radio on the 4th and a couple of fill in yahoos were dismissing the Cubs wild card chances. I was screaming at the radio. How stupid. All the teams in front of us will be beating up on each other in the 2nd half, while we enjoy a much easier schedule. Of course it's possible we can win the wild card.

[CubColtPacer]

This is fun to watch right now. I'm not going to open myself up for disappointment yet though.

 

I agree the Cards look like they will get stronger with the return of a couple players. They've not been all that bad lately even without them.

 

I was listening to the radio on the 4th and a couple of fill in yahoos were dismissing the Cubs wild card chances. I was screaming at the radio. How stupid. All the teams in front of us will be beating up on each other in the 2nd half, while we enjoy a much easier schedule. Of course it's possible we can win the wild card.

 

Yup, and the hardest part (catching the other teams in the first place) the Cubs seem to be doing quickly right now. Only 4 games out of the lead, 2.5 out of 2nd, and 1 out of 3rd, and those numbers continue to drop. If the Cubs can win the Pittsburgh/Houston/Giants series coming up, then they could very easily be only 1-2 out of the lead when Arizona comes into town in a couple of weeks.

[moorecg]

I agree the Cards look like they will get stronger with the return of a couple players. They've not been all that bad lately even without them.

 

Thats why I've been so conflicted about them beating the D-backs lately....

I'd sure love to see them 7-10 games back and selling at the trade deadline.

 

One good thing is...their bullpen is overworked (3rd most relief innings this year in the NL) Factoring that, with the consideration that 1/2 of their starting staff is converted relievers and you have to expect that they'll have a lot of tired arms in the 2nd half (and they've also played a much easier schedule than us so far(far fewer games against teams with winning records)...so by the numbers, they should have a tougher 2nd half....I just keep remembering that they are the cards...and I won't feel good till they are dead.

[jyoung55]

I'm also, very slowly, gaining confidence in our bullpen...(shudders)....I like that Dempster got a couple weeks off to rest....hopefully he'll be fresh in the 2nd half. Marmol has been outstanding....Howrey, Wuertz, Ohmen, Petrick have all been solid to good....If we can shorten games in the 2nd half to 6 innings for our starters thats where really big streaks start.....

 

 

(also...a very small part of me still has visions of Kerry Wood riding in on a white hospital gurney and being a very effective late 2nd half set up man....Wood, Marmol, Dempster....the other guys can pitch the 6th, and matchups....).... :fingerscrossed:

 

Hoping for Kerry maybe taking the optimism a touch too far. However, I think that this team is going to make some good things happen this second half.

 

I knew I should have put money on the Cubs to at least be playing in October once I found out in February that my girlfriend was pregnant and due in October. So of course they would be playing in October when I cannot be there.

[Soul]

I agree the Cards look like they will get stronger with the return of a couple players. They've not been all that bad lately even without them.

 

Thats why I've been so conflicted about them beating the D-backs lately....

I'd sure love to see them 7-10 games back and selling at the trade deadline.

 

One good thing is...their bullpen is overworked (3rd most relief innings this year in the NL) Factoring that, with the consideration that 1/2 of their starting staff is converted relievers and you have to expect that they'll have a lot of tired arms in the 2nd half (and they've also played a much easier schedule than us so far(far fewer games against teams with winning records)...so by the numbers, they should have a tougher 2nd half....I just keep remembering that they are the cards...and I won't feel good till they are dead.

 

It would be just like the Cards to continue playing better for the rest of the season in spite of the obvious problems they have. St. Louis, the city of magic pixie dust.

[kujay]

I just keep remembering that they are the cards...and I won't feel good till they are dead.

 

I want them dead and buried before the deadline. But they have reason for optimism right now with Carp coming back soon.

 

But if the Cubs and Brewers come out strong after the break and the Cards continue to muddle a few games below .500, I don't think we'll see any big deadline moves from Jocketty. They may not sell everyone off (Rolen?), but you won't see them make a splash.

[Hoosiercubbie]

I'm definitely optimistic at this point for both the division and the wild card because of the second half schedule.

 

Even with the optimism there's still a small part of me (well not that small) that feels the Cubs are just going to end up letting me down.

 

Who knows what will happen but a glance at the schedules for the Cubs, Brewers, and Cards would seem to indicate that both the Cubs and Brewers have an easier second half schedule than the Cards. I've probably missed a game or two somewhere but it appears as if the Cubs have 58 games against teams with a sub .500 record and 20 against teams with a plus .500 while the Brewers are something like 52 -.500 and

24 +500, with the Cards at 38 -.500 and 41 +.500.

[killthegoat06]

Come on Cards, time to get swept by San Fran.

[moorecg]

I just keep remembering that they are the cards...and I won't feel good till they are dead.

 

I want them dead and buried before the deadline. But they have reason for optimism right now with Carp coming back soon.

 

But if the Cubs and Brewers come out strong after the break and the Cards continue to muddle a few games below .500, I don't think we'll see any big deadline moves from Jocketty. They may not sell everyone off (Rolen?), but you won't see them make a splash.

 

I completely agree...I'd like to see them lose a couple more series in a row...and Jockety start selling off pieces...Rolen/Edmonds...some of their remaining bullpen arms...The team is not good right now...but if Carp and Mulder come back at 80-90% of their former selves, their starting staff becomes very serviceable...and they've still got that pujols guy.

[CubColtPacer]

I just keep remembering that they are the cards...and I won't feel good till they are dead.

 

I want them dead and buried before the deadline. But they have reason for optimism right now with Carp coming back soon.

 

But if the Cubs and Brewers come out strong after the break and the Cards continue to muddle a few games below .500, I don't think we'll see any big deadline moves from Jocketty. They may not sell everyone off (Rolen?), but you won't see them make a splash.

 

I completely agree...I'd like to see them lose a couple more series in a row...and Jockety start selling off pieces...Rolen/Edmonds...some of their remaining bullpen arms...The team is not good right now...but if Carp and Mulder come back at 80-90% of their former selves, their starting staff becomes very serviceable...and they've still got that pujols guy.

 

I wouldn't worry about Mulder-he had another set-back a week or so ago, and is nowhere close to going on a rehab assignment. Probably the best case scenario right now for him is to return in mid-August, and with how many delays and setbacks he has had already that seems very unlikely.

[Soul]

Come on Cards, time to get swept by San Fran.

 

I can't decide if I dislike the Cards more for being the Cards, or SF more because they sold their soul to ye olde grande cheater for $15 million to have him commit a travesty against baseball in their park.

[nilodnayr]

I was in full believe mode in 2004. Thats was the most talented roster top to bottom i have seen as long as I've followed baseball (maybe skewed a bit by my blue tinted goggles).

 

Definitely one of the most (if not for sure the most) talented Cubs teams I've seen.

 

That team should have ripped through the league after the trade deadline

 

And the most depressing thing looking back at the end of '04 is the starting pitching. Zambrano and Prior were unhitable. Rusch was even pitching out of his mind... but that bullpen :(

 

I remember listening to a game against the Reds from September '04. Prior was flirting with 20K for the first half, kind of lost steam with the K's near the end but ended up with 16 or 18. Gave up a solo home run somewhere in the later innings and left after 9IP with a ND, and of course the Cubs lost it in extras.

 

EDIT - Just looked it up, it was his last start of the year, sept. 30th, so I think the season was all but officially dead at that point.

 

9.0IP, 3H, 1R, 1ER, 1HR, 1BB, 16K

Sosa had a solo HR

Kearns had the HR against Prior

Javier #$%^&^ Valentin doubled in the winning run.... Adam Dunn (who set the major league strikeout record for season that day)

 

And a Rusch start where the only offensive support he got was a solo home run... that he hit.

 

I was at that game, on a rooftop with work. I had just started there in June. You are right, the season was all but over, but being a cubs fan, there was still a glimmer of hope. That was the final nail in the coffin. Druing the game I ended up drinking 15 labatts eating absolutely nothing , blacking out just after the game, proceeding to Barleycorn to drink up a storm in mourning, throwing up on my practice leader, and things go worse from there...

[moorecg]

We are currently tied for 2nd (in the loss column) for the WC...now that means nothing...but damn...we've got to be buyers at the deadline right? If we could improve this team...with just one big/kinda big/halfway decent bat...and maybe a relief arm...we just might have something.

[IWU_CUBS_FAN]

if the cubs win that prior game in 2004 then they would have been tied going into the final weekend series....and would have been a .5 game up if they won the rusch game...but that damn bullpen blew it.

 

but yea i def see the same thing goin on in teh division this year as 2001...i just hope it plays to form

 

also, i hear mulder is throwing bullpen sessions now but only fastballs, so i imagine he is gonna be a lot longer...but i would like them to be 7 games behind the cubs by the deadline to be 60% confident they can't catch either team

[badger1679666666]

We are currently tied for 2nd (in the loss column) for the WC...now that means nothing...but damn...we've got to be buyers at the deadline right? If we could improve this team...with just one big/kinda big/halfway decent bat...and maybe a relief arm...we just might have something.

 

big bat ... YES

centerfield ... YES

catcher ... YES

relief? always nice, but not our pressing concern. Especially when Demp comes back and IF (yes insert LAME ASS Woody joke here) Woody can pitch out of the pen, our relief concerns aren't anywhere near our biggest problem.