According to Buster Olney, Lou has lost the team already

[jersey cubs fan]

Never in my life have I see a franchise and it's fans attribute the manager with having so much power on the W and L record. You would think the manager has a 30-40 game effect on a season by listening to Cub fans.

 

 

are you familiar with a team called the Yankees?

 

 

You got me there. Yankee fans would run Bobby Cox out of town after 3 months. Cubs fans would at least give him 4 or 5.

 

Most Cubs fans took forever to turn on Dusty Baker.

[jmajew]

The guys who seem to be making the majority of the "mistakes" are the ones who seem to be fighting for playing time. Maybe if we didn't have an over abundace of RFs and MIFs who want playing time, and thus aren't trying to do too much, Lou would be able to have a manageable team.

[Guest]

i don't care if the manager is laid back like dusty, or if the manager is fiery like lou. all i care about is if the manager is competent, and neither of these 2 clowns are.

 

Yes, this.

[Elrhino]

Never in my life have I see a franchise and it's fans attribute the manager with having so much power on the W and L record. You would think the manager has a 30-40 game effect on a season by listening to Cub fans.

 

 

are you familiar with a team called the Yankees?

 

 

You got me there. Yankee fans would run Bobby Cox out of town after 3 months. Cubs fans would at least give him 4 or 5.

 

Most Cubs fans took forever to turn on Dusty Baker.

 

 

Only when contrasted against NSBB, who wanted him fired the day after he was hired. But any manager who takes his team within 6 outs of the World Series is going to be alloted several more yards of cord on his leash, especially if that's the closest the franchise has gotten to a World Series appearance in over 5 decades.

[MustangMike]

No one is saying the players don't shoulder most of the blame. They do. Where Lou comes in is that it's on him to find a way to get the most out of individual players. If the team isn't responding to his ways, he needs to find a way to get them to respond.

 

I agree, Lou has to find a way. But the buzz is the players don't like the way he does it. I guess he can try to adapt, but I thought lou was much more mellow than advertised until he finally went nuts. Also, i think this keeps going back to the point of saying "the manager" needs to find a way, why don't the players find a way?

[Elrhino]

When Texas hired Ron Washington, all you heard around the franchise was how Ron Washington was a player's coach, and he was such a breath of fresh air after the stifling atmosphere created by Buck Showalter. All these Rangers players who were unhappy with Showalter's gruff, heavy handed ways were now going to blossom.

 

Result? The Rangers currently have the worst record in baseball.

 

The manager really has very little influence on W and L's, unless he's an outlier genius like Bobby Cox. With that said I tend to lean towards the theory that if your players don't like hard coaching you need harder players, not a softer coach.

[YearofDaCubs]

The guys who seem to be making the majority of the "mistakes" are the ones who seem to be fighting for playing time. Maybe if we didn't have an over abundace of RFs and MIFs who want playing time, and thus aren't trying to do too much, Lou would be able to have a manageable team.

I wouldn't say an abundance of RFer's, mostly LFers haha.

[USSoccer]

No one is saying the players don't shoulder most of the blame. They do. Where Lou comes in is that it's on him to find a way to get the most out of individual players. If the team isn't responding to his ways, he needs to find a way to get them to respond.

 

I agree, Lou has to find a way. But the buzz is the players don't like the way he does it. I guess he can try to adapt, but I thought lou was much more mellow than advertised until he finally went nuts. Also, i think this keeps going back to the point of saying "the manager" needs to find a way, why don't the players find a way?

 

it's easier for 1 guy who's supposed to be a leader to adapt than it is for 25 guys to adapt.

[ter]

 

The manager really has very little influence on W and L's, unless he's an outlier genius like Bobby Cox. With that said I tend to lean towards the theory that if your players don't like hard coaching you need harder players, not a softer coach.

 

 

Not too surprising to find there are quite a few Brave fans that want Cox replaced. Most of the reasoning is, even though they win their division just about every year, their play-off performance is terrible.

 

What Cub fans wouldn't give to have the Braves' record....Just can't please everyone.

 

I agree about mental toughness....If there are some Cub players that don't like Lou's approach then it is time for them to "move on" and bring in players that are mentally tough and won't feel hurt when they are criticized for making dumb mistakes.

[RynoRules]

I agree with Vance. Olney may have something here. I defended Lou early on, but I think some of his most recent histrionics are over the top. That said, if this is really getting to the players so much that they are giving up or driven to distraction, they need to take a real good look in the mirror.

[cubfan1955]

No one is saying the players don't shoulder most of the blame. They do. Where Lou comes in is that it's on him to find a way to get the most out of individual players. If the team isn't responding to his ways, he needs to find a way to get them to respond.

 

I agree, Lou has to find a way. But the buzz is the players don't like the way he does it. I guess he can try to adapt, but I thought lou was much more mellow than advertised until he finally went nuts. Also, i think this keeps going back to the point of saying "the manager" needs to find a way, why don't the players find a way?

 

it's easier for 1 guy who's supposed to be a leader to adapt than it is for 25 guys to adapt.

I think you are taking the word of Olney as the gospel truth. I think it's far from fact that any of the players are unhappy with Lou, let alone 25 of them.

[woodchip2153]

SI's take

[NomarSammy]

SI's take

 

I honestly feel like the national media guys that are killing Lou for his critism of players have failed to pay close enough attention to this teams' play. If it was knit-picking that would be one thing, but these are unexcusable little league mistakes that his boys have been making. There is a big difference!

[abuck1220]

SI's take

 

that's a really stupid article.

 

the writer criticizes lou for saying this...

 

"It's about time some of them start playing like major leaguers. Or get someone else in here who can catch the damn ball and run the bases properly."

 

and then says this...

 

The Cubs have a lot of good players. The problem is, they're playing like garbage.

 

...which is exactly what lou was saying.

[jersey cubs fan]

SI's take

 

that's a really stupid article.

 

the writer criticizes lou for saying this...

 

"It's about time some of them start playing like major leaguers. Or get someone else in here who can catch the damn ball and run the bases properly."

 

and then says this...

 

The Cubs have a lot of good players. The problem is, they're playing like garbage.

 

...which is exactly what lou was saying.

 

The writers point is that it's wrong to complain like that out loud. If the story is that he's losing the players, it doesn't matter if what he says is accurate, what matters is how the players are responding. If plublicly ridiculing the players were working, then there would be no complaint.

[gflore34]

SI's take

 

Speaking of Lou's suspension, there's something I don't understand: it's wrong for a Manager or Player to touch an Umpire but, it's OK for an Umpire to make contact with a Manager or Player? Such as the Umpire who was pushing Lou away from Wagner?

Edited June 4, 2007 by gflore34

[cubfan1955]

Maybe keeping it all private and inside the club house wasn't working so he went public.

[jersey cubs fan]

SI's take

 

Speaking of Lou's suspension, there's something I don't understand: it's wrong for a Manager or Player to touch an Umpire but, it's OK for an Umpire to make contact with a Manager or Player? Such as the Umpire who was pushing Lou away from Wagner?

 

That would depend on who initiated contact. I think a lot of umps instigate conflict with the players and managers. But if Lou made contact first, then he's fair game for an ump to physically touch and try to push away.

 

I've yet to see where Lou made any physical contact with the ump, other than the picture where it looks like their belly buttons are rubbing together.

[YearofDaCubs]

Take it for what's it's worth. I'm listening to the Score right now and according to their "sources" The player only meeting they had was talking about Lou and how none of the players like him. The only guy sticking up for Lou was Lee. Also, the meeting they had with Hendry, Lou, and president was pretty much Lou firing at Hendry regarding the current roster.

[Rusch33]

Take it for what's it's worth. I'm listening to the Score right now and according to their "sources" The player only meeting they had was talking about Lou and how none of the players like him. The only guy sticking up for Lou was Lee. Also, the meeting they had with Hendry, Lou, and president was pretty much Lou firing at Hendry regarding the current roster.

 

The Cubs are babies if true.

 

Nut up, and start playing baseball.

[Tracer Bullet]

Take it for what's it's worth. I'm listening to the Score right now and according to their "sources" The player only meeting they had was talking about Lou and how none of the players like him. The only guy sticking up for Lou was Lee. Also, the meeting they had with Hendry, Lou, and president was pretty much Lou firing at Hendry regarding the current roster.

 

The Cubs are babies if true.

 

Nut up, and start playing baseball.

 

If there's a dumber phrase than "nut up" I have yet to hear it. Is there any report that the Cubs players are actually complaining b/c Lou's mean or too hard on them or is that just what some here are assuming? Maybe the players just think Lou's an incompetent manager and that's frustrating them. Being frustrated with incompetent leadership is human nature. Doesn't make you baby.

 

If you think your leader is doing a bad job of leading, you're supposed to sit quietly and smile while he drives you off the cliff?

[Tracer Bullet]

i don't care if the manager is laid back like dusty, or if the manager is fiery like lou. all i care about is if the manager is competent, and neither of these 2 clowns are.

 

Yes, this.

 

I'm jumping on this bus as well.

[gflore34]

Take it for what's it's worth. I'm listening to the Score right now and according to their "sources" The player only meeting they had was talking about Lou and how none of the players like him. The only guy sticking up for Lou was Lee. Also, the meeting they had with Hendry, Lou, and president was pretty much Lou firing at Hendry regarding the current roster.

 

The Cubs are babies if true.

 

Nut up, and start playing baseball.

 

Exactly, they can't handle the Manager letting them know they're not doing their jobs well and holding them to higher standard/accountable? Come, on...

[Rusch33]

Take it for what's it's worth. I'm listening to the Score right now and according to their "sources" The player only meeting they had was talking about Lou and how none of the players like him. The only guy sticking up for Lou was Lee. Also, the meeting they had with Hendry, Lou, and president was pretty much Lou firing at Hendry regarding the current roster.

 

The Cubs are babies if true.

 

Nut up, and start playing baseball.

 

If there's a dumber phrase than "nut up" I have yet to hear it. Is there any report that the Cubs players are actually complaining b/c Lou's mean or too hard on them or is that just what some here are assuming? Maybe the players just think Lou's an incompetent manager and that's frustrating them. Being frustrated with incompetent leadership is human nature. Doesn't make you baby.

 

If you think your leader is doing a bad job of leading, you're supposed to sit quietly and smile while he drives you off the cliff?

 

Well maybe if these guys can pull their heads out, and start playing fundamentally baseball.. maybe Lou will let off.

 

Come on, this has been pathetic lastly. Can't run bases. Can't throw the ball to the cutoff guy. Can't stop a passed ball. Can't throw the ball to third base. Can't catch a routine fly ball.

 

This is the majors, not high school baseball.

[Elrhino]

Being frustrated with incompetent leadership is human nature. Doesn't make you baby.

 

The problem with blaming "incompetent leadership" is that its often times an excuse by nonproductive employees to deflect criticism from their own incompetence.

 

For me, it's pretty alarming that we have players who are actually shocked that the manager jumps their collective behinds when they play stupid baseball, and are outraged when there are consquences and demotions to be paid for habitually playing stupid baseball. Its a sad statement on how we're grooming players in our minor league system.

Edited June 4, 2007 by Elrhino