Grace on 2007 Cubs and Dempster

[RichHillIsABeast]

"They went out and spent a lot of money … I still think they spent it in the wrong spots. They need a better bullpen. Their closer, Ryan Dempster … he's all right. But he's not all that great."—Former Cub Mark Grace, talking about the 2007 Cubs on "The Best Damn Sports Show Period."

 

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Well, I wanted BJ Ryan when he was available in FA, so I agree about spending on a closer.

[98navigator]

Obviously, Grace has some beef with Dempster. It makes no sense to single him out as if he is the biggest weakness on the team.

[Omar]

Does he really have to be great? Not all closers are. Great is what you call Mariano Rivera, or what Eric Gagne once was.

 

He should be reliable.

[abuck1220]

Obviously, Grace has some beef with Dempster. It makes no sense to single him out as if he is the biggest weakness on the team.

 

he probably is one of the biggest weaknesses on the team. i'd say he, izturis and marquis are probably the top three.

[bc2k]

Does he really have to be great? Not all closers are. Great is what you call Mariano Rivera, or what Eric Gagne once was.

 

He should be reliable.

 

Really, I'd prefer my team's best relief pitcher not close games.

[jacey]

Grace is really an idiot and he has got to be one of the worst baseball analysts in the game.

[soapy]

The bullpen is the least of this team's concerns (or should be). SP and OBP are their biggest questions marks, IMO.

[frostwyrm]

In a less stupid universe the best reliever on a baseball team would be a "designated fireman" who would pitch in the most crucial situations and the closer concept would never have been invented.

[Amazing_Grace]

I loved Gracie as a player, but like most former players, he's not a very good baseball analyst. The closer role is perhaps the most overrated and overpaid role in baseball. Any role that can be filled by the likes of Heathcliff Slocumb, Jeff Fassero, Joe Borowski, Jose Mesa, etc., is not one that takes a ton of talent to fill. Every year it seems some washed up starter or reliever ends up shocking the baseball world with a great season as a closer. Really, the closer has an easy situation. He comes in for one inning with nobody on base and just has to be competent enough to get 3 outs.

[CUBZ99]

Dempster was awful last year. Grace has a valid point, unless you believe that somehow Dempster got better over the offseason.

[Sammy Sofa]

Dempster was awful last year. Grace has a valid point, unless you believe that somehow Dempster got better over the offseason.

 

There's a lot of evidence to show that he was bad last year largely in part to how infrequently Dusty would use him due to the team being so bad. When he was used on an even somewhat regular basis, he did pretty well. His bad periods typically came after Dusty sat him at least 3 games or more.

[Balsa]

"They went out and spent a lot of money … I still think they spent it in the wrong spots. They need a better bullpen. Their closer, Ryan Dempster … he's all right. But he's not all that great."—Former Cub Mark Grace, talking about the 2007 Cubs on "The Best Damn Sports Show Period."

 

link

 

Well, I wanted BJ Ryan when he was available in FA, so I agree about spending on a closer.

I have to think that's one of the biggest wastes of money out there. Spending big for a guy who gives you very few innings pitched.

 

Develop him out of your system, take a closer from the minor leagues, but don't spend tons of money on a guy that sees so few IP.

[abuck1220]

Dempster was awful last year. Grace has a valid point, unless you believe that somehow Dempster got better over the offseason.

 

There's a lot of evidence to show that he was bad last year largely in part to how infrequently Dusty would use him due to the team being so bad. When he was used on an even somewhat regular basis, he did pretty well. His bad periods typically came after Dusty sat him at least 3 games or more.

 

i think there's lots of evidence showing that last year was pretty much in line with his entire career, save for his ridiculous run in 2005.

[Abe Frohman]

I don't have a big problem with what Grace said. Dempster was horrible last year (I think he will be more effective in 2007, as he will probably be more active) and the Cubs spent a titanic amount of money but still have plenty of holes. We definately improved, but for the money that was thrown out there are still a lot of questions, particularly with the starting pitching and bullpen (closer).

 

Grace said nothing wrong in my opinion, we just don't like to hear that about our team.

[Electron Blue]

Obviously, Grace has some beef with Dempster. It makes no sense to single him out as if he is the biggest weakness on the team.

 

he probably is one of the biggest weaknesses on the team. i'd say he, izturis and marquis are probably the top three.

 

I'd actually agree with that, except the order and reasoning is key.

 

Izturis (plays everyday; pretty good glove, yet no hit)

 

 

 

Marquis (plays only every 5-or-so days, but costs 21M and 3 years)

 

 

 

 

 

Dempster (he's not great, but I'll wait to see if Lou sticks with him if he struggles a bit; if he's not the All Important Closer, he doesn't look nearly as bad, IMO)

[CubColtPacer]

In a less stupid universe the best reliever on a baseball team would be a "designated fireman" who would pitch in the most crucial situations and the closer concept would never have been invented.

 

I'm not sure I agree with you that the closer concept should never have been invented. There is still a mental toughness about closing out the 9th inning that some relievers simply can't handle. Now, this doesn't have to be your best reliever, and it's probably preferable if it isn't-but a closer by committee usually only works IMO if you have multiple people who could be closers by themselves instead of going to a committee because you have no one who could be a closer by themselves.

 

For the Cubs, if Dempster can bounce back he's pretty good for the role. He's not the team's best reliever, but he does have the ability to be a closer, which allows us to bring in our ace relivers like Howry and Eyre in key situations.

[frostwyrm]

In a less stupid universe the best reliever on a baseball team would be a "designated fireman" who would pitch in the most crucial situations and the closer concept would never have been invented.

 

I'm not sure I agree with you that the closer concept should never have been invented. There is still a mental toughness about closing out the 9th inning that some relievers simply can't handle. Now, this doesn't have to be your best reliever, and it's probably preferable if it isn't-but a closer by committee usually only works IMO if you have multiple people who could be closers by themselves instead of going to a committee because you have no one who could be a closer by themselves.

 

For the Cubs, if Dempster can bounce back he's pretty good for the role. He's not the team's best reliever, but he does have the ability to be a closer, which allows us to bring in our ace relivers like Howry and Eyre in key situations.

 

A lot of the pressure of pitching the 9th has been artificially created by the closer/save construct. Ridiculous as it is the save is a highly regarded stat and careers and tons of money can be made by compiling a large number of saves. That's where the pressure comes from. If you take away the save as a stat and discard the closer concept then the 9th is not such a big deal anymore.

[bhogg]

Just make sure Gracie stays away from Eyre and Ward. . . .

[BigbadB]

Spending big money on a closer is not a great plan. Who were the top saves guys only 5 years ago? It's the biggest revolving door in baseball. There just aren't very many Mariano Rivera's, or Trevor Hoffman's, or Lee Smith's. If you are lucky enough to find one of those, you're luckier than most.

 

In 2002 and the top 10 leaders in saves, only Eric Gagne is a closer today. Guardado would make a 2nd guy, but who knows if he'll ever make it back to being a closer. And Gagne's issues are well documented.

 

Only a small handful of closers are still closing. Wagner, Rivera, Hoffman, Todd Jones, Isringhausen and maybe another guy or two I'm forgetting.

 

In 2003, only 3 or 4 of the top 10 are still closing. I put "4" in there because Jorge Julio might be a closer this year.

 

You want a good closer? Find a guy in your own system that's dirt cheap and offers up at least 2 plus pitches with good control, but is pretty much out of the picture as far as a rotation spot is concerned. Mike Wuertz comes to mind. Kerry Wood would have been a possible option.

 

I'm willing to wait it out and see how Dempster performs this year. I think he might surprise a few people.

[cheapseats]

 

There's a lot of evidence to show that he was bad last year largely in part to how infrequently Dusty would use him due to the team being so bad. When he was used on an even somewhat regular basis, he did pretty well. His bad periods typically came after Dusty sat him at least 3 games or more.

 

Actually, in the 2007 Baseball Prospectus book, it's pointed out that Dempster was the worst of all Cub relievers when pitching back-to-back games.

 

One reason Dempster had a worse 2006 than 2005: teams sent in more left-handed batters to face him.

 

I know it's a dead horse, but Dempster absolutely stinks against lefties.

[biittner77]

In a less stupid universe the best reliever on a baseball team would be a "designated fireman" who would pitch in the most crucial situations and the closer concept would never have been invented.

 

Actually, that's exactly how the closer was invented. When the game was on the line the closer came in and finished the game from there. Guys like Bruce Sutter and Kent Tekulve would routinely pitch 2-3 innings. Of course back then SP threw a lot more complete games.

 

Thanks for making me feel old.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

In a less stupid universe the best reliever on a baseball team would be a "designated fireman" who would pitch in the most crucial situations and the closer concept would never have been invented.

 

Actually, that's exactly how the closer was invented. When the game was on the line the closer came in and finished the game from there. Guys like Bruce Sutter and Kent Tekulve would routinely pitch 2-3 innings. Of course back then SP threw a lot more complete games.

 

Thanks for making me feel old.

 

Your user name should be enough to make you feel old.

[BigbadB]

Haha!

[JonnyRed]

If we get the 2005 Dempster, I've got no problems; not one of the best closers in the game, but we could do far worse. If it's last year's edition, we are talking Alfonsucka territory.

[Rob]

I'm thrilled with Dempster in the ninth. That frees up our better relievers to pitch in higher leverage situations.