Rotoworld on the 5th starter battle

[Post Count Padder]

link

 

Cubs Fifth Starter

 

Unlike last year, the Cubs seemingly have a little bit of depth in their starting rotation. The first four slots are locked in as Carlos Zambrano, Ted Lilly, Jason Marquis, and Rich Hill. Lou Piniella's job now is to sort through four candidates and determine which one will break camp as the fifth starter.

 

The flavor of the week appears to be 25 year-old former phenom Angel Guzman. Piniella recently referred to him as the dark horse for the spot. Reports this spring have been very favorable – he's apparently throwing in the upper 90s with sharp command. Last year's 25 pro starts were the most Guzman has had since A ball in '02. He's battled back from labrum and other injuries, and is the upside candidate in this group. It would not shock me to see Guzman reach his 75th percentile PECOTA – 3.98 ERA, 1.32 WHIP, 7.7 K/9 in 119 innings.

 

Wade Miller is a far less interesting choice. Under Dusty Baker, I think Miller would have this thing locked up. Piniella seems capable of giving the job to Guzman despite the $1.5 million guaranteed to Miller. Without a doubt, Miller will be hit hard. This isn't the Wade Miller of old; he's bringing the junk because of an oft-ailing surgically repaired shoulder. He can thank Larry Dierker for that.

 

Mark Prior seems unlikely to begin the season as the fifth starter. He's headed over to minor league spring training to try to work his way back into form. Reports of his mid-80s velocity are discouraging, but Prior's problem appears to be mostly related to confidence and strengthening. He makes for an interesting NL-only endgamer; he could still give you 160 decent innings.

 

Neal Cotts probably won't get much more than a spot start or two this year; he last started a game in '04. He'll stay on as the club's third lefty.

[RichHillIsABeast]

I love the jab at Larry Dierker. :lol:

[Dirt Dog Sparly]

Vince, oh Vince where for are thou?

 

Personally the jab is a bit low. Miller has a funky delivery that screams arm trouble. Blaming that on Dirker is like blaming me for you not winning the lottery.

[NCCubFan]

Vince, oh Vince where for are thou?

Do you mean Vance?

[soccer10k]

Wade Miller is a far less interesting choice. Under Dusty Baker, I think Miller would have this thing locked up. Piniella seems capable of giving the job to Guzman despite the $1.5 million guaranteed to Miller.

 

Love the jab at Dusty.

[Post Count Padder]

Wade Miller is a far less interesting choice. Under Dusty Baker, I think Miller would have this thing locked up. Piniella seems capable of giving the job to Guzman despite the $1.5 million guaranteed to Miller.

 

Love the jab at Dusty.

It's comforting to know that we're not the only ones who detest(ed) his managerial style.

[cbbryan]

Wade Miller is a far less interesting choice. Under Dusty Baker, I think Miller would have this thing locked up. Piniella seems capable of giving the job to Guzman despite the $1.5 million guaranteed to Miller.

 

Love the jab at Dusty.

It's comforting to know that we're not the only ones who detest(ed) his managerial style.

 

Talk to most fans from SF, they knew it too!

[soccer10k]

Wade Miller is a far less interesting choice. Under Dusty Baker, I think Miller would have this thing locked up. Piniella seems capable of giving the job to Guzman despite the $1.5 million guaranteed to Miller.

 

Love the jab at Dusty.

It's comforting to know that we're not the only ones who detest(ed) his managerial style.

 

Talk to most fans from SF, they knew it too!

 

Oh yeah. My editor is a Giants fan and he asked me the other day if Hill had a guaranteed spot in the rotation and I told him that Hill did. He made some comment about how that wouldn't be the case if Dusty was managing.

[A New Era]

Wade Miller is a far less interesting choice. Under Dusty Baker, I think Miller would have this thing locked up. Piniella seems capable of giving the job to Guzman despite the $1.5 million guaranteed to Miller.

 

Love the jab at Dusty.

It's comforting to know that we're not the only ones who detest(ed) his managerial style.

 

Talk to most fans from SF, they knew it too!

 

Oh yeah. My editor is a Giants fan and he asked me the other day if Hill had a guaranteed spot in the rotation and I told him that Hill did. He made some comment about how that wouldn't be the case if Dusty was managing.

 

Dusty's rotation. .

 

Zambrano

Lilly

Marquis

Miller

Cotts

[Ivy Walls]

link

 

Cubs Fifth Starter

 

Unlike last year, the Cubs seemingly have a little bit of depth in their starting rotation. The first four slots are locked in as Carlos Zambrano, Ted Lilly, Jason Marquis, and Rich Hill. Lou Piniella's job now is to sort through four candidates and determine which one will break camp as the fifth starter.

 

The flavor of the week appears to be 25 year-old former phenom Angel Guzman. Piniella recently referred to him as the dark horse for the spot. Reports this spring have been very favorable – he's apparently throwing in the upper 90s with sharp command. Last year's 25 pro starts were the most Guzman has had since A ball in '02. He's battled back from labrum and other injuries, and is the upside candidate in this group. It would not shock me to see Guzman reach his 75th percentile PECOTA – 3.98 ERA, 1.32 WHIP, 7.7 K/9 in 119 innings.

 

Wade Miller is a far less interesting choice. Under Dusty Baker, I think Miller would have this thing locked up. Piniella seems capable of giving the job to Guzman despite the $1.5 million guaranteed to Miller. Without a doubt, Miller will be hit hard. This isn't the Wade Miller of old; he's bringing the junk because of an oft-ailing surgically repaired shoulder. He can thank Larry Dierker for that.

 

Mark Prior seems unlikely to begin the season as the fifth starter. He's headed over to minor league spring training to try to work his way back into form. Reports of his mid-80s velocity are discouraging, but Prior's problem appears to be mostly related to confidence and strengthening. He makes for an interesting NL-only endgamer; he could still give you 160 decent innings.

 

Neal Cotts probably won't get much more than a spot start or two this year; he last started a game in '04. He'll stay on as the club's third lefty.

 

I think Prior is burnt toast

[bc2k]

link

 

Cubs Fifth Starter

 

Unlike last year, the Cubs seemingly have a little bit of depth in their starting rotation. The first four slots are locked in as Carlos Zambrano, Ted Lilly, Jason Marquis, and Rich Hill. Lou Piniella's job now is to sort through four candidates and determine which one will break camp as the fifth starter.

 

This sentence sucks.

[texascub]

Vince, oh Vince where for are thou?

 

Personally the jab is a bit low. Miller has a funky delivery that screams arm trouble. Blaming that on Dirker is like blaming me for you not winning the lottery.

 

So you're the reason that I throw my money away each week, eh?

[NCCubFan]

Wade Miller is a far less interesting choice. Under Dusty Baker, I think Miller would have this thing locked up. Piniella seems capable of giving the job to Guzman despite the $1.5 million guaranteed to Miller.

 

Love the jab at Dusty.

It's comforting to know that we're not the only ones who detest(ed) his managerial style.

 

Talk to most fans from SF, they knew it too!

When Dusty was hired several Giants fans posted on cubs.com (that was before NSBB was born) warning us about Dusty. Very few Cub fans posting there believed them, since the Giants had just come off a World Series appearance. I think most of us thought they just had sour grapes. It turned out they were right all along.

[Bull]

Wade Miller is a far less interesting choice. Under Dusty Baker, I think Miller would have this thing locked up. Piniella seems capable of giving the job to Guzman despite the $1.5 million guaranteed to Miller.

 

Love the jab at Dusty.

It's comforting to know that we're not the only ones who detest(ed) his managerial style.

 

Talk to most fans from SF, they knew it too!

When Dusty was hired several Giants fans posted on cubs.com (that was before NSBB was born) warning us about Dusty. Very few Cub fans posting there believed them, since the Giants had just come off a World Series appearance. I think most of us thought they just had sour grapes. It turned out they were right all along.

 

I remember our response being something like, "yeah, but SF never had any rookies worth playing. he Cubs have a top five farm system. He'll play the rookies here."

 

How little we knew. :cry:

[goonys evil twin]

When Dusty was hired several Giants fans posted on cubs.com (that was before NSBB was born) warning us about Dusty. Very few Cub fans posting there believed them, since the Giants had just come off a World Series appearance. I think most of us thought they just had sour grapes. It turned out they were right all along.

 

 

ahem, cough cough.

 

sorry, just clearing my throat.

[CubsWin]

When Dusty was hired several Giants fans posted on cubs.com (that was before NSBB was born) warning us about Dusty. Very few Cub fans posting there believed them, since the Giants had just come off a World Series appearance. I think most of us thought they just had sour grapes. It turned out they were right all along.

 

 

ahem, cough cough.

 

sorry, just clearing my throat.

I've got some crow to eat on this one. I was one of those fans who didn't believe the Giants fans on Dusty. That's a big plate of crow. I better get started.

[rsmoler]

Boy did Guzman blow a great opportunity today. After watching him pitch today, I'd say Miller has wrapped up the 5th spot in the rotation and Guzman has wrapped up a slot in Iowa's rotation. It's a shame, because I was rooting for him.

[CubColtPacer]

Boy did Guzman blow a great opportunity today. After watching him pitch today, I'd say Miller has wrapped up the 5th spot in the rotation and Guzman has wrapped up a slot in Iowa's rotation. It's a shame, because I was rooting for him.

 

I wouldn't say that quite yet-Guzman had good stuff, and his defense did make it worse for him overall, although he was still very hittable. I think Miller has the lead at this point though, and Guzman has some ground to make up if he wants to take the job.

[oldstyle81]

i got my tickets for like 3 games, all the first 2 weeks of the season

[WrigleyinEngland]

I just can't figure Angel out, he hits 95 on the gun has a nice curve that he can get over yet they knew what was coming. The at bat against uribe was ridiculous it was as if Guz was pointing to his spots. I haven't given up on guzman nailing the 5th spot i just think he needs a little better pitch selection on the 0-2 counts.

[C.C.]

I just can't figure Angel out, he hits 95 on the gun has a nice curve that he can get over yet they knew what was coming. The at bat against uribe was ridiculous it was as if Guz was pointing to his spots. I haven't given up on guzman nailing the 5th spot i just think he needs a little better pitch selection on the 0-2 counts.

 

As Lou said he's having trouble finishing off hitters. I mean no K's has got to be a huge concern. On a good note 1 walk is a sign that he was at least getting the ball over the plate.

[Tedward]

I just can't figure Angel out, he hits 95 on the gun has a nice curve that he can get over yet they knew what was coming. The at bat against uribe was ridiculous it was as if Guz was pointing to his spots. I haven't given up on guzman nailing the 5th spot i just think he needs a little better pitch selection on the 0-2 counts.

 

I can't figure him out either. What happened to his change-up? I believe Tim made mention of it earlier, but it used to be a strong pitch, and he's either ditched it or just doesn't feel comfortable throwing it right now. Just mixing in a few change-ups, I would think would do wonders for him.

[E.J.]

I just can't figure Angel out, he hits 95 on the gun has a nice curve that he can get over yet they knew what was coming. The at bat against uribe was ridiculous it was as if Guz was pointing to his spots. I haven't given up on guzman nailing the 5th spot i just think he needs a little better pitch selection on the 0-2 counts.

 

I can't figure him out either. What happened to his change-up? I believe Tim made mention of it earlier, but it used to be a strong pitch, and he's either ditched it or just doesn't feel comfortable throwing it right now. Just mixing in a few change-ups, I would think would do wonders for him.

 

Agreed. I don't know why he's not throwing it. It was also a very strong pitch for him. He's not going to get away with being a 2-pitch pitcher (unless he plans on spending time in the bullpen).

[BigbadB]

If he still has his off speed pitch, he better break it out in his next start if he wants to make the team.