papabear58

I don't have a problem with it. One game and you say to your team that you expect them to give it all that they have. Good for him.

So what, were just going to bash the team until they start winning? I'd like to look at more positive things I guess. YES. this is a message board, people are going to react in an extreme way. Phew, wow, I guess I'd better get used to it then. people are going to react in an extreme way, but i think concerns about the offense and roster are legit. and when the cubs lose, people are more likely to point out the flaws. I guess it's been a long time since I've see so much extremism.

So what, were just going to bash the team until they start winning? I'd like to look at more positive things I guess. YES. this is a message board, people are going to react in an extreme way. Phew, wow, I guess I'd better get used to it then.

So what, were just going to bash the team until they start winning? I'd like to look at more positive things I guess.

You don't understand why some people aren't satisfied with the makeup of the roster? First off, you know it's flawed if Jim Hendry put it together. People want the Cubs to be the best team in baseball and win the world series. Their roster as it stands probably has them no better than a little above average, if all works out. What is there to understand? Why people are freaking out. Slows starts happen in baseball. It's part of the game. If this were two or three months in then it would be time to push the panic button with this winning percentage, but we could just as easily go on a five game tear at this point with an offensive explosion and be 8-5 and then things are looking up. It's just too damn early.

Why is it that many people here seem upset at the roster? It almost seems like people here want different players and are genuinly upset about our roster. I don't understand this mentality of, "You're a ballplayer, you get paid millions of dollars to do your job, I don't give a crap about what you think, go out and hit the ball." I'm no bleeding heart, but I can't believe that this is an effective way to run a ballclub. It's not the 1930's anymore and as much as we believe that should be the way it works, I don't think it is anymore. Many players today have more excuses then anything, and many feel that they are owed something. Is it right, no, is it true, yes. We do have to play and deal with it. If there is a mental block we need to sit a player or coach him to help him get past it. The fact is that you just can't go cutting players and finding new ones throughout the season. Say what you want about who the Cubs brought in this season, we need to make the most of what we have and I don't think the roster is that bad. It just seems like people are ready to fire a number of people on this team (Jones, Miller, Marquis, ect.), or shove them out of their position to the bench/pen because of a poor start. I guess I'm just shocked to see this kind of.... almost seeming anger at a not so uncommon start to an MLB season. It's only 8 games in, that means there are 154 games left to play. We aren't going to win them all, and in fact some of them will most likely be bad games that we get blown out of. Patience and rational calmness should be the order for the time being.

Ah-ha! Mr. Optimism has arrived :D it's not about optimism or pessimism.... juggling the lineup has little effect on the offensive output. If your team isn't scoring enough you need new players, not a new lineup. Just a friendly jab, no harm meant. I'm not sure I share your opinion 100% however. If someone is struggling it might be worth sitting them for a game to let them clear their head.

Ah-ha! Mr. Optimism has arrived :D

I hope you're wrong, but we shall have to see.

Cendeno seemed to be comming arround towards the end of spring. I'd like to see him get some AB's. As far as Murton over Derosa in the 2 hole, I think right now Derosa gives us the best chance to get deeper into the counts and to get after the pitcher early. I like Murton a lot, but he is being a little jumpy to start the season.

When you look at the actual mertis of his later part it bears some semblance of reality. We do not have a small ball team. We are hitting the ball up and trying to swing for homeruns (and then getting on top of the ball and driving it into ground outs). In this kind of weather, our team seems unable to adjust to a different style of baseball that is needed. Is this an inditement on a team who won't change their swing for the fences ideals, or on a manager who isn't forcing his team to adjust to the current circumstances?

That would leave Floyd and Jones off the bench when a right handed reliever comes in. Not bad options. Doesn't Derosa have more experience in playing RF then Theriot? I wonder if he'd "Take one for the team" and play there with Theriot playing second.

Well we're facing a left handed pitcher with a career 5.54 ERA who averages only 6.07 k/9 with a 1.58 k/bb rate. Add into that that his P/Inn. is 16.4 and it's concievable that we could do well today offensivly. I think the key is to go with a good contact lineup so that we can put the ball into play and force him to throw more pitches as it could lead to some walks. We might try: Soriano Derosa Lee A-Ram Barrett Murton Jones Isturis (Maybe Cedeno for rest of Isturis) Hill Any thoughts out there?

It's pretty disingenuous to compare complaining about this game with complaining about anything shy of a perfect game (several people did this). It's pretty disingenuous to pretend those three first inning runs were related to the defense instead of Marquis's not goodness. Yes, Marquis had a bad game, no it's not the end of the world, yes the errors cost him, no it's not all on the errors, yes if the offense had done better earlier in the game it might have changed strategies and had a different result.... we could go on forever. We all would have liked a better performance from him, but it's not ALL his fault as some people seem to be atributing it to. I don't see anybody saying it was all his fault. I've been the most vocal critic of him in this thread, and I've repeatedly said it was Marquis, Izturis and the lineup collectively. Multiple people have tried to absolve Marquis of any responsibility. Funny, I don't think anyones trying to say that he has no responsability at all, I think they are just saying that there was more to it then just Marquis pitching poorly.

It's pretty disingenuous to compare complaining about this game with complaining about anything shy of a perfect game (several people did this). It's pretty disingenuous to pretend those three first inning runs were related to the defense instead of Marquis's not goodness. Yes, Marquis had a bad game, no it's not the end of the world, yes the errors cost him, no it's not all on the errors, yes if the offense had done better earlier in the game it might have changed strategies and had a different result.... we could go on forever. We all would have liked a better performance from him, but it's not ALL his fault as some people seem to be atributing it to.

But that doesn't affect those stats. You can't give up 3 earned runs in the first and pretend to not share in the blame of a loss. Sure, but it wasn't a poor outing. No, it wasn't poor, it was terrible. cool, so anyone who doesn't pitch complete game shutouts is terrible? Just so I know so we can move forward That's a freaking stupid thing to write. Just stupid. There's a very big difference between 5 IP, 4 R, 3 ER and a 1.60 WHIP and a complete game shutout. Don't respond with that nonsense. well my exaggeration aside, what satisfies you from a guy like marquis? my guess is nothing, since you always find something bad to say about every situation No but as we're learning any pitcher having a bad game is subject to being chased with pitchforkes and torches until he turns arround and pitches a good game when he is lifted up and given the key to the city until he pitches a bad game and is chased with pitchforkes and torches.........

Again, you are passing off opinion as fact. You BELIEVE that Guzman will get better and are not allowing for the fact that he might put up the same numbers that he has in the past. You are also not allowing for the fact that he might actually do :gasp: worse then Miller :gasp: It's speculation. As for not deserving another start, if you're that hard across the board (being intellectually honest) then there are a lot of people who would be sitting right now on this club. Hell Isturis and Lee shouldn't play next game because they didn't do their job in the field. One game is not enough for any judgement. Gooz's stuff this season is significantly better (especially his curve) than last season. Why would he put up the same numbers as last year? Ok, so you think that "Gooz's stuff this season is significantly better". That doesn't mean it's going to translate into success. Games are only so much on talent. Gooz's "suff" was better in spring training as well, unless you want to say it magically got better when spring training ended, and he wasn't even able to impress the Cubs manager (who knows quite a bit about baseball I think) enough to make it into the final two competitors for the spot.

okay, say Lou sticks Guzman out there instead of Miller, and in his first start, he goes 2 1/3, gives up 9 hits, 8 ER and walks 5. Then what? you give him the ball and say youre in the rotation. deal with it. millers just as likely to do that as guzman. Wow, dude, talk about faith. You have so much belief in Angel Guzman that you are not even able to see that he might get shelled. Juan Cruz had great stuff and was never able to put it together, there is no gaurantee. I'm not saying Miller is the answer, but Guzman hasn't shown he's the next Nolan Ryan like some people are protraying him. He might be, but he might also suck. There is a chance both ways. It's a matter of belief as to which you believe. Me, I tend to take a safer approach and that's to let him work it out where he can be protected, but hey, the tough love mentality has worked out so well for so many promising young Cub pitchers to date that of course no one should question it.

But that doesn't affect those stats. You can't give up 3 earned runs in the first and pretend to not share in the blame of a loss. Share the blame, but I've often heard (wouldn't know first hand) that pitching is a mentality as much as a physicality. You start questioning the defense behind you and you start over throwing and doing too much and look out. I'm not saying that it did happen that way, but it's possible.

Again, you are passing off opinion as fact. You BELIEVE that Guzman will get better and are not allowing for the fact that he might put up the same numbers that he has in the past. You are also not allowing for the fact that he might actually do :gasp: worse then Miller :gasp: It's speculation. As for not deserving another start, if you're that hard across the board (being intellectually honest) then there are a lot of people who would be sitting right now on this club. Hell Isturis and Lee shouldn't play next game because they didn't do their job in the field. One game is not enough for any judgement.

How? 1.60 WHIP 5.40 ERA That's flat out terrible. Woah there sparky, three errors and a horrible day in the field should also be factored into account on those stats. I bet Lou is going to have a field day with this kind of effort... YIKES! Hate to be in the locker room.

this is really bad for your metabolism. Not to mention sanity? :shock: Nothing that a few drinks won't cure. Damn it I knew I needed to start something....

is any of this incorrect? Well, not exactly, however I believe a little perspective says that it's early. I agree that this team is going to bust out offensivly at some point, I just hope it's sooner rather then later. It's the defense that bothers me as well.

this is really bad for your metabolism. Not to mention sanity? :shock:

Brilliant! And CubbieChris, I LOVE you tag line!