Cubs and Big Z Avoid Arbitration, Agree to 1/$12.4 M

[BigbadB]

I guess I cant really blame Zambrano for this since Lilly is making 10 million a year,Soriano is making like 17,18 million..Jim drove up the market so much that Z wants to get paid what hes worth.I think alot of it has to do with pride.Him getting only 1 more million than Lilly is probably insulting to him.

 

And it's not just Zambrano and Lilly. Maddux was making 9m to be a 4th starter. Wood made 12m last year.

[abuck1220]

good thing marquis is getting 7 mil this year.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I guess I cant really blame Zambrano for this since Lilly is making 10 million a year,Soriano is making like 17,18 million..Jim drove up the market so much that Z wants to get paid what hes worth.I think alot of it has to do with pride.Him getting only 1 more million than Lilly is probably insulting to him.

 

And it's not just Zambrano and Lilly. Maddux was making 9m to be a 4th starter. Wood made 12m last year.

 

As far as the arbitration process goes, comparing Zambrano to those is comparing apples to oranges. Lilly negotiated his deal on the open market. Zambrano is a sixth year arbitration player. The system doesn't allow for him to negotiate on the open market. Wood signed that deal as part of an extension. He wasn't a sixth year player at the time either.

 

Compare Zambrano's deal to Oswalt who were in the same realm as far as players and you'll see why 13 million is about the right figure. 13 million is below the midpoint, so the Cubs appear to be on firm footing here.

[wvcubsfan]

looking into my crystal ball...... I see the Cubs winning the hearing, and a 4-5 year extension being worked out between now and opening day with an average salary of 14.5 mil.

[CuseCubFan69]

I'm surprised the Cubs didn't go 12 or 12.5 more than anything.

 

My guess is that the Cubs planned on settling for about 12.5, so they didn't want to offer that and then have to work on a new mid-point that was higher than that. They offered 11, they thought Z would offer about 14, and when he offered 15.5 the mid-point of that was simply unacceptable to them.

 

Yeah I could see that but offering 12 or 12.5 in the arby would pretty much have won it hands down for the Cubs and IMO Z is going to get 16 or more anyway after this so why not just give him what he's worth right from the beginning? If I remember correctly, don't both sides put in blind bids so how could the Cubs know if 12.5 would even be a mid-point?

[YearofDaCubs]

I hope that the Cubs win, because in my eyes Zambrano is just being greedy now. His ERA last year was 3.46 not in the 2's so whatever. If I were the Cubs I would do exactly what they are doing.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

I hope that the Cubs win, because in my eyes Zambrano is just being greedy now. His ERA last year was 3.46 not in the 2's so whatever. If I were the Cubs I would do exactly what they are doing.

 

 

Aren't the Cubs also being greedy with their best player?

[CuseCubFan69]

looking into my crystal ball...... I see the Cubs winning the hearing, and a 4-5 year extension being worked out between now and opening day with an average salary of 14.5 mil.

 

I have a magic 8 ball and it said ask again later.

 

I think what you wrote will be close to what they settle for.

 

eidt..the average being 14.5 or what they settle for in 2007?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I hope that the Cubs win, because in my eyes Zambrano is just being greedy now. His ERA last year was 3.46 not in the 2's so whatever. If I were the Cubs I would do exactly what they are doing.

 

 

Aren't the Cubs also being greedy with their best player?

 

Depends on how you view greedy. They may be willing to settle at 13 million which is what Oswalt is making and more than what Carpenter is making. Is that really being greedy?

[Bull]

I'm surprised the Cubs didn't go 12 or 12.5 more than anything.

 

My guess is that the Cubs planned on settling for about 12.5, so they didn't want to offer that and then have to work on a new mid-point that was higher than that. They offered 11, they thought Z would offer about 14, and when he offered 15.5 the mid-point of that was simply unacceptable to them.

 

Yeah I could see that but offering 12 or 12.5 in the arby would pretty much have won it hands down for the Cubs and IMO Z is going to get 16 or more anyway after this so why not just give him what he's worth right from the beginning? If I remember correctly, don't both sides put in blind bids so how could the Cubs know if 12.5 would even be a mid-point?

 

But his point is they didn't want to go to the hearing at all. They wanted to settle at a midpoint, but weren't expecting the midpoint to be so high.

[Soul]

Whatever happens I don't see why this needs to become acrimonious. Either way it's still alot of money, and Z will be signing a long-term deal worth a ton at some point in the fairly near future, barring injury.

[CuseCubFan69]

I'm surprised the Cubs didn't go 12 or 12.5 more than anything.

 

My guess is that the Cubs planned on settling for about 12.5, so they didn't want to offer that and then have to work on a new mid-point that was higher than that. They offered 11, they thought Z would offer about 14, and when he offered 15.5 the mid-point of that was simply unacceptable to them.

 

Yeah I could see that but offering 12 or 12.5 in the arby would pretty much have won it hands down for the Cubs and IMO Z is going to get 16 or more anyway after this so why not just give him what he's worth right from the beginning? If I remember correctly, don't both sides put in blind bids so how could the Cubs know if 12.5 would even be a mid-point?

 

But his point is they didn't want to go to the hearing at all. They wanted to settle at a midpoint, but weren't expecting the midpoint to be so high.

 

I see, I'm surprised they didn't think it would be that high.

[Bull]

I'm surprised the Cubs didn't go 12 or 12.5 more than anything.

 

My guess is that the Cubs planned on settling for about 12.5, so they didn't want to offer that and then have to work on a new mid-point that was higher than that. They offered 11, they thought Z would offer about 14, and when he offered 15.5 the mid-point of that was simply unacceptable to them.

 

Yeah I could see that but offering 12 or 12.5 in the arby would pretty much have won it hands down for the Cubs and IMO Z is going to get 16 or more anyway after this so why not just give him what he's worth right from the beginning? If I remember correctly, don't both sides put in blind bids so how could the Cubs know if 12.5 would even be a mid-point?

 

But his point is they didn't want to go to the hearing at all. They wanted to settle at a midpoint, but weren't expecting the midpoint to be so high.

 

I see, I'm surprised they didn't think it would be that high.

 

True. Given the market the Cubs helped create, it should have been pretty clear he'd wanted Zito-type money.

[wvcubsfan]

looking into my crystal ball...... I see the Cubs winning the hearing, and a 4-5 year extension being worked out between now and opening day with an average salary of 14.5 mil.

 

I have a magic 8 ball and it said ask again later.

 

I think what you wrote will be close to what they settle for.

 

eidt..the average being 14.5 or what they settle for in 2007?

 

I think the average of the extension will be 14.5 per year. With the first year being 13 and the last year being 16 based on a four year extension.

[Abe Frohman]

As mentioned earlier, this is a business. There is something to be said for the fact that the Cubs haven't gone to arbitration since 1993 with Mark Grace.

 

Hendry has mentioned many times this offseason that he is going to do "what is best for the Cubs." I trust him, and know that he understands that locking up Zambrano and being fair are essential to "what is good for the Cubs."

 

This is very interesting, but I think we will all be happy with the results.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Hendry made a comment during convention that I think may be relevant here. He said, "You just can't let a player right a number on a napkin and then give it to them."

 

While he will work to get the player signed, sometimes you have to be willing to let things play themselves out.

 

Hendry right now is operating from a point of strength. Zambrano is a Cub for 2007. The only question is will he be paid 11 million or 15.5 million. Had they been able to settle on a figure palatable to Hendry, he could have made somewhere in between.

 

However that figure would have been the beginning point for an extension. These contracts always escalate. Winning the hearing is huge, because it means that Hendry gets Z for 11 million. Anything he adds to that in the extension would be bonus. It helps keep the cost of the extension from escalating too rapidly.

 

If he loses, the base for the first year is 15.5.

[Danny82]

Thanks for the link, guys. Should be a fun afternoon, heading to Phoenix and then back to Mesa. Maybe Jim can give Z a lift over there.

 

Bruce, do you think this is going to have a big negative effect on getting a long-term deal done? Jim is going to have to say alot of negative things to Zambranos face in the process, and with a emotional guy like Carlos, it looks like getting a long term deal will be very difficult.

He really doesn't have to say much in the way of negative things. All he really has to do is compare what he has done with other pitchers in their last year of arbitration. The Oswalt example sounds like the best. In fact, that analogy itself should probably win this hearing for the Cubs.

 

Ooops, looks like Vance beat me to it.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Danny82

[C.C.]

Hendry has had a histoy of signing his own players. The only reason he doesn't get Z signed is because Z wants to go to the highest bidder, but I can't believe that's true, because if it is, why'd Z drop Boras then?

[treebird]

so we're going to go fight with our favorite player because we won't just pay him the middle number, which is just a couple million dollars more than what we're hoping to win the right to give him?

 

i don't think this can be worth it. even if you win because z is compared to oswalt, he's still going to turn around and ask for the same zito money. what is there to be gained here?

[Danny82]

Penny wise, pound foolish.

 

I don't think that saying really fits the situation here.

[YearofDaCubs]

I hope that the Cubs win, because in my eyes Zambrano is just being greedy now. His ERA last year was 3.46 not in the 2's so whatever. If I were the Cubs I would do exactly what they are doing.

 

 

Aren't the Cubs also being greedy with their best player?

I personally don't think so. The Cubs have been pretty generous with their arbitration raised every year and I don't think 11mil is chump change. Regardless of what FA was, Z isn't a free agent. If he wants his 18 mil let him walk then, but one way or another he's going to have to wait until he is a FA to get his 18mil.

[CuseCubFan69]

looking into my crystal ball...... I see the Cubs winning the hearing, and a 4-5 year extension being worked out between now and opening day with an average salary of 14.5 mil.

 

I have a magic 8 ball and it said ask again later.

 

I think what you wrote will be close to what they settle for.

 

eidt..the average being 14.5 or what they settle for in 2007?

 

I think the average of the extension will be 14.5 per year. With the first year being 13 and the last year being 16 based on a four year extension.

 

I hope you're right. I think the average will be around 16.8.

 

And where the heck were you when I was battling all these guys on how good the Big East was!

Edited February 20, 2007 by CuseCubFan69

[Garwilly]

so we're going to go fight with our favorite player because we won't just pay him the middle number, which is just a couple million dollars more than what we're hoping to win the right to give him?

 

i don't think this can be worth it. even if you win because z is compared to oswalt, he's still going to turn around and ask for the same zito money. what is there to be gained here?

 

A) Do we know the Cubs aren't going halfway?

 

 

B) 4 million

[Danny82]

I guess I cant really blame Zambrano for this since Lilly is making 10 million a year,Soriano is making like 17,18 million..Jim drove up the market so much that Z wants to get paid what hes worth.I think alot of it has to do with pride.Him getting only 1 more million than Lilly is probably insulting to him.

Comparing him directly to Lilly isn't a straight line analogy people. One is getting arbitration money (albeit last year of arbitration money), the other got free agent money.

[YearofDaCubs]

I'm surprised the Cubs didn't go 12 or 12.5 more than anything.

 

My guess is that the Cubs planned on settling for about 12.5, so they didn't want to offer that and then have to work on a new mid-point that was higher than that. They offered 11, they thought Z would offer about 14, and when he offered 15.5 the mid-point of that was simply unacceptable to them.

 

Yeah I could see that but offering 12 or 12.5 in the arby would pretty much have won it hands down for the Cubs and IMO Z is going to get 16 or more anyway after this so why not just give him what he's worth right from the beginning? If I remember correctly, don't both sides put in blind bids so how could the Cubs know if 12.5 would even be a mid-point?

 

But his point is they didn't want to go to the hearing at all. They wanted to settle at a midpoint, but weren't expecting the midpoint to be so high.

 

I see, I'm surprised they didn't think it would be that high.

 

True. Given the market the Cubs helped create, it should have been pretty clear he'd wanted Zito-type money.

This market was created when the Yankees offered a lot of money for Pavano a couple years ago and has gotten worse since then