Murton getting benched again for lesser player

[A New Era]

Mabye we should put in Murton instead of Soriano right now. LOL.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Mabye we should put in Murton instead of Soriano right now. LOL.

 

Soriano has flat out sucked at the plate. Let's hope he steps it up soon. I'd hate to see him booed at Wrigley.

[oldstyle81]

Mabye we should put in Murton instead of Soriano right now. LOL.

 

Soriano has flat out sucked at the plate. Let's hope he steps it up soon. I'd hate to see him booed at Wrigley.

 

im guessing because murton has been lost at the plate and no one has really stepped up in that slot this year (well since forever)

 

its only a matter of time im hoping before soriano breaks out

[seanimal]

Mabye we should put in Murton instead of Soriano right now. LOL.

 

Soriano has flat out sucked at the plate. Let's hope he steps it up soon. I'd hate to see him booed at Wrigley.

 

I would think the Fonz is still pretty far off from being boo'd thus far. I hope. We'll have plenty of time to boo him in the last couple of years in his contract. The fans treatment of Jacque last year was deplorable, at best. I'd hate to see the same happen to Sori for a little cold weather struggling. He'll be fine, he's cool. Just like the other Fonz.

[Butterscup1679666578]

Mabye we should put in Murton instead of Soriano right now. LOL.

 

Soriano has flat out sucked at the plate. Let's hope he steps it up soon. I'd hate to see him booed at Wrigley.

 

I would think the Fonz is still pretty far off from being boo'd thus far.

 

I'm sure a lot of Cubs fans, including myself, are still in a

http://www.spscriptorium.com/SPinfo/StanInLove.jpg

kind of love with him and will cut him some slack.

[seanimal]

Mabye we should put in Murton instead of Soriano right now. LOL.

 

Soriano has flat out sucked at the plate. Let's hope he steps it up soon. I'd hate to see him booed at Wrigley.

 

I would think the Fonz is still pretty far off from being boo'd thus far.

 

I'm sure a lot of Cubs fans, including myself, are still in a

http://www.spscriptorium.com/SPinfo/StanInLove.jpg

kind of love with him and will cut him some slack.

 

That's pretty much what I was thinking. Man, I love South Park.

 

[singing in gnome voice chorus]Underpants, underpants, we want underpants, search for underpants, tay. We won't stop till we have underpants, yum tum tummy tum tay.[/singing in gnome voice chorus]

[Elrhino]

I see Murton as a career platoon .830-.840 OPS guy. I haven't seen so much unwarranted man-love since the days of Bobby Hill.

[MPrior]

I don't think the original poster's main point was about Floyd playing over Murton - I think he was mostly concerned with Theriot coming in to pinch run for Murton. And I agree with him on this point. I think Theriot is a great guy to have on the team, and I hope he gets some significant playing time this season. However, I see no real reason to put him in for a player who is superior offensively AND defensively, at least in LF - and who isn't terribly slow, either. Especially considering that Murton isn't getting all the starts in LF, it seems foolish to take away the ABs that he does get on the days that he starts.

 

Regardless of that specific issue, I do think that Lou is over-managing a little bit. He's pinch running frequently with Theriot, and I think in Marquis' start against the Reds, he misused the bullpen a bit.

 

For right now, since Lou still has my good graces, considering all of the good things he's said and done, I'm chalking it up to A: still getting a feel for the individual members of the team and B: still being a bit in Spring Training mode.

[ConstableRabbit]

I see Murton as a career platoon .830-.840 OPS guy. I haven't seen so much unwarranted man-love since the days of Bobby Hill.

 

I wouldnt' compare him to Bobby Hill. Murton has had success in the bigs, for one, and also exhibits patience at the plate.

 

However, he's looked absolutely awful thus far this season. He's taken some very weak hacks. I say if Floyd continutes to play well, then play him. The only problem comes in (Dusty couldn't grasp this concept) that when a guy like Floyd starts to slump, you put Murton in and visa-versa.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Murton's got a couple infield hits that make his average look ok, but he's looked like crap at the plate. Floyd has been better than fine.

 

Murton .308/.357/.308 (13 AB) 1 BB, 4 K

Floyd .375/.444/.625 (8 AB) 1 BB, 1 K

 

Murton doesn't even have an XBH yet.

 

Is there a problem with playing the hot hand?

 

Yes, yes there is.

 

So when Murton was slumping horribly last season you'd still play him?

 

This isn't the prospect development league. It's MLB. Wins and losses matter.

 

Murton isn't some wildcard unknown, he put up an 800+ OPS last year in pretty much a full season. Floyd needs to be pretty much at his best to be worthy of more than just giving him a day off. "Playing the hot hand" is way too arbitrary and puts too much pressure on either player to produce or get benched. Either platoon them, or let one get the lions share of the starts. Considering there's probably not going to be a significant difference between Floyd and Murton v. RHP(at least one large enough to justify stunting further development of Murton, the difference between them defensively, etc.), then Murton should be starting the majority of the time.

 

So far it looks like Lou has done the right thing production-wise. To say otherwise is 20-20 hindsight. Floyd has been great. Murton has been lackluster and impatient at the plate. His infield dribblers remind me of the first half of 2006. Infield hits galore. It wasn't until the second half that he started putting it in the air and driving it.

 

I'm sure Murton will get his playing time through merit. He's a good player (not great).

 

Floyd is outproducing him at 80% health right now.

 

Over the long hall Murton will take ABs away from Floyd, but he'll have to earn it. He's not such a great prospect that a team will throw away productivity temporarily to develop him. That's the nature of the game.

 

I don't know if you've been watching the games or following via gameday/radio, but Floyd is making very solid contact. Loud outs. Booming XBH. Murton is lost. You don't have to follow splits to get the most productivity out of a platoon. Part of it's it who's hot now. If you want to play some guy b/c of last year's stats, that's not going to work.

 

Is Soriano raking right now? Izturis? DeRosa? Play the hot hand.

 

It has been SIX GAMES. SIX. 6! Do you not understand how utterly insignificant a sample that is?

 

This is the problem with playing the hot hand. Players look good and bad sometimes, and it varies sometimes at bat to at bat, game to game, series to series. To "play the hot hand" is just playing roulette with the lineup, short hot streaks are so far from being predictive it's ridiculous. At the same time, you want to reward good performance, but there needs to be a structure in place for that. Murton was better at everything last year. He's younger, healthier, a better defender, and is probably better at cards. He should be getting the majority of the starts. Now, this isn't necessarily a criticism of what's happened to this point, because it has only been SIX GAMES, but over the haul Murton needs to be getting the lion's share of the playing time unless something goes very wrong for him and very right for Floyd, for an extended period of time.

[mhuber92211]

Wasn't part of the reason Murton wasn't playing because he was the backup catcher while Blanco was gone?

[RichHillIsABeast]

Murton's got a couple infield hits that make his average look ok, but he's looked like crap at the plate. Floyd has been better than fine.

 

Murton .308/.357/.308 (13 AB) 1 BB, 4 K

Floyd .375/.444/.625 (8 AB) 1 BB, 1 K

 

Murton doesn't even have an XBH yet.

 

Is there a problem with playing the hot hand?

 

Yes, yes there is.

 

So when Murton was slumping horribly last season you'd still play him?

 

This isn't the prospect development league. It's MLB. Wins and losses matter.

 

Murton isn't some wildcard unknown, he put up an 800+ OPS last year in pretty much a full season. Floyd needs to be pretty much at his best to be worthy of more than just giving him a day off. "Playing the hot hand" is way too arbitrary and puts too much pressure on either player to produce or get benched. Either platoon them, or let one get the lions share of the starts. Considering there's probably not going to be a significant difference between Floyd and Murton v. RHP(at least one large enough to justify stunting further development of Murton, the difference between them defensively, etc.), then Murton should be starting the majority of the time.

 

So far it looks like Lou has done the right thing production-wise. To say otherwise is 20-20 hindsight. Floyd has been great. Murton has been lackluster and impatient at the plate. His infield dribblers remind me of the first half of 2006. Infield hits galore. It wasn't until the second half that he started putting it in the air and driving it.

 

I'm sure Murton will get his playing time through merit. He's a good player (not great).

 

Floyd is outproducing him at 80% health right now.

 

Over the long hall Murton will take ABs away from Floyd, but he'll have to earn it. He's not such a great prospect that a team will throw away productivity temporarily to develop him. That's the nature of the game.

 

I don't know if you've been watching the games or following via gameday/radio, but Floyd is making very solid contact. Loud outs. Booming XBH. Murton is lost. You don't have to follow splits to get the most productivity out of a platoon. Part of it's it who's hot now. If you want to play some guy b/c of last year's stats, that's not going to work.

 

Is Soriano raking right now? Izturis? DeRosa? Play the hot hand.

 

It has been SIX GAMES. SIX. 6! Do you not understand how utterly insignificant a sample that is?

 

This is the problem with playing the hot hand. Players look good and bad sometimes, and it varies sometimes at bat to at bat, game to game, series to series. To "play the hot hand" is just playing roulette with the lineup, short hot streaks are so far from being predictive it's ridiculous. At the same time, you want to reward good performance, but there needs to be a structure in place for that. Murton was better at everything last year. He's younger, healthier, a better defender, and is probably better at cards. He should be getting the majority of the starts. Now, this isn't necessarily a criticism of what's happened to this point, because it has only been SIX GAMES, but over the haul Murton needs to be getting the lion's share of the playing time unless something goes very wrong for him and very right for Floyd, for an extended period of time.

 

Was Floyd not significantly injured last season? It's pretty dubious to rate Floyd vs. Murton based on last year's numbers.

 

So far Floyd has outproduced Murton. The numbers don't lie (not to mention the naked eye for anyone that's watched the games). Murton has sucked so far. Absolutely sucked. Will that continue throughout the season? Nope. But playing Floyd over Murton has helped us win games so far. You're arguing long term and I'm arguing short term.

 

Have you seen Murton lately? Crap. Until he gets it figured out, Floyd's the man.

 

Sample size, shmample size. We're talking short term. Sample size is irrelevant. Geebus, Neifi was good at times. Are you suggesting we should have played some SS stud in a slump b/c his overall numbers warranted the start?

 

This is baseball. Everyone slumps. A smart manager can take advantage of the depth on his roster. Otherwise he'd be playing his starters every day no matter what b/c their career numbers suggested it.

[David]

Murton's got a couple infield hits that make his average look ok, but he's looked like crap at the plate. Floyd has been better than fine.

 

Murton .308/.357/.308 (13 AB) 1 BB, 4 K

Floyd .375/.444/.625 (8 AB) 1 BB, 1 K

 

Murton doesn't even have an XBH yet.

 

Is there a problem with playing the hot hand?

 

Yes, yes there is.

 

So when Murton was slumping horribly last season you'd still play him?

 

This isn't the prospect development league. It's MLB. Wins and losses matter.

 

Murton isn't some wildcard unknown, he put up an 800+ OPS last year in pretty much a full season. Floyd needs to be pretty much at his best to be worthy of more than just giving him a day off. "Playing the hot hand" is way too arbitrary and puts too much pressure on either player to produce or get benched. Either platoon them, or let one get the lions share of the starts. Considering there's probably not going to be a significant difference between Floyd and Murton v. RHP(at least one large enough to justify stunting further development of Murton, the difference between them defensively, etc.), then Murton should be starting the majority of the time.

 

So far it looks like Lou has done the right thing production-wise. To say otherwise is 20-20 hindsight. Floyd has been great. Murton has been lackluster and impatient at the plate. His infield dribblers remind me of the first half of 2006. Infield hits galore. It wasn't until the second half that he started putting it in the air and driving it.

 

I'm sure Murton will get his playing time through merit. He's a good player (not great).

 

Floyd is outproducing him at 80% health right now.

 

Over the long hall Murton will take ABs away from Floyd, but he'll have to earn it. He's not such a great prospect that a team will throw away productivity temporarily to develop him. That's the nature of the game.

 

I don't know if you've been watching the games or following via gameday/radio, but Floyd is making very solid contact. Loud outs. Booming XBH. Murton is lost. You don't have to follow splits to get the most productivity out of a platoon. Part of it's it who's hot now. If you want to play some guy b/c of last year's stats, that's not going to work.

 

Is Soriano raking right now? Izturis? DeRosa? Play the hot hand.

 

It has been SIX GAMES. SIX. 6! Do you not understand how utterly insignificant a sample that is?

 

This is the problem with playing the hot hand. Players look good and bad sometimes, and it varies sometimes at bat to at bat, game to game, series to series. To "play the hot hand" is just playing roulette with the lineup, short hot streaks are so far from being predictive it's ridiculous. At the same time, you want to reward good performance, but there needs to be a structure in place for that. Murton was better at everything last year. He's younger, healthier, a better defender, and is probably better at cards. He should be getting the majority of the starts. Now, this isn't necessarily a criticism of what's happened to this point, because it has only been SIX GAMES, but over the haul Murton needs to be getting the lion's share of the playing time unless something goes very wrong for him and very right for Floyd, for an extended period of time.

 

Was Floyd not significantly injured last season? It's pretty dubious to rate Floyd vs. Murton based on last year's numbers.

 

So far Floyd has outproduced Murton. The numbers don't lie (not to mention the naked eye for anyone that's watched the games). Murton has sucked so far. Absolutely sucked. Will that continue throughout the season? Nope. But playing Floyd over Murton has helped us win games so far. You're arguing long term and I'm arguing short term.

 

Have you seen Murton lately? Crap. Until he gets it figured out, Floyd's the man.

 

Sample size, shmample size. We're talking short term. Sample size is irrelevant. Geebus, Neifi was good at times. Are you suggesting we should have played some SS stud in a slump b/c his overall numbers warranted the start?

 

This is baseball. Everyone slumps. A smart manager can take advantage of the depth on his roster. Otherwise he'd be playing his starters every day no matter what b/c their career numbers suggested it.

 

You can't be serious. I mean, really, are you? I'm glad you used such an extreme example, too, because it illustrates the point incredibly well and I don't have to take the blame for it (since the Floyd/Murton situation isn't nearly as clear, although I'm in agreement with those who say Murton should get the majority of PA's).

 

The best decision isn't the one that turns out better in hindsight. It's the one that is made based upon the most amount of good information possible. Whether it works out is irrelevant. Let's say ARod is this "SS stud in a slump" that you refer to. It would never, and I mean NEVER, be a good decision to start Neifi over him (at least, if you're only taking into account potential performance and not fatigue or injury). I don't care if ARod is 0 for his last 25. We have thousands of plate appearances to tell us that ARod is an elite hitter. We also have thousands of PA's to tell us that Neifi is one of the worst hitters in MLB history. I don't care what either has done for the past few games. Even if Neifi goes 3 for 4 in this hypothetical game while ARod would've gone 0 for 4 in that game, it still wouldn't have been the right decision. It would've just been a bad decision that luckily worked out well.

 

Do you play poker? If you had pocket 4's and you know an all in player before you has pocket aces, would you call hoping to hit a set because you've had a good run with pocket 4's the last few times you got them? (Or, to make the situation more analogous, would you trade your pocket aces for pocket 4s because you've hit a few sets recently with pocket 4's but have had your aces cracked the last couple times?)

 

Hell no. You fold (or, for the other scenario, you sure as hell don't trade). You even fold pocket kings there. And if you call with either hand and get lucky and crack the other guy's aces, it still was a terribly bad play and the wrong decision.

 

Sorry about the poker analogy, but I just felt like it worked pretty well here. There's, admittedly, a difference in that there's a human element in baseball, and it might help 'stud SS in slump' out, mentally, to sit out a day if he's had a bad run. That's a far cry from "sit him because he's cold and player 'y' is hot," though, and it's more of a long term type of decision to give him a day off here or there to clear his head than a short term one. If I'm in a one game playoff, and ARod is 2 for his last 15 and Neifi is 9 for his last 18, I'm starting ARod 100 times out of 100.

 

Ok, done rambling.

[Bruno7481]

Has Murton cured cancer yet? Or is he waiting to do that during the All-Star break?

 

This is crazy....

[CubinNY]

Has Murton cured cancer yet? Or is he waiting to do that during the All-Star break?

 

This is crazy....

 

He and Dunn would have cured it a long time ago but they can't get their hands on any viable stem cells.

 

In all seriousness, we shouldn't be too upset, it's been telegraphed all winter.

[RynoRules]

Murton hasn't looked too great at the plate yet, but its six games in. I have been happy with how Lou has handled the lineup so far.

[C.C.]

Has Murton cured cancer yet? Or is he waiting to do that during the All-Star break?

 

This is crazy....

 

I agree. I just want to win. I have no problem with Lou putting out the best lineup and playing the hot hand. It's early in the season and you'd like ot get off to a good start. Murton will get playing time...

[papabear58]

Murton is a good player who will continue to get better. I think my only problem is that Floyd is quite possibly going to continue to get worse (not nearly as drastic as soon people seem to predice) while Murton will most likely get better. I'd like to see Murton play more simply because he represents the future if he can get it all together. It's only six games, and the fact is that both he and Floyd are getting good playing time. That's fine for now because I think Lou is just getting a feel for things.

 

Now if we're two/three months from now, and Murton is doing well and is still platooning, then I might have a problem. I also think the Theriot thing is done because of a winning attidude from Piniella that says, "I'm going to win this game." I don't have a problem with that attitude.... in fact it's a nice change.... I think it will work a lot better when he's comfortable with his players. I don't care what anybody says, you can't be 100% comfortable with your players until you have them playing in real baseball games and are watching them compete when it counts.

[Soul]

I don't think it's cost us a game yet.

 

I'm more concerned with Soriano hitting leadoff than Murton not playing every inning. There have been a couple times Soriano has hit doubles with 2 outs and nobody on because he was 3rd up after the bottom of the order. Soriano's going to hit, and hit for power --- and all those RBIs are just going to grow wings and fly out the window.

 

Heck, hit Murton/Theriot 1st. I'd take a platoon of those two and alternate them at leadoff rather than throwing Soriano RBIs down the toilet.

[Danny82]

He [Murton] should be getting the majority of the starts.

 

He is.

 

I don't understand why some people are so up in arms over this situation. It's hardly a straight platoon. Murton has gotten four of the six starts so far in left field, and the Cubs have only faced a lefty in one of those games.

[Tracer Bullet]

He [Murton] should be getting the majority of the starts.

 

He is.

 

I don't understand why some people are so up in arms over this situation. It's hardly a straight platoon. Murton has gotten four of the six starts so far in left field, and the Cubs have only faced a lefty in one of those games.

 

How many times has he been yanked for Theriot as a "defensive replacement" in about the 7th inning? Not only should he get the majority of the starts, but he should finish the games. He's not terribly slow and Theriot isn't much better in LF (if at all). It's a move that's been made a few times and, imo, is just wasting our already thin bench.

[papabear58]

He [Murton] should be getting the majority of the starts.

 

He is.

 

I don't understand why some people are so up in arms over this situation. It's hardly a straight platoon. Murton has gotten four of the six starts so far in left field, and the Cubs have only faced a lefty in one of those games.

 

How many times has he been yanked for Theriot as a "defensive replacement" in about the 7th inning? Not only should he get the majority of the starts, but he should finish the games. He's not terribly slow and Theriot isn't much better in LF (if at all). It's a move that's been made a few times and, imo, is just wasting our already thin bench.

 

I think right now Lou is trying to get his hitters some chances in "real" games. I think it will all play itself out over the next month as he begins to become more comfortable with his players and what they are doing/can do.

[Soul]

He [Murton] should be getting the majority of the starts.

 

He is.

 

I don't understand why some people are so up in arms over this situation. It's hardly a straight platoon. Murton has gotten four of the six starts so far in left field, and the Cubs have only faced a lefty in one of those games.

 

How many times has he been yanked for Theriot as a "defensive replacement" in about the 7th inning? Not only should he get the majority of the starts, but he should finish the games. He's not terribly slow and Theriot isn't much better in LF (if at all). It's a move that's been made a few times and, imo, is just wasting our already thin bench.

 

He's been put in as a pinch-runner for Floyd a couple times. I'm for that, because it will limit our exposure to a Floyd injury. I'm not sure how many times he's been put in as a defensive replacement for Murton -- that would be a poor decision since Murton's better defensively in the outfield.

 

Wasn't Theriot playing RF yesterday? Could have sworn I saw him out there----struggling with a fly ball again.

[papabear58]

He [Murton] should be getting the majority of the starts.

 

He is.

 

I don't understand why some people are so up in arms over this situation. It's hardly a straight platoon. Murton has gotten four of the six starts so far in left field, and the Cubs have only faced a lefty in one of those games.

 

How many times has he been yanked for Theriot as a "defensive replacement" in about the 7th inning? Not only should he get the majority of the starts, but he should finish the games. He's not terribly slow and Theriot isn't much better in LF (if at all). It's a move that's been made a few times and, imo, is just wasting our already thin bench.

 

He's been put in as a pinch-runner for Floyd a couple times. I'm for that, because it will limit our exposure to a Floyd injury. I'm not sure how many times he's been put in as a defensive replacement for Murton -- that would be a poor decision since Murton's better defensively in the outfield.

 

Wasn't Theriot playing RF yesterday? Could have sworn I saw him out there----struggling with a fly ball again.

 

I don't remember which game, but I do distinctly remember him being insterted in the seventh inning as a pinch runner for Matt Murton to replace him defensivly.

[inari]

I'll agree with that one. There's no reason to have Theriot in right and DeRosa at second. Switch them around if you really need to play both of em, Lou. DeRosa's much better in the outfield than Theriot.