Corey Patterson Revisited

[Bruno7481]

Had a debate with a friend of mine last night. He claims Patterson would help this team. He thinks having him in CF on a regular basis would be better than what the Cubs currently have. I took up for Jacque, recognizing he has weaknesses, but claiming he is a better player than Corey. I honestly haven't paid much attention to Corey this year, but his numbers are pretty ugly.

 

.233/.298/.326

 

He is also making 4.3 million.

 

Jones hasn't been a whole lot better, he is also sitting at 1 HR for the season. I still think he is the better player though, and that you can put Patterson in the same category as Wood and Prior, promising players for whatever reason never quite panned out.

[jyoung55]

What exactly was he claiming that Corey would help them do?

[C.C.]

I actually forgot about Corey. Those numbers don't surprise me at all.

[TruffleShuffle]

if we needed to increase the number of people on this team who can't get on base, corey would be a good pickup

[Abe Frohman]

I'd rather have Pagan.....

[killthegoat06]

I'd rather play than watch Corey.

[Soriano12]

I blame the Cub fans booing for Patterson's poor start this season.

[Amazing_Grace]

Patterson wouldn't help this team. This team needs more patient hitters that see a lot of pitches, get on base often, and know how to hit situationally. Corey is none of these. He's a free-swinging, low OBP slugger, who doesn't hit for nearly enough power to justify playing him.

 

I think the Cubs really messed up Patterson's career by yo-yoing him from AAA to the bigs, and teaching him a lot of bad hitting habits. He never learned plate discipline at any level of the minors, but was rushed to the big leagues anyway, and then when he predictably struggled, he was sent back, but never for long enough to do any good. Patterson had the talent to be a very good player, but he never learned the skills that could make him into that. Part of that is on him, but a bigger part of that is, IMHO, on the Cubs. Patterson's career is a case study in what's wrong with the Cubs organizational philosophy from top to bottom, and one of the biggest indictments of the MacPhail, Lynch, Hendry era.

[KingCubsFan]

Patterson wouldn't help this team. This team needs more patient hitters that see a lot of pitches, get on base often, and know how to hit situationally. Corey is none of these. He's a free-swinging, low OBP slugger, who doesn't hit for nearly enough power to justify playing him.

 

I think the Cubs really messed up Patterson's career by yo-yoing him from AAA to the bigs, and teaching him a lot of bad hitting habits. He never learned plate discipline at any level of the minors, but was rushed to the big leagues anyway, and then when he predictably struggled, he was sent back, but never for long enough to do any good. Patterson had the talent to be a very good player, but he never learned the skills that could make him into that. Part of that is on him, but a bigger part of that is, IMHO, on the Cubs. Patterson's career is a case study in what's wrong with the Cubs organizational philosophy from top to bottom, and one of the biggest indictments of the MacPhail, Lynch, Hendry era.

Dusty Baker was the worst thing to ever happen to Corey's career. He had good power for a CF, his patience was rising, and then Baker tried to turn him into Lou Brock. If he had just been left alone in the 6 or 7 spot, he'd probably still be hitting .265-.270/.325-.330 OBP with 25-30 HR's and a good amount of steals. Not superstar numbers, but he'd be a valuable player.

[Amazing_Grace]

Patterson wouldn't help this team. This team needs more patient hitters that see a lot of pitches, get on base often, and know how to hit situationally. Corey is none of these. He's a free-swinging, low OBP slugger, who doesn't hit for nearly enough power to justify playing him.

 

I think the Cubs really messed up Patterson's career by yo-yoing him from AAA to the bigs, and teaching him a lot of bad hitting habits. He never learned plate discipline at any level of the minors, but was rushed to the big leagues anyway, and then when he predictably struggled, he was sent back, but never for long enough to do any good. Patterson had the talent to be a very good player, but he never learned the skills that could make him into that. Part of that is on him, but a bigger part of that is, IMHO, on the Cubs. Patterson's career is a case study in what's wrong with the Cubs organizational philosophy from top to bottom, and one of the biggest indictments of the MacPhail, Lynch, Hendry era.

Dusty Baker was the worst thing to ever happen to Corey's career. He had good power for a CF, his patience was rising, and then Baker tried to turn him into Lou Brock. If he had just been left alone in the 6 or 7 spot, he'd probably still be hitting .265-.270/.325-.330 OBP with 25-30 HR's and a good amount of steals. Not superstar numbers, but he'd be a valuable player.

 

Maybe so, but I have a hard time putting all the blame for Patterson on Dusty. He came up under Baylor (not a horribly different hitting perspective from Dusty), and he had a lot of other coaches in the minor leagues that never taught him the importance of being a disciplined hitter. Even if they tried to teach him that, he was promoted before the lessons could sink in. Baker certainly didn't help Patterson's career, but it isn't just about him either.

 

Incidentally, Corey has never hit over 25 HR in a season and the only season his OBP was above .320 was 2003, when he only played 83 games. He might have developed into a player with the numbers you suggest, but I think by the time Baker got there, it was probably already too late.

[KingCubsFan]

Patterson wouldn't help this team. This team needs more patient hitters that see a lot of pitches, get on base often, and know how to hit situationally. Corey is none of these. He's a free-swinging, low OBP slugger, who doesn't hit for nearly enough power to justify playing him.

 

I think the Cubs really messed up Patterson's career by yo-yoing him from AAA to the bigs, and teaching him a lot of bad hitting habits. He never learned plate discipline at any level of the minors, but was rushed to the big leagues anyway, and then when he predictably struggled, he was sent back, but never for long enough to do any good. Patterson had the talent to be a very good player, but he never learned the skills that could make him into that. Part of that is on him, but a bigger part of that is, IMHO, on the Cubs. Patterson's career is a case study in what's wrong with the Cubs organizational philosophy from top to bottom, and one of the biggest indictments of the MacPhail, Lynch, Hendry era.

Dusty Baker was the worst thing to ever happen to Corey's career. He had good power for a CF, his patience was rising, and then Baker tried to turn him into Lou Brock. If he had just been left alone in the 6 or 7 spot, he'd probably still be hitting .265-.270/.325-.330 OBP with 25-30 HR's and a good amount of steals. Not superstar numbers, but he'd be a valuable player.

 

Maybe so, but I have a hard time putting all the blame for Patterson on Dusty. He came up under Baylor (not a horribly different hitting perspective from Dusty), and he had a lot of other coaches in the minor leagues that never taught him the importance of being a disciplined hitter. Even if they tried to teach him that, he was promoted before the lessons could sink in. Baker certainly didn't help Patterson's career, but it isn't just about him either.

 

Incidentally, Corey has never hit over 25 HR in a season and the only season his OBP was above .320 was 2003, when he only played 83 games. He might have developed into a player with the numbers you suggest, but I think by the time Baker got there, it was probably already too late.

Well he hit 13 in half a season in 2003, and 24 in 2004. His OBP was also .329 and .320 in those years, so I don't think it's that much of a stretch considering he was doing that when he was 24, 25 years old. I'm not saying Baker is the entire problem, I just think him and the rest of the coaching staff probably did the most to destroy a useful player. He was obviously rushed (and Hendry should get the blame for that) and he never properly learned any semblance of plate discipline (Hendry should get the blame for that too since was the farm director) but, despite those flaws, he still could have been a useful player without ever reaching his ceiling.

[hardcorecubfan]

Only thing more dreaded than a cory P thread is another Wood thread

 

both Wunderkind that disapointed

[Guest]

I think the Cubs really messed up Patterson's career by yo-yoing him from AAA to the bigs, and teaching him a lot of bad hitting habits. He never learned plate discipline at any level of the minors, but was rushed to the big leagues anyway, and then when he predictably struggled, he was sent back, but never for long enough to do any good. Patterson had the talent to be a very good player, but he never learned the skills that could make him into that. Part of that is on him, but a bigger part of that is, IMHO, on the Cubs. Patterson's career is a case study in what's wrong with the Cubs organizational philosophy from top to bottom, and one of the biggest indictments of the MacPhail, Lynch, Hendry era.

 

The Cubs didn't help by double promoting him twice when he clearly wasn't ready for the jumps. They botched the development of Corey big time.

[NCCubFan]

I think the Cubs really messed up Patterson's career by yo-yoing him from AAA to the bigs, and teaching him a lot of bad hitting habits. He never learned plate discipline at any level of the minors, but was rushed to the big leagues anyway, and then when he predictably struggled, he was sent back, but never for long enough to do any good. Patterson had the talent to be a very good player, but he never learned the skills that could make him into that. Part of that is on him, but a bigger part of that is, IMHO, on the Cubs. Patterson's career is a case study in what's wrong with the Cubs organizational philosophy from top to bottom, and one of the biggest indictments of the MacPhail, Lynch, Hendry era.

 

The Cubs didn't help by double promoting him twice when he clearly wasn't ready for the jumps. They botched the development of Corey big time.

Agreed. I think Baylor is really more to blame for Patterson than Dusty is, since it was Baylor that pushed for him to be called up to rot on the bench just because he might have been useful as a pinch runner. Of course, MacPhail also gets blame for not saying no to Baylor.

[Rob]

FWIW, Patterson outperformed Juan Pierre by a good margin last year... only making all the trading look worse.

[daske17]

To play devil's advocate, at what point is it Corey's responsibility to take care of himself? Sure, his development was thrown all out of whack, but he had natural talent that is innate.

 

He's been in the bigs for five years now. At a certain point, he has to realize that it's his responsibility to work on himself, either in the off-season or by working with teammates who have the right approach to the game.

[Elrhino]

Corey = poor man's Odibe McDowell

 

Corey was another great athlete who was a horrible baseball player. There were a million to come before, and there will be a million to come along after. To blame it on Dusty is absolutely ridiculous. Corey had plate discipline problems from Day 1, and despite claims to the contrary it often times can't be taught. I wonder how many of those who claim his development was "botched" were the same ones clamoring for him to be brought up when he obviously had huge, huge holes in his game.

[Soul]

Updated, .227/.290/.318

 

Jesus, moving away from Chicago hasn't helped one bit. I can't see Corey sticking in the majors much longer with that kind of production (or lack thereof).

 

Another classic "athlete" pick by the Cubs. Unfortunately, baseball is very much a game of skills and CPatt appears either unwilling or unable to develop good baseball skills, namely hitting skills.

[C.C.]

Updated, .227/.290/.318

 

Jesus, moving away from Chicago hasn't helped one bit. I can't see Corey sticking in the majors much longer with that kind of production (or lack thereof).

 

Another classic "athlete" pick by the Cubs. Unfortunately, baseball is very much a game of skills and CPatt appears either unwilling or unable to develop good baseball skills, namely hitting skills.

 

He'll stick around because of his defense in Center...If Taguchi has a job in the bigs there is a place for Cpatt.

[Soul]

Updated, .227/.290/.318

 

Jesus, moving away from Chicago hasn't helped one bit. I can't see Corey sticking in the majors much longer with that kind of production (or lack thereof).

 

Another classic "athlete" pick by the Cubs. Unfortunately, baseball is very much a game of skills and CPatt appears either unwilling or unable to develop good baseball skills, namely hitting skills.

 

He'll stick around because of his defense in Center...If Taguchi has a job in the bigs there is a place for Cpatt.

 

I wonder if he'll take a paycut then. $4.3mil for defense-only and a black hole in the lineup isn't all that palatte-able. Of course, maybe the market will catch up with his salary.

[C.C.]

Updated, .227/.290/.318

 

Jesus, moving away from Chicago hasn't helped one bit. I can't see Corey sticking in the majors much longer with that kind of production (or lack thereof).

 

Another classic "athlete" pick by the Cubs. Unfortunately, baseball is very much a game of skills and CPatt appears either unwilling or unable to develop good baseball skills, namely hitting skills.

 

He'll stick around because of his defense in Center...If Taguchi has a job in the bigs there is a place for Cpatt.

 

I wonder if he'll take a paycut then. $4.3mil for defense-only and a black hole in the lineup isn't all that palatte-able. Of course, maybe the market will catch up with his salary.

 

Who knows. Mark Derosa got 4 million.

[Productive Outs]

have you guys ever heard of a slow (and unlucky) start? corey patterson's babip right now is .259. this might come as a shocker, but his babip in his 2005 campaign was .262. i've never understood why everyone is so quick to crucify corey patterson.

[Guest]

have you guys ever heard of a slow (and unlucky) start? corey patterson's babip right now is .259. this might come as a shocker, but his babip in his 2005 campaign was .262. i've never understood why everyone is so quick to crucify corey patterson.

 

what's his line drive percentage? Even with a league average BABIP, would his numbers be any good? BABIP is not a hitters stat.

[Drew Doughty]

have you guys ever heard of a slow (and unlucky) start? corey patterson's babip right now is .259. this might come as a shocker, but his babip in his 2005 campaign was .262. i've never understood why everyone is so quick to crucify corey patterson.

 

what's his line drive percentage? Even with a league average BABIP, would his numbers be any good? BABIP is not a hitters stat.

 

20.4

 

he's hitting lots of groundballs though. he'll probably come around to some extent, but he's having an awful year that isn't looking to get a ton better without a massive adjustment -- something he's needed since he broke into the majors.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

have you guys ever heard of a slow (and unlucky) start? corey patterson's babip right now is .259. this might come as a shocker, but his babip in his 2005 campaign was .262. i've never understood why everyone is so quick to crucify corey patterson.

 

what's his line drive percentage? Even with a league average BABIP, would his numbers be any good? BABIP is not a hitters stat.

 

His LD% is about 20. It's similar to last year, and if he had last year's BABIP he'd be hitting about .275/.340/.360 plus XBH's from the additional hits he got from his BABIP leveling out.