Barrett's Cub Days Could Be Numbered...

[BigbadB]

Thorman is probably better than he's played so far this year. However, the Braves really can't wait much longer on him to find his stroke.

 

I think their answer is in house. They could move Chipper to 1st and let Escobar play 3rd. Of course, Chipper would have to approve the move, but he's lost some steps at 3rd and he's an injury away from some serious DL time.

 

I don't think the Howry and Hoffpaur offer is very realistic. I like Hoff, but I agree that he's quite possibly not an upgrade over Thorman. It would be a bad gamble on Atlanta's part to trade a top prospect for a guy who may or may not be any better than Thorman.

[sunnydoo]

Not just getting Kendall as a replacement catcher after we use Barrett and something else to trade for a position we actually need help at... but actually trying to sell him as a straight upgrade over Barrett.

 

Still not getting it, so i will recap it for ya one more time.

 

We trade Jones to the A's for Kendall, clearing 5.6M next year in cap room and fixing the disfunctionality of our OF. We then flip Barrett for a prospect over to the AL. Barrett is probably leaving anyway, so might as well get something for him.

 

The difference between Barrett and Kendall at the moment is 1 WS. We gain 5.6M next year to use either on the FA market or to re-sign Z, v 2.0. Because remember, we may or may not have a 100M payroll depending on the new ownership, so we may need to conserve some cash.

 

Jones is the 6th highest paid player on the Cubs atm and is a waste of talent and money. He is an albatross and his deal is a boondoggle (link for Raisin b/c he obviously gets confused when i use big words http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/boondoggle).

[jersey cubs fan]

Not just getting Kendall as a replacement catcher after we use Barrett and something else to trade for a position we actually need help at... but actually trying to sell him as a straight upgrade over Barrett.

 

Still not getting it, so i will recap it for ya one more time.

 

We trade Jones to the A's for Kendall, clearing 5.6M next year in cap room and fixing the disfunctionality of our OF. We then flip Barrett for a prospect over to the AL. Barrett is probably leaving anyway, so might as well get something for him.

 

The difference between Barrett and Kendall at the moment is 1 WS. We gain 5.6M next year to use either on the FA market or to re-sign Z, v 2.0. Because remember, we may or may not have a 100M payroll depending on the new ownership, so we may need to conserve some cash.

 

Jones is the 6th highest paid player on the Cubs atm and is a waste of talent and money. He is an albatross and his deal is a boondoggle (link for Raisin b/c he obviously gets confused when i use big words http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/boondoggle).

 

Then who is the catcher?

[Sarcastic]

Not just getting Kendall as a replacement catcher after we use Barrett and something else to trade for a position we actually need help at... but actually trying to sell him as a straight upgrade over Barrett.

 

Still not getting it, so i will recap it for ya one more time.

 

We trade Jones to the A's for Kendall, clearing 5.6M next year in cap room and fixing the disfunctionality of our OF. We then flip Barrett for a prospect over to the AL. Barrett is probably leaving anyway, so might as well get something for him.

 

The difference between Barrett and Kendall at the moment is 1 WS. We gain 5.6M next year to use either on the FA market or to re-sign Z, v 2.0. Because remember, we may or may not have a 100M payroll depending on the new ownership, so we may need to conserve some cash.

 

Jones is the 6th highest paid player on the Cubs atm and is a waste of talent and money. He is an albatross and his deal is a boondoggle (link for Raisin b/c he obviously gets confused when i use big words http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/boondoggle).

 

Then who is the catcher?

 

That'd be Kendall.

[jersey cubs fan]

Not just getting Kendall as a replacement catcher after we use Barrett and something else to trade for a position we actually need help at... but actually trying to sell him as a straight upgrade over Barrett.

 

Still not getting it, so i will recap it for ya one more time.

 

We trade Jones to the A's for Kendall, clearing 5.6M next year in cap room and fixing the disfunctionality of our OF. We then flip Barrett for a prospect over to the AL. Barrett is probably leaving anyway, so might as well get something for him.

 

The difference between Barrett and Kendall at the moment is 1 WS. We gain 5.6M next year to use either on the FA market or to re-sign Z, v 2.0. Because remember, we may or may not have a 100M payroll depending on the new ownership, so we may need to conserve some cash.

 

Jones is the 6th highest paid player on the Cubs atm and is a waste of talent and money. He is an albatross and his deal is a boondoggle (link for Raisin b/c he obviously gets confused when i use big words http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/boondoggle).

 

Then who is the catcher?

 

That'd be Kendall.

 

In 2008.

[CubinNY]

Not just getting Kendall as a replacement catcher after we use Barrett and something else to trade for a position we actually need help at... but actually trying to sell him as a straight upgrade over Barrett.

 

Still not getting it, so i will recap it for ya one more time.

 

We trade Jones to the A's for Kendall, clearing 5.6M next year in cap room and fixing the disfunctionality of our OF. We then flip Barrett for a prospect over to the AL. Barrett is probably leaving anyway, so might as well get something for him.

 

The difference between Barrett and Kendall at the moment is 1 WS. We gain 5.6M next year to use either on the FA market or to re-sign Z, v 2.0. Because remember, we may or may not have a 100M payroll depending on the new ownership, so we may need to conserve some cash.

 

Jones is the 6th highest paid player on the Cubs atm and is a waste of talent and money. He is an albatross and his deal is a boondoggle (link for Raisin b/c he obviously gets confused when i use big words http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/boondoggle).

 

Then who is the catcher?

Who's on 1st and I didn't know there was a cap in baseball (except the ones worn tilted slightly to the right or left depending on your affiliation). This thread is getting good.

[UBlink]

Not just getting Kendall as a replacement catcher after we use Barrett and something else to trade for a position we actually need help at... but actually trying to sell him as a straight upgrade over Barrett.

 

Still not getting it, so i will recap it for ya one more time.

 

We trade Jones to the A's for Kendall, clearing 5.6M next year in cap room and fixing the disfunctionality of our OF. We then flip Barrett for a prospect over to the AL. Barrett is probably leaving anyway, so might as well get something for him.

 

The difference between Barrett and Kendall at the moment is 1 WS. We gain 5.6M next year to use either on the FA market or to re-sign Z, v 2.0. Because remember, we may or may not have a 100M payroll depending on the new ownership, so we may need to conserve some cash.

 

Jones is the 6th highest paid player on the Cubs atm and is a waste of talent and money. He is an albatross and his deal is a boondoggle (link for Raisin b/c he obviously gets confused when i use big words http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/boondoggle).

 

Then who is the catcher?

 

That'd be Kendall.

 

In 2008.

 

Goony must actually be trying to work in between posting.

[Soriano12]

I didn't know there was a cap in baseball

 

He will play RF

[sunnydoo]

Who's on 1st and I didn't know there was a cap in baseball (except the ones worn tilted slightly to the right or left depending on your affiliation). This thread is getting good.

 

lol, been spending too much time looking at the Eagles situation and mixing my metaphors. :wink:

 

clearing 5.6M next year in payroll space and fixing the disfunctionality of our OF

 

Fixed.

 

Cap Anson was our 1b/3b for a while also, so there is a Cap in baseball.

[Sarcastic]

Not just getting Kendall as a replacement catcher after we use Barrett and something else to trade for a position we actually need help at... but actually trying to sell him as a straight upgrade over Barrett.

 

Still not getting it, so i will recap it for ya one more time.

 

We trade Jones to the A's for Kendall, clearing 5.6M next year in cap room and fixing the disfunctionality of our OF. We then flip Barrett for a prospect over to the AL. Barrett is probably leaving anyway, so might as well get something for him.

 

The difference between Barrett and Kendall at the moment is 1 WS. We gain 5.6M next year to use either on the FA market or to re-sign Z, v 2.0. Because remember, we may or may not have a 100M payroll depending on the new ownership, so we may need to conserve some cash.

 

Jones is the 6th highest paid player on the Cubs atm and is a waste of talent and money. He is an albatross and his deal is a boondoggle (link for Raisin b/c he obviously gets confused when i use big words http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/boondoggle).

 

Then who is the catcher?

 

That'd be Kendall.

 

In 2008.

 

Koyie Hill? :lol:

[Soriano12]

sunnydoo is my favorite poster, I think.

[sunnydoo]

Then who is the catcher in 2008?

 

C FA market is horrific this year. I think the big names are all 36+: LoDuca, Posada, and Pudge. Kendall and Barrett will both be added to that mix as well as a few other 2nd and 3rd tier FA catchers like Melheuse, Ross, etc.

 

Think we would have to go out and find us a prospect or use Hill/Soto/Blanco if Henry can return. Blanco and Soto would be under our control, but i have not looked at the details on Hill's deal.

[Sarcastic]

C FA market is horrific this year. I think the big names are all 36+: LoDuca, Posada, and Pudge. Kendall and Barrett will both be added to that mix as well as a few other 2nd and 3rd tier FA catchers like Melheuse, Ross, etc.

 

Think we would have to go out and find us a prospect or use Hill/Soto/Blanco if Henry can return. Blanco and Soto would be under our control, but i have not looked at the details on Hill's deal.

 

So basically, we'd sacrifice C position for the forseeable future to get whatever Barrett in a down year with a few months left on his contract would get us. Oh, and 5.6 million next year. None of the options we'd have for catcher next year would be appealing at all.

 

By the way, I didn't say that quote in your post, that was goony.

[jersey cubs fan]

Then who is the catcher in 2008?

 

C FA market is horrific this year. I think the big names are all 36+: LoDuca, Posada, and Pudge. Kendall and Barrett will both be added to that mix as well as a few other 2nd and 3rd tier FA catchers like Melheuse, Ross, etc.

 

Think we would have to go out and find us a prospect or use Hill/Soto/Blanco if Henry can return. Blanco and Soto would be under our control, but i have not looked at the details on Hill's deal.

 

So you want to trade Kendall for Jones straight up, with the Cubs taking back the portion of Kendall's contract the A's still owe him this year ~half of $7.5m. Then trade Barrett for a prospect.

 

This is a huge downgrade in 2007 catcher position, but leaves the Cubs without Jones, Barrett or Kendall on the books for next year, and cleans up OF a little by making Floyd the regular until Murton comes up and splits his time.

 

Benefits to 2007 are upgrade in catcher defense, no more Jones, save a little money.

Costs to 2007 are replacing a competent bat with an atrocious one in Kendall.

 

Benefits to 2008 are no more Jones, whatever prospect you get for Barrett.

Costs to 2008 are inapplicable, as long as you aren't dumb enough to try and resign Kendall.

 

I'm not sure the A's would want Jones for Kendall, it saves them a little 2007 money but costs them in the longterm. I think replacing Barrett's bat with another black hole in Kendall seriously damages the 2007 lineup and any hope for improvement, and I don't think they can get much of a prospect for Barrett on his own.

 

In 2008 you have to go out and find yourself a stud SS or RF in order to make up for fact that you are going to get nothing from the C position.

[sunnydoo]

I'm not sure the A's would want Jones for Kendall, it saves them a little 2007 money but costs them in the longterm. I think replacing Barrett's bat with another black hole in Kendall seriously damages the 2007 lineup and any hope for improvement, and I don't think they can get much of a prospect for Barrett on his own.

 

In 2008 you have to go out and find yourself a stud SS or RF in order to make up for fact that you are going to get nothing from the C position.

 

Exactly, except a couple notes. As for the A's they have Piazza coming back and have said they want him playing C, b/c of Cust. He has extended his rehab to accomodate them. Also they want to get their kid Suzuki some playing time to see if he can be the catcher of the future for them. And it does give the As 4M in space this year that Billy can play with at the wire.

 

As i said, the difference between Kendall and Barrett is 1 WS. Both are having an awful year at the plate. Kendall now is probably avg to slightly below avg defensively, whereas Barrett is a black hole of disgrace upon defense. Their Marcel #s are similar, but Barrett has a higher projected OPS. Both are slightly better in the 2nd half typically offensively. And Kendall is stuck in a pitchers park atm, whereas Barrett is in a hitters park, so their may be some kick in the #s there also.

 

As for 2008, i am convinced that Ronny needs another shot at SS. He is hitting 366 at Iowa atm. I would also like to see Murton getting another shot in RF, but would not be opposed to the Cubs hitting the FA market if they could, to pick up another power hitter for RF. Depending on what we could get for Barrett, I would like to see the Cubs go out and get a prospective C. But i think there are places where you definitely need defense and intangibles at the cost of offense and C is one of those spots.

[jersey cubs fan]

As i said, the difference between Kendall and Barrett is 1 WS. Both are having an awful year at the plate.

 

Barrett and Kendall are having very different years at the plate. The difference in OPS+ is about 45 points. Barrett is having a disappointing season, but his numbers are on the upswing and he's like to finish the year at least around average, if not solid. Kendall is as big a black hole as the Cubs have had playing regularly in several years.

[SouthSideRyan]

I thought the catcher in '08 was Saltalamacchia.

[abuck1220]

the salary cap is a myth.

 

hey, first time this thread that someone has used that word correctly!

[Amazing_Grace]

Then who is the catcher in 2008?

 

C FA market is horrific this year. I think the big names are all 36+: LoDuca, Posada, and Pudge. Kendall and Barrett will both be added to that mix as well as a few other 2nd and 3rd tier FA catchers like Melheuse, Ross, etc.

 

Think we would have to go out and find us a prospect or use Hill/Soto/Blanco if Henry can return. Blanco and Soto would be under our control, but i have not looked at the details on Hill's deal.

 

So you want to trade Kendall for Jones straight up, with the Cubs taking back the portion of Kendall's contract the A's still owe him this year ~half of $7.5m. Then trade Barrett for a prospect.

 

This is a huge downgrade in 2007 catcher position, but leaves the Cubs without Jones, Barrett or Kendall on the books for next year, and cleans up OF a little by making Floyd the regular until Murton comes up and splits his time.

 

Benefits to 2007 are upgrade in catcher defense, no more Jones, save a little money.

Costs to 2007 are replacing a competent bat with an atrocious one in Kendall.

 

Benefits to 2008 are no more Jones, whatever prospect you get for Barrett.

Costs to 2008 are inapplicable, as long as you aren't dumb enough to try and resign Kendall.

 

I'm not sure the A's would want Jones for Kendall, it saves them a little 2007 money but costs them in the longterm. I think replacing Barrett's bat with another black hole in Kendall seriously damages the 2007 lineup and any hope for improvement, and I don't think they can get much of a prospect for Barrett on his own.

 

In 2008 you have to go out and find yourself a stud SS or RF in order to make up for fact that you are going to get nothing from the C position.

 

It's almost a foregone conclusion in my mind that Barrett will be gone by next season at this point. Even if the conflicts with his manager and pitching staff are an isolated incident, there remains the fact that the Cubs aren't likely going to have the money to re-up Barrett assuming they try to re-sign Z. Even if they did, there are probably better ways to spend it. If trading for Jason Kendall gets Jones out of Chicago, it's well worth considering. Jones already seems like a malcontent to me, and if Floyd continues to do well and eat up his PT, he's likely to get worse.

 

If the A's could be enticed to take all Jones's contract, it would be worth giving up a pretty good prospect in the deal. If we got something comparable to the prospect we gave up by dealing Barrett, then it's a win-win. Kendall is having a down year just like Barrett is. His numbers this season have been way down from his past several seasons. It could be very rapid decline, or it could be an aberration. It's not as if we'd be committing multiple years to the guy.

 

I'm not sure we'd get "nothing" out of the catcher position next year. Soto's minor league numbers look solid and he's only 24. His OPS is over .900 so far at Iowa this year, and his numbers have trended upwards for three years now. He also looks to have decent plate discipline for a young player, with an IsoD consistently around .075 his last two seasons at Iowa. His SLG and IsoP have gone up a lot this season and have been trending upward since 05 in Iowa. Power often doesn't come for players until they get a bit older. He probably doesn't have as high a ceiling as Pie, but he might end up comparable to what Barrett is now.

 

People had better get used to the idea that 2008 is going to be a rebuilding year. There is no way the Cubs will go out and pursue major free agents this offseason with the ownership change. They'll spend most of the offseason just transitioning to the new ownership and very likely new GM and President. The most they'll do is re-sign Zambrano. We may as well give Soto a try next year to see what we have so we have an idea what we need to bring in from outside the organization to make a run in 09.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Please, no Kendall. What little skills he had have quickly diminished. I'd rather go with Soto and Blanco in 2008 than to be saddled with Kendall.

 

I agree that Barrett is likely gone after the season. But if the choice is Barrett or Kendall, I'll take Barrett every day of the week and twice on Sundays and holidays.

[RynoRules]

Please, no Kendall. What little skills he had have quickly diminished. I'd rather go with Soto and Blanco in 2008 than to be saddled with Kendall.

 

I agree that Barrett is likely gone after the season. But if the choice is Barrett or Kendall, I'll take Barrett every day of the week and twice on Sundays and holidays.

[stuy119]

Apparently, Barrett's gone. Edited June 20, 2007 by stuy119

[jmajew]

According to ESPN Barrett traded to Padres...but still don't know for what.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2910079

 

 

Edit: Just beat