Lou's shake-up: Guzman and his 3.18 ERA to pen

[Guest]

Shove it up your gluteus maximus, Lou. Guzman belongs in the rotation, end of story.

 

Remember when Lou used to say all the right things during the offseason?

[imb]

Shove it up your gluteus maximus, Lou. Guzman belongs in the rotation, end of story.

 

Woah, take it easy buddy, this is a family site.

[NCCubFan]

Shove it up your gluteus maximus, Lou. Guzman belongs in the rotation, end of story.

 

Woah, take it easy buddy, this is a family site.

Hence the reason I used the term "gluteus maximus" instead of its three-letter synonym. :D

[NCCubFan]

Shove it up your gluteus maximus, Lou. Guzman belongs in the rotation, end of story.

 

Remember when Lou used to say all the right things during the offseason?

Very well. Now he's showing he can talk the talk but he can't walk the walk.

[CubColtPacer]

Would you rather trot out the same bullpen or try to shore it up by putting someone who's been effective into the bullpen?

 

You guys cry foul that we need help in the bullpen, and then he moves Guzman into the bullpen. You cry foul again.

 

What do you want me to do? Keep trotting Eyre out there? Keep trotting them out there to watch them blow up lead after lead?

 

Have to stop the bleeding somehow.

 

Our starting pitching is fine with whoever takes over the 5th spot as long as it isn't Miller. Marshall should be fine/Marmol should be fine.

 

As several people have pointed out, there are other setup otions besides Eyre and Howry. There are 3 bloody lefties in the pen, along with 2 options in AAA. There are 2 perfectly acceptable RH setup options in Marmol and Wuertz that you can use before Howry, and a couple more in AAA and AA that you can use. There's no good reason to justify this lunacy.

 

Maybe Piniella ought to learn from his own mistakes and not put those two gascans in a position to blow games until they fix their issues, instead of crippling his starting rotation.

 

For the most part, Piniella has stopped using Eyre. Only 6 appearances since April 24th, and half of those were either blowouts (the 9th inning of a 7-1 win or a 10-1 win) or extra innings after most everybody else had pitched.

 

So, then, why call up Marmol and then demote Guzman to the pen? All on account of Howry?

 

That's stupid. You don't need to hurt two guys in order to hide one. If they plan on Marmol starting, they're stupid. If they demote him just so Marshall can pitch, they're equally stupid, because Marshall is not going to be better than Guzman, has a good chance to be worse, and Marmol would be better suited to relief than Guzman would be anyway.

 

This move can't be justified any way you look at it.

 

I truly believe that Lou thinks this is the best thing for Guzman's health. Do I agree with him? A little bit, but not really. I would have much rather seen Guzman stay in the rotation. However, Lou has been very frank about what he sees as a problem whenever he sees it, and if he was sending Guzman down to the bullpen just in order to strengthen it, I think he would say that-his quote does not say that though. So I think (at least for now) he's doing it for medical reasons-but if it's Lou who is misinformed or the training staff giving him really bad information, I'm not sure which, because it is most likely a mistake.

[Jon]

I predict that Marmol will see more pinch-running opportunities than appearances out of the bullpen.

[bhogg]

So Lou is putting Guzman there for all eternity?

[Mephistopheles]

Im convinced the Cubs are run by a bunch of snobby baboons.

[Mephistopheles]

SEE GUYS LOU IS A STAT-HEAD.

By Inning / Pitches 	AB 	R 	H 	2B 	3B 	HR 	RBI 	BB 	HBP 	SO 	SB 	CS 	AVG 	OBP 	SLG 	OPS
Pitches 1-15	21	2	6	2	0	0	0	0	0	3	1	0	.286	.286	.381	.667
Pitches 16-30	21	0	6	2	0	0	1	0	0	9	0	0	.286	.286	.381	.667
Pitches 31-45	16	4	3	3	0	0	3	3	1	3	0	0	.188	.333	.375	.708
Pitches 46-60	13	0	5	0	0	0	0	2	0	4	1	0	.385	.467	.385	.851
Pitches 61-75	12	1	5	1	0	1	3	1	0	2	1	0	.417	.462	.750	1.212
Pitches 76-90	4	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	.000	.000	.000	.000

 

'Cept he's braindead and have jerked Guz between the rotation and pen all damn season long.

[CubinNY]

The Cubs never diasapoint do they?

 

Of all the stupid things to do.

 

IF they put Guzman in the pen he will be there for the duration of the year. Then they will trott out three or four fifth starters for the rest of the season.

 

They are beyond beyond.

[anabiono]

i don't think everything is going to be as sketchy as you guys are making it out to be...Piniella is not an idiot...

 

i have faith in him...plus, this article said that this is only part of what is going to be happening...

 

i am still hoping for a trade...actually, i am praying

 

i want to rid this team of junk

[Mephistopheles]

its hard to manage a team much worse than what hes done.

[anabiono]

its hard to manage a team much worse than what hes done.

 

how so?

 

i don't really think he has done a completely horrible job thus far...in fact i think he is doing a really good job, and everything will start working out pretty soon here...

[Bruno7481]

:lol:

 

that is all, the thread is hilarious.

[VVMattVV]

its hard to manage a team much worse than what hes done.

 

I've really had a hard time understanding a lot of his decisions. Guzman should have started out the year in the rotation, and he should stay in it.

Edited May 19, 2007 by VVMattVV

[Mizzou]

:lol:

 

that is all, the thread is hilarious.

The overreactions really are quite entertaining.

 

Still though, this is a stupid move. I don't see the point in it.

[sunnydoo]

I know i got a few people going yesterday in the game thread over the Guzman medical problem deal. You could just see the way it was headed by the way Carrie wrote the article.

 

The reason Lou is upset with Dempster is not necessarily the numbers he has put up. Lou is upset b/c as a closer your job is to go out, challenge hitters, throw strikes and get the last outs of the game. Dempster has continually been out there screwing around (not unlike Mitch Williams), biting at the corners, and trying to sneak his way through the final outs.

Lou is simply looking for a different type of closer.

 

I dont blame Dempster necessarily in this mess. First, its not his fault, he is a converted starter so he may just not have the mentality for it. Second, we can still probably trade him high for some help down the line if Guzman, etc do a good job out of the pen. Third, if Miller is unable to find the form in his return, Dempster might be a good option to reenter the rotation as a starter.

 

Now as i said in the Game day thread yesterday, the reason you put Guzman in the closer role is because of the continual problem with cramping he has. This is the 3rd or 4th time this has come up and they havent been able to solve it yet. At most as a starter, he could probably give you 5 or 6 IP out of the 5 slot in the rotation 30 times a year.

 

But with a 97 mph fastball among other things, he probably does have the stuff for a closer. With that stuff and with him being as effective out of the pen as he has been, why not let him have a shot at influencing 50 games a year while he does have direct control until the end? It would certainly could help with his cramping issue as well, running him many times in short sprints vs. long sprints where he has had issues.

 

The one negative he did have was walking guys. But with changing his position on the rubber, it seems to have positively changed that ratio and his total is way down this year.

 

I applaud this move.

[Jon]

I know i got a few people going yesterday in the game thread over the Guzman medical problem deal. You could just see the way it was headed by the way Carrie wrote the article.

 

The reason Lou is upset with Dempster is not necessarily the numbers he has put up. Lou is upset b/c as a closer your job is to go out, challenge hitters, throw strikes and get the last outs of the game. Dempster has continually been out there screwing around (not unlike Mitch Williams), biting at the corners, and trying to sneak his way through the final outs.

Lou is simply looking for a different type of closer.

 

I dont blame Dempster necessarily in this mess. First, its not his fault, he is a converted starter so he may just not have the mentality for it. Second, we can still probably trade him high for some help down the line if Guzman, etc do a good job out of the pen. Third, if Miller is unable to find the form in his return, Dempster might be a good option to reenter the rotation as a starter.

 

Now as i said in the Game day thread yesterday, the reason you put Guzman in the closer role is because of the continual problem with cramping he has. This is the 3rd or 4th time this has come up and they havent been able to solve it yet. At most as a starter, he could probably give you 5 or 6 IP out of the 5 slot in the rotation 30 times a year.

 

But with a 97 mph fastball among other things, he probably does have the stuff for a closer. With that stuff and with him being as effective out of the pen as he has been, why not let him have a shot at influencing 50 games a year while he does have direct control until the end? It would certainly could help with his cramping issue as well, running him many times in short sprints vs. long sprints where he has had issues.

 

The one negative he did have was walking guys. But with changing his position on the rubber, it seems to have positively changed that ratio and his total is way down this year.

 

I applaud this move.

Dempster isn't closer material because even though he gets people out, he doesn't attack them? And move Dempster back to the rotation over Guzman after quite a below mediocre career there when a 5th starter is more valuable than a closer? What?

 

And Guzman hasn't even been made the closer. He probably never will be.

 

The absurdity of the cramping issue (in different parts of his body, no less) has already been talked about, so I won't bother addressing that.

[USSoccer]

Again, if Lou Piniella is so damn worried about putting Bobby Howry in close games, maybe he should stop doing it. Like he just did. I called the HR the second I saw Howry in the game; why did Lou put him in if he's so bad they needed to pull Guzman from the rotation?

 

What's the point of having Guzman and Marmol be the 4th and 5th RH options out of the pen?

[ConstableRabbit]

Put Guzman in the pen and call up Marshall, who has been awesome of late.

[USSoccer]

Put Guzman in the pen and call up Marshall, who has been awesome of late.

 

Marshall isn't going to do better than Angel, and is more likely to do worse, while Angel isn't going to get consistent work out of the pen if Piniella continues to use the pen like he has.

 

This isn't a hard concept.

[ConstableRabbit]

Put Guzman in the pen and call up Marshall, who has been awesome of late.

 

Marshall isn't going to do better than Angel, and is more likely to do worse, while Angel isn't going to get consistent work out of the pen if Piniella continues to use the pen like he has.

 

This isn't a hard concept.

 

What is seemingly hard concept is that we need someone who doesn't suck in the bullpen. Our 5th starter need not be lights out. Guzman has the hard stuff to succeed in the bullpen. If we're not going to make a trade soon, why not give it a shot?

[CubinNY]

Put Guzman in the pen and call up Marshall, who has been awesome of late.

 

Marshall isn't going to do better than Angel, and is more likely to do worse, while Angel isn't going to get consistent work out of the pen if Piniella continues to use the pen like he has.

 

This isn't a hard concept.

 

What is seemingly hard concept is that we need someone who doesn't suck in the bullpen. Our 5th starter need not be lights out. Guzman has the hard stuff to succeed in the bullpen. If we're not going to make a trade soon, why not give it a shot?

 

Yes, games don't count on Sunday.

[sunnydoo]

Dempster isn't closer material because even though he gets people out, he doesn't attack them? And move Dempster back to the rotation over Guzman after quite a below mediocre career there when a 5th starter is more valuable than a closer?

 

Just telling you how Lou is thinking based on his comments to the media, especially with SNY the other night.

 

And i dont buy that a closer is less valuable than a 5th starter. You have to look at the people involved, not the roles they play. If you can get better production out of a closer with just a little drop off in the rotation, then you should go for it.

 

Not that this should be the shining example, but since Manuel has been villified, look at what Lieber has been doing as the 5th starter in the Phillies rotation. Lieber has a 2.20 era in 6 starts. Myers has a .96 ERA with 5 saves and 1 win out of the pen.

 

If you can get some type of production out of the 5th starter role by a Marshall, a Miller, or even a Dempster, why not do it? At least this way, Lou wont have a stroke, heart attack, aneurism, or end up killing Dempster b/c of the way he is throwing.

 

Kind of reminds me of the love/hate thing Williams and Zimmer used to have.

[VVMattVV]

Put Guzman in the pen and call up Marshall, who has been awesome of late.

 

Marshall isn't going to do better than Angel, and is more likely to do worse, while Angel isn't going to get consistent work out of the pen if Piniella continues to use the pen like he has.

 

This isn't a hard concept.

 

What is seemingly hard concept is that we need someone who doesn't suck in the bullpen. Our 5th starter need not be lights out. Guzman has the hard stuff to succeed in the bullpen. If we're not going to make a trade soon, why not give it a shot?

 

Because a good starter is always more valuable than a good reliever.