Murton on the block?!

[FergieJ31]

Murton for Rivera and Arod

 

Obviously lopsided. Make 'em throw in Hughes if they want the Big Murt.

[Guest]

Why are you guys shocked?

 

Who is shocked?

 

Well, the "!?" at the end of the thread title made me think mdwilla was surprised.

 

Good point. I've feared Murton has been on the block for a while, and not because the Cubs can't live without him, but because the Cubs motivation for trading Murton, and target for using him as bait, was most likely going to be all wrong.

 

If you put him in a package for Miguel Cabrera, I'd pack his bags and fly the plane. If you give him spotty playing time and his numbers suffer, then try and "shore up the bullpen" by trading him like some extra piece, well, that's just so Cubs like.

 

Yes, this.

 

I'm not a fan of trading away cost-effective good (not great, Murton obviously isn't a superstar) players. Especially for another bullpen arm.

[Tracer Bullet]

Why are you guys shocked?

 

Who is shocked?

 

Well, the "!?" at the end of the thread title made me think mdwilla was surprised.

 

Good point. I've feared Murton has been on the block for a while, and not because the Cubs can't live without him, but because the Cubs motivation for trading Murton, and target for using him as bait, was most likely going to be all wrong.

 

If you put him in a package for Miguel Cabrera, I'd pack his bags and fly the plane. If you give him spotty playing time and his numbers suffer, then try and "shore up the bullpen" by trading him like some extra piece, well, that's just so Cubs like.

 

Exactly. He's not the kind of player you trade for bullpen help. He's a piece to be used in a bigger deal, if you're not going to keep him.

 

That's exactly right. You don't trade him for an Eyre or the equivalent. You use him (and maybe him plus a prospect) to substantially improve the team. He's ideal for many small market teams (he's young, cheap, under control for years, and a solid producer). If you're not going to play him, combine him with one or two of our several young pitching prospects and ship him to a team that has a relatively young star that's about to become too expensive for them.

[Tracer Bullet]

Murton for Rivera and Arod

 

Obviously lopsided. Make 'em throw in Hughes if they want the Big Murt.

 

If they'll throw in Hughes, I'd probably add Izturis.

[Amazing_Grace]

This is just sad. Sad sad sad sad sad....

 

The consequences of Jim Hendry's incompetence will long outlast his term of employment with the Cubs organization.

[RichHillIsABeast]

I don't know why anyone is surprised by this move. It was inevitable the moment Soriano moved to LF.

 

I haven't heard anything that suggests Murton isn't loved by the org, but when your new big money FA takes his position, there's not a whole lot you can do. Murton was tried out in RF and he sucked.

 

Murton's a very valuable player. We'd better be talking Scott Linebrink, not some scrub.

[NomarSammy]

Ummm, ladies and gentlemen--it was a little blurb in a non-chicago article. Does anyone think we might be overreacting just a bit--I dont want to trade Murton either, but to be fair for all we know neither does Jim Hendry. Let's at least wait until he is traded before we start to crucify him!

[wilk]

In any real and sane environment, I'm probably the biggest Murton fan in the group... but boy this board is often in another world in its perception of certain players. People are sitting here saying he's cheap since he gives you a .360 OBP and .800 OPS. Yeah well those aren't his numbers. If they were then the Cubs wouldn't have consideration of moving him. I doubt he's traded anyway but that's beside the point... It's only OK to trade the relatively powerless leftfielder who's been forced to (and very much struggling with) rightfield if you trade him for Miguel Cabrera -- otherwise it makes no sense since we've never seen a 60 point IsoD before! ...!

[CubinNY]

I People are sitting here saying he's cheap since he gives you a .360 OBP and .800 OPS. Yeah well those aren't his numbers. If they were ...!

 

They aren't his numbers becuase he doesn't get to play on a consistent basis.

 

The people running the Cubs are traditionalists. They want a Slugger in the corner outfiled spot.

 

I called this as soon as Hendry went ga-ga over Soriano. Then they went out and got Floyd. Hendry and crew are clueless.

 

It's a shame.

[baseball7897]

I would rather see Hendry trade Murton for a SP than a bullpen arm.

 

I could see Hendry trading Murton for a guy like Kiko Calero. Instead of doing that, why not try and grab Joe Blanton from the A's instead. It would obviously take more than Matt Murton to get that deal done, but it would be a good starting point in trying to get Joe Blanton.

[Soriano12]

In any real and sane environment, I'm probably the biggest Murton fan in the group... but boy this board is often in another world in its perception of certain players. People are sitting here saying he's cheap since he gives you a .360 OBP and .800 OPS. Yeah well those aren't his numbers. If they were then the Cubs wouldn't have consideration of moving him. I doubt he's traded anyway but that's beside the point... It's only OK to trade the relatively powerless leftfielder who's been forced to (and very much struggling with) rightfield if you trade him for Miguel Cabrera -- otherwise it makes no sense since we've never seen a 60 point IsoD before! ...!

 

 

Last season he had an 809 OPS and a 365 OBP when given enough playing time. There is no reason he couldn't produce those #s, even surpass them if given a chance to play on a regular basis.

[jersey cubs fan]

In any real and sane environment, I'm probably the biggest Murton fan in the group... but boy this board is often in another world in its perception of certain players. People are sitting here saying he's cheap since he gives you a .360 OBP and .800 OPS. Yeah well those aren't his numbers. If they were then the Cubs wouldn't have consideration of moving him. I doubt he's traded anyway but that's beside the point... It's only OK to trade the relatively powerless leftfielder who's been forced to (and very much struggling with) rightfield if you trade him for Miguel Cabrera -- otherwise it makes no sense since we've never seen a 60 point IsoD before! ...!

 

 

Last season he had an 809 OPS and a 365 OBP when given enough playing time. There is no reason he couldn't produce those #s, even surpass them if given a chance to play on a regular basis.

 

His minor league numbers suggested he could do that, his major league career so far backs that up. A slow start to a season with erratic playing time doesn't change that. This would be classic sell on the low if he trades Murton.

[wilk]

I People are sitting here saying he's cheap since he gives you a .360 OBP and .800 OPS. Yeah well those aren't his numbers. If they were ...!

 

They aren't his numbers becuase he doesn't get to play on a consistent basis.

 

The people running the Cubs are traditionalists. They want a Slugger in the corner outfiled spot.

 

I called this as soon as Hendry went ga-ga over Soriano. Then they went out and got Floyd. Hendry and crew are clueless.

 

It's a shame.

 

I disagree that the only thing lacking is consistent play. I think there's a little more to it than that but that's impossible to argue so we'll just leave that up to be determined. It's not quite as simple as the Cubs wanting a slugger there either. The problem is he'd have to be better in every other area -- defense, speed, discipline -- and he's just not. He's below average defensively in right field and does not have significant speed. He has good discipline at the plate but this is another thing that's always been exaggerated for him. He is not an elite walker; he doesn't even have great patience. He's just a little above average when the Cubs have been so used to players below average. A breath of fresh air, no doubt, and personally I think Murton will come around to find some power but he's out of place here now. Unless you move Soriano to rightfield and he adjusts well there, you cannot imagine any longterm future for Murton with the club without serious improvements.

 

Now if he's traded for a middle reliever - I'm pissed. But let's not treat it as if the only acceptable trade is for Miguel Cabrera because that's just nonsense.

[wilk]

Last season he had an 809 OPS and a 365 OBP when given enough playing time. There is no reason he couldn't produce those #s, even surpass them if given a chance to play on a regular basis.

 

Do you really need me to give you a gigantic list of players who had a similarly good season in their rookie or sophomore year only to flop afterwards? Once again, I'm a fan of Murton and only somewhat playing devil's advocate here, but let's be realistic. His numbers last year do not mean "there is no reason" it won't happen this year with regular play.

[jersey cubs fan]

I People are sitting here saying he's cheap since he gives you a .360 OBP and .800 OPS. Yeah well those aren't his numbers. If they were ...!

 

They aren't his numbers becuase he doesn't get to play on a consistent basis.

 

The people running the Cubs are traditionalists. They want a Slugger in the corner outfiled spot.

 

I called this as soon as Hendry went ga-ga over Soriano. Then they went out and got Floyd. Hendry and crew are clueless.

 

It's a shame.

 

I disagree that the only thing lacking is consistent play. I think there's a little more to it than that but that's impossible to argue so we'll just leave that up to be determined. It's not quite as simple as the Cubs wanting a slugger there either. The problem is he'd have to be better in every other area -- defense, speed, discipline -- and he's just not. He's below average defensively in right field and does not have significant speed. He has good discipline at the plate but this is another thing that's always been exaggerated for him. He is not an elite walker; he doesn't even have great patience. He's just a little above average when the Cubs have been so used to players below average. A breath of fresh air, no doubt, and personally I think Murton will come around to find some power but he's out of place here now. Unless you move Soriano to rightfield and he adjusts well there, you cannot imagine any longterm future for Murton with the club without serious improvements.

 

Now if he's traded for a middle reliever - I'm pissed. But let's not treat it as if the only acceptable trade is for Miguel Cabrera because that's just nonsense.

 

How convenient that you pretend it's impossible to argue. It's not impossible. Any reasonable analysis would conclude the playing time is an issue.

 

I'm not acting like anything but Cabrera is unacceptable, it's pretty much nonsense that you pretend I, or anybody else, is. I'm talking about a general theory of trading a player like him. You don't trade him for short-term bullpen help. You do trade him if you can get a really good improvement. There's no benefit to trade him if you aren't getting a better player in the end. Who that is depends on who else you include in a trade of Murton. Murton and a decent pitching prospect could get you a decent starting pitcher. Murton, Colvin and Gallagher should get you an impact position player.

[Soriano12]

Last season he had an 809 OPS and a 365 OBP when given enough playing time. There is no reason he couldn't produce those #s, even surpass them if given a chance to play on a regular basis.

 

Do you really need me to give you a gigantic list of players who had a similarly good season in their rookie or sophomore year only to flop afterwards? Once again, I'm a fan of Murton and only somewhat playing devil's advocate here, but let's be realistic. His numbers last year do not mean "there is no reason" it won't happen this year with regular play.

 

No. Because it has no relevance to this discussion. If Murton tonight was named the pernament RF, or LF(moving Sori to RF) I would pretty much guarentee he would put up an 800+ OPS by seasons end. Hell I would wager $100.

[CubinNY]

I People are sitting here saying he's cheap since he gives you a .360 OBP and .800 OPS. Yeah well those aren't his numbers. If they were ...!

 

They aren't his numbers becuase he doesn't get to play on a consistent basis.

 

The people running the Cubs are traditionalists. They want a Slugger in the corner outfiled spot.

 

I called this as soon as Hendry went ga-ga over Soriano. Then they went out and got Floyd. Hendry and crew are clueless.

 

It's a shame.

 

I disagree that the only thing lacking is consistent play. I think there's a little more to it than that but that's impossible to argue so we'll just leave that up to be determined. It's not quite as simple as the Cubs wanting a slugger there either. The problem is he'd have to be better in every other area -- defense, speed, discipline -- and he's just not. He's below average defensively in right field and does not have significant speed. He has good discipline at the plate but this is another thing that's always been exaggerated for him. He is not an elite walker; he doesn't even have great patience. He's just a little above average when the Cubs have been so used to players below average. A breath of fresh air, no doubt, and personally I think Murton will come around to find some power but he's out of place here now. Unless you move Soriano to rightfield and he adjusts well there, you cannot imagine any longterm future for Murton with the club without serious improvements.

 

Now if he's traded for a middle reliever - I'm pissed. But let's not treat it as if the only acceptable trade is for Miguel Cabrera because that's just nonsense.

 

It's sensless what the Cubs are doing. To try to portray it as anything else is just silly.

 

Hendry & Co. should have asked themselves: What do we have and what do we need?

 

They had a cheap LFer who produced at a good rate and looked to be improving

 

They had JJ comming off a career year and were looking to trade him.

 

They needed a CFer

They needed people who could get on base

 

They got nothing that they needed (offensively) and allocated a lot of money and a lot of years to do so.

 

I'm willing to bet a year's worth of premium that if Murton gets regularly playing time from 2008-2010 he will have better three year numbers OBP/OPS+ than Soriano.

[jersey cubs fan]

Last season he had an 809 OPS and a 365 OBP when given enough playing time. There is no reason he couldn't produce those #s, even surpass them if given a chance to play on a regular basis.

 

Do you really need me to give you a gigantic list of players who had a similarly good season in their rookie or sophomore year only to flop afterwards? Once again, I'm a fan of Murton and only somewhat playing devil's advocate here, but let's be realistic. His numbers last year do not mean "there is no reason" it won't happen this year with regular play.

 

His numbers last year are not the only support.

[Backtobanks]

Ummm, ladies and gentlemen--it was a little blurb in a non-chicago article. Does anyone think we might be overreacting just a bit--I dont want to trade Murton either, but to be fair for all we know neither does Jim Hendry. Let's at least wait until he is traded before we start to crucify him!

 

I was starting to think that I was the only rational person left on NSBB. I am amazed how some posters overreact to anything that happens to be whispered by someone. I have supported Hendry in the past, but I can't believe he would give up Murton for a relief pitcher especially since we seem to lead the league in quantity (not quality) of relief pitchers. As some posters have pointed out, Murton is the kind of player that you package with pitching prospects to get a big name player. I don't believe this rumor unless it is really an outstanding relief pitcher.

[Rob]

In any real and sane environment, I'm probably the biggest Murton fan in the group... but boy this board is often in another world in its perception of certain players. People are sitting here saying he's cheap since he gives you a .360 OBP and .800 OPS. Yeah well those aren't his numbers. If they were then the Cubs wouldn't have consideration of moving him. I doubt he's traded anyway but that's beside the point... It's only OK to trade the relatively powerless leftfielder who's been forced to (and very much struggling with) rightfield if you trade him for Miguel Cabrera -- otherwise it makes no sense since we've never seen a 60 point IsoD before! ...!

 

Murton's career numbers:

 

.298/.364/.449

 

That's good for a .813 OPS...

 

All that even factoring in his mediocre production in sporadic playing time this year.

 

So yeah, I think those are his numbers.

[abuck1220]

Ummm, ladies and gentlemen--it was a little blurb in a non-chicago article. Does anyone think we might be overreacting just a bit--I dont want to trade Murton either, but to be fair for all we know neither does Jim Hendry. Let's at least wait until he is traded before we start to crucify him!

 

yeah, because hendry's earned the benefit of the doubt with the stellar work he's done over the past three seasons.

[Shawon12]

Ummm, ladies and gentlemen--it was a little blurb in a non-chicago article. Does anyone think we might be overreacting just a bit--I dont want to trade Murton either, but to be fair for all we know neither does Jim Hendry. Let's at least wait until he is traded before we start to crucify him!

 

I was starting to think that I was the only rational person left on NSBB. I am amazed how some posters overreact to anything that happens to be whispered by someone. I have supported Hendry in the past, but I can't believe he would give up Murton for a relief pitcher especially since we seem to lead the league in quantity (not quality) of relief pitchers. As some posters have pointed out, Murton is the kind of player that you package with pitching prospects to get a big name player. I don't believe this rumor unless it is really an outstanding relief pitcher.

 

 

I was thinking the same thing. First, the over-reaction to a rumor. Second, that trading Murton would not be even close to the worst thing Hendry has done. If the Cubs were playing fantasy baseball, then Muton has has good value, but when you actually have to put a 9 man team on the field, mixing defense with offense, Murton has avg. value.

[wilk]

How convenient that you pretend it's impossible to argue. It's not impossible. Any reasonable analysis would conclude the playing time is an issue.

 

I'm not acting like anything but Cabrera is unacceptable, it's pretty much nonsense that you pretend I, or anybody else, is. I'm talking about a general theory of trading a player like him. You don't trade him for short-term bullpen help. You do trade him if you can get a really good improvement. There's no benefit to trade him if you aren't getting a better player in the end. Who that is depends on who else you include in a trade of Murton. Murton and a decent pitching prospect could get you a decent starting pitcher. Murton, Colvin and Gallagher should get you an impact position player.

 

Yes, it's impossible to know what would happen in the future or if you changed the past. Apparently you're trying to rip away the context of our posts in order to play this card. That itself is not very reasonable. Playing time is an issue, everyone knows, but you say with absolute certainty that he'd have 130 OPS points if he had played in 10 more games? Really? If so, I'd love to hear your precise reasonable analysis that without doubt proves this.

 

The point on Miguel Cabrera is the polar extreme -- presumably precisely the reason you mentioned him in the first place. It's been presented as if you either trade him for bullpen help or you trade him for Miguel Cabrera and so I used the same ends.

 

I said I'd be pissed if he was traded for bullpen help. Obviously I don't disagree there. And I didn't comment on any of your posts directly so I have no idea why you take it as that. I was commenting on a perception apparent well beyond this thread.

[USSoccer]

Ummm, ladies and gentlemen--it was a little blurb in a non-chicago article. Does anyone think we might be overreacting just a bit--I dont want to trade Murton either, but to be fair for all we know neither does Jim Hendry. Let's at least wait until he is traded before we start to crucify him!

 

I was starting to think that I was the only rational person left on NSBB. I am amazed how some posters overreact to anything that happens to be whispered by someone. I have supported Hendry in the past, but I can't believe he would give up Murton for a relief pitcher especially since we seem to lead the league in quantity (not quality) of relief pitchers. As some posters have pointed out, Murton is the kind of player that you package with pitching prospects to get a big name player. I don't believe this rumor unless it is really an outstanding relief pitcher.

 

 

I was thinking the same thing. First, the over-reaction to a rumor. Second, that trading Murton would not be even close to the worst thing Hendry has done. If the Cubs were playing fantasy baseball, then Muton has has good value, but when you actually have to put a 9 man team on the field, mixing defense with offense, Murton has avg. value.

 

False. Murton would be just fine in an OF with a slugging RF and a decent CF.

 

He's a better LF than Soriano. He gets on base better than Soriano and Jones. He runs better than Floyd. His skillset is a better fit for our team than Jones or Floyd.

 

Soriano can outslug and outsteal him, but Murton's other numbers make up for that.

 

Basically I'm saying if you think Murton is average based on our OF, then Soriano, Jones and Floyd are also average to below average, because he does something better than all of them do.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I'm actually a big fan of trading Murton for a SP, as part of a sequence of moves.

 

Trading Murton for a middle reliever means I'll be a little more sad every time we make fun of Krivsky.