Bobby Hill signs minor league deal with Cubs

[BigbadB]

Alright. You got me.

[NoDak]

Wow! Four pages on Bobby Hill! A guy we cut!

 

Go figure!

 

I don't remember "cutting" Bobby Hill.

 

Jake is a Pirates fan. But, the Pirates didn't cut him either. They traded him to the Padres.

 

He was traded after we DFA'd him. Technically that's a cut. :-)

 

Did you get something for him? If so, technically, that's not a cut. :wink:

Define something. :-)

 

Clayton Hamilton. Apparently SAN couldn't put together enough used sunflower seed shells.

 

I honestly don't mind having Bobby on the team. A back-up infielder with a career OBP of .343 in 500+ ABs. I can live with that. I wish we had more of a sample size, obviously, but overall I think that is a decent signing. Especially compared to Cedeno and Perez.

[BigbadB]

Bigger sample size? Okay. In each minor league stop that Hill had 200 or more at bats (which includes last year), he's never posted an OBP below .365.

 

2000- .442

2001- .396

2002- .382

2003 Iowa- .365

2006- .396

 

Not too shabby. Unfortunately, I think you end up with a big dip in his OBP production when he doesn't play much, something a 25th man not managed by Dusty Baker is usually accused of.

 

But, I'll take the OBP improvement over the likes of Womack, Bynum, Neifi, Cedeno, etc. infinity. He'll have to really impress in the spring in order to bump someone from the 40 man roster and make the team.

 

It is probably likely that Pagan will be the 25th man. #1, he's already on the 40 man roster. #2, Piniella will probably prefer outfield help that can play any of the outfield positions.

 

There does seem to be quite a bottleneck at Iowa as well. Patterson, Moore and McGehee will be manning 2nd and 3rd. I'd like to see McGehee get some corner outfield work to possibly expand on his utility player value in 2008. There was talk of letting Patterson play some CF, but that won't be happening while Pie is in Iowa.

[Hatman]

The best thing Hendry ever did was turn overhyped prospect #1, Hill, into Ramirez.

 

and...

 

Overhyped prospects #2, Choi, for Lee.

 

Duh...hence the point of "over hyping". The Cubs just need to be careful not to believe all of their own hype.

 

Brew the Kool-aide...but drink it in moderation!

[Soul]

What's really scary is I once thought Bobby Hill would develop into a decent little leadoff/pesky-style hitter.

 

Oh yeah.

 

Don't EVER trust one of my scouting assessments :lol:

 

I thought Brant Brown would eventually be a good successor to Mark Grace, too. I totally suck.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

What's really scary is I once thought Bobby Hill would develop into a decent little leadoff/pesky-style hitter.

 

Oh yeah.

 

Don't EVER trust one of my scouting assessments :lol:

 

I thought Brant Brown would eventually be a good successor to Mark Grace, too. I totally suck.

 

No, Brant Brown really did look like a good follow-on to Gracie, dude could hit. Then the flyball incident happened, and he was never the same after that. Turned him into Lieber, that was cool.

[NoDak]

Bigger sample size? Okay. In each minor league stop that Hill had 200 or more at bats (which includes last year), he's never posted an OBP below .365.

 

2000- .442

2001- .396

2002- .382

2003 Iowa- .365

2006- .396

 

Not too shabby. Unfortunately, I think you end up with a big dip in his OBP production when he doesn't play much, something a 25th man not managed by Dusty Baker is usually accused of.

 

But, I'll take the OBP improvement over the likes of Womack, Bynum, Neifi, Cedeno, etc. infinity. He'll have to really impress in the spring in order to bump someone from the 40 man roster and make the team.

 

It is probably likely that Pagan will be the 25th man. #1, he's already on the 40 man roster. #2, Piniella will probably prefer outfield help that can play any of the outfield positions.

 

There does seem to be quite a bottleneck at Iowa as well. Patterson, Moore and McGehee will be manning 2nd and 3rd. I'd like to see McGehee get some corner outfield work to possibly expand on his utility player value in 2008. There was talk of letting Patterson play some CF, but that won't be happening while Pie is in Iowa.

 

I will admit freely that I am not good at translating minor league stats into major league ones and generally shy away from it when I can rather than flaunt my ignorance. I will bow to your judgment on that. The reason I mentioned sample size is that, while he has over 500 PAs they take place over about 4 years. I wonder if he is a guy who might do well for the first 125 PAs and then drops off from there (precipitously). Your point about his minor league numbers does bode well, though. I would like to see him on the roster.

[CubinNY]

Bigger sample size? Okay. In each minor league stop that Hill had 200 or more at bats (which includes last year), he's never posted an OBP below .365.

 

2000- .442

2001- .396

2002- .382

2003 Iowa- .365

2006- .396

 

Not too shabby. Unfortunately, I think you end up with a big dip in his OBP production when he doesn't play much, something a 25th man not managed by Dusty Baker is usually accused of.

 

But, I'll take the OBP improvement over the likes of Womack, Bynum, Neifi, Cedeno, etc. infinity. He'll have to really impress in the spring in order to bump someone from the 40 man roster and make the team.

 

It is probably likely that Pagan will be the 25th man. #1, he's already on the 40 man roster. #2, Piniella will probably prefer outfield help that can play any of the outfield positions.

 

There does seem to be quite a bottleneck at Iowa as well. Patterson, Moore and McGehee will be manning 2nd and 3rd. I'd like to see McGehee get some corner outfield work to possibly expand on his utility player value in 2008. There was talk of letting Patterson play some CF, but that won't be happening while Pie is in Iowa.

 

I will admit freely that I am not good at translating minor league stats into major league ones and generally shy away from it when I can rather than flaunt my ignorance. I will bow to your judgment on that. The reason I mentioned sample size is that, while he has over 500 PAs they take place over about 4 years. I wonder if he is a guy who might do well for the first 125 PAs and then drops off from there (precipitously). Your point about his minor league numbers does bode well, though. I would like to see him on the roster.

 

I think at this point Hill is an AAA roster filler, playing out the dream. He's the new Die Hard, Troy O'Leary, Michael Restovich.

 

I don't think many teams think of OBP as an asset for a replacement player/bench guy.

[SouthSideRyan]

 

I think at this point Hill is an AAA roster filler, playing out the dream. He's the new Die Hard, Troy O'Leary, Michael Restovich.

 

I don't think many teams think of OBP as an asset for a replacement player/bench guy.

 

I wish Troy O' Leary was just our AAA roster filler rather than our 4th OF.

 

And does that seem crazy to anyone else, that in a bench guy teams wouldn't want OBP as one of their primary skills?

[Rob]

 

I think at this point Hill is an AAA roster filler, playing out the dream. He's the new Die Hard, Troy O'Leary, Michael Restovich.

 

I don't think many teams think of OBP as an asset for a replacement player/bench guy.

 

I wish Troy O' Leary was just our AAA roster filler rather than our 4th OF.

 

And does that seem crazy to anyone else, that in a bench guy teams wouldn't want OBP as one of their primary skills?

 

Not really.

 

With the emphasis being placed on larger and larger pitching staffs, the era of the "specialized" bench player seems to have died. Teams are now looking for more flexibility and a broader range of "skill" out of the guys on the bench than they are looking for people that do one or two things well.

 

In other words, Bobby Hill can only really play second, and Hendry probably sees carrying him as handicapping Lou's ability to effectively use the pieces on his roster... rather than valuing him for the one thing he is good at.

[CubColtPacer]

 

I think at this point Hill is an AAA roster filler, playing out the dream. He's the new Die Hard, Troy O'Leary, Michael Restovich.

 

I don't think many teams think of OBP as an asset for a replacement player/bench guy.

 

I wish Troy O' Leary was just our AAA roster filler rather than our 4th OF.

 

And does that seem crazy to anyone else, that in a bench guy teams wouldn't want OBP as one of their primary skills?

 

Yes and no-I think most teams would like a bench with one OBP guy, one or two SLG guys, a backup catcher, and a defensive/versatile/utility player. Many teams seem to want pure fastball hitters to contrast the usually good fastballs of the closers around the league. It's a good strategy, but it shouldn't be used with all of your pinch hitters as most of the teams do. So I do think they don't do enough and that is a little crazy, but I'm not sure that you'd rather have OBP than SLG on the bench.

[KingCubsFan]

 

I think at this point Hill is an AAA roster filler, playing out the dream. He's the new Die Hard, Troy O'Leary, Michael Restovich.

 

I don't think many teams think of OBP as an asset for a replacement player/bench guy.

 

I wish Troy O' Leary was just our AAA roster filler rather than our 4th OF.

 

And does that seem crazy to anyone else, that in a bench guy teams wouldn't want OBP as one of their primary skills?

 

Yes and no-I think most teams would like a bench with one OBP guy, one or two SLG guys, a backup catcher, and a defensive/versatile/utility player. Many teams seem to want pure fastball hitters to contrast the usually good fastballs of the closers around the league. It's a good strategy, but it shouldn't be used with all of your pinch hitters as most of the teams do. So I do think they don't do enough and that is a little crazy, but I'm not sure that you'd rather have OBP than SLG on the bench.

When you get a bench player, you are counting on him being able to come through in pinch hitting situations. And since pitchers will typically challenge a pinch hitter early in the count, being too patient may be a detriment.

[CubColtPacer]

 

I think at this point Hill is an AAA roster filler, playing out the dream. He's the new Die Hard, Troy O'Leary, Michael Restovich.

 

I don't think many teams think of OBP as an asset for a replacement player/bench guy.

 

I wish Troy O' Leary was just our AAA roster filler rather than our 4th OF.

 

And does that seem crazy to anyone else, that in a bench guy teams wouldn't want OBP as one of their primary skills?

 

Yes and no-I think most teams would like a bench with one OBP guy, one or two SLG guys, a backup catcher, and a defensive/versatile/utility player. Many teams seem to want pure fastball hitters to contrast the usually good fastballs of the closers around the league. It's a good strategy, but it shouldn't be used with all of your pinch hitters as most of the teams do. So I do think they don't do enough and that is a little crazy, but I'm not sure that you'd rather have OBP than SLG on the bench.

When you get a bench player, you are counting on him being able to come through in pinch hitting situations. And since pitchers will typically challenge a pinch hitter early in the count, being too patient may be a detriment.

 

Thanks for summing up my thoughts in a more succint way :D. Another way of saying it is that relievers many times have a dominant out pitch. You absolutely do not want to get behind in the count with many closers, and so the best pitch to attack is usually the first or second pitch fastball-that's why many pinch hitters are either heavy sluggers who hit fastballs well, or players that are there for defensive versatility alone.

[NoDak]

I personallylike players like Bobby. I want a guy who will go out there and, hopefully, take 7-8 pitches on a regular basis. I look at it as a colossal waste of an AB for a player to go up there and get out on 1 pitch. If a pinch hitter takes 5-7 pitches I look at it as a relatively successful AB. Besides, I would definitely want at least one guy who had a solid OBP coming off the bench. I agree that what I would want on my bench would be 1 back-up catcher, 2 sluggers (back-up corner infield/outfield), an OBP guy (to pinch hit for the pitcher when leading off inning late in game), and super-sub utility guy who specializes in defense.

[CuseCubFan69]

Hill would be ok if he can play SS/3B and or the OF but if all he can play is 2B then I really don't see the value in him especially if the Cubs are keeping 12 pitchers. I don't want him to take the spot away from a guy like Theriot who can play multiple postions and give the same type of production with a bat.

 

As for pinch hitting, I assume that the Cubs would only pinch hit Blanco when he starts, possibly Jones against a lefty (If Lou wants to win), Izturis and the pitchers. With Floyd/Murton, that other lefty OF on the Cubs bench so other than that I don't see the use for a deep bench other than the subs getting a start every so often to get the starters some rest.

[SAMMYWHO]

I personallylike players like Bobby. I want a guy who will go out there and, hopefully, take 7-8 pitches on a regular basis. I look at it as a colossal waste of an AB for a player to go up there and get out on 1 pitch. If a pinch hitter takes 5-7 pitches I look at it as a relatively successful AB. Besides, I would definitely want at least one guy who had a solid OBP coming off the bench. I agree that what I would want on my bench would be 1 back-up catcher, 2 sluggers (back-up corner infield/outfield), an OBP guy (to pinch hit for the pitcher when leading off inning late in game), and super-sub utility guy who specializes in defense.

 

I agree with most of that except going up there and taking 7-8 pitches late in the game. I think it's more valuable when your wearing out the starting pitcher then a reliever. Mainly because there's 5-6 left in the bullpen.

[CuseCubFan69]

I personallylike players like Bobby. I want a guy who will go out there and, hopefully, take 7-8 pitches on a regular basis. I look at it as a colossal waste of an AB for a player to go up there and get out on 1 pitch. If a pinch hitter takes 5-7 pitches I look at it as a relatively successful AB. Besides, I would definitely want at least one guy who had a solid OBP coming off the bench. I agree that what I would want on my bench would be 1 back-up catcher, 2 sluggers (back-up corner infield/outfield), an OBP guy (to pinch hit for the pitcher when leading off inning late in game), and super-sub utility guy who specializes in defense.

 

I agree with most of that except going up there and taking 7-8 pitches late in the game. I think it's more valuable when your wearing out the starting pitcher then a reliever. Mainly because there's 5-6 left in the bullpen.

 

I think it depends on the situation too. If Hill is up and a man is on second and two outs plus the pitchers spot is up next, I want him to drive the ball no matter what the amount of pitches are.

[CubColtPacer]

Hill would be ok if he can play SS/3B and or the OF but if all he can play is 2B then I really don't see the value in him especially if the Cubs are keeping 12 pitchers. I don't want him to take the spot away from a guy like Theriot who can play multiple postions and give the same type of production with a bat.

 

As for pinch hitting, I assume that the Cubs would only pinch hit Blanco when he starts, possibly Jones against a lefty (If Lou wants to win), Izturis and the pitchers. With Floyd/Murton, that other lefty OF on the Cubs bench so other than that I don't see the use for a deep bench other than the subs getting a start every so often to get the starters some rest.

 

Agreed-I think the key is that B. Hill might fit on our bench if the team didn't have anyone like him. Since the team already has Theriot though, and Hill can play only one position, he just doesn't become very valuable to this team whatsoever.

[Bruno7481]

I personallylike players like Bobby. I want a guy who will go out there and, hopefully, take 7-8 pitches on a regular basis. I look at it as a colossal waste of an AB for a player to go up there and get out on 1 pitch. If a pinch hitter takes 5-7 pitches I look at it as a relatively successful AB. Besides, I would definitely want at least one guy who had a solid OBP coming off the bench. I agree that what I would want on my bench would be 1 back-up catcher, 2 sluggers (back-up corner infield/outfield), an OBP guy (to pinch hit for the pitcher when leading off inning late in game), and super-sub utility guy who specializes in defense.

 

I agree with most of that except going up there and taking 7-8 pitches late in the game. I think it's more valuable when your wearing out the starting pitcher then a reliever. Mainly because there's 5-6 left in the bullpen.

 

I think it depends on the situation too. If Hill is up and a man is on second and two outs plus the pitchers spot is up next, I want him to drive the ball no matter what the amount of pitches are.

 

Exactly.

 

A walk doesn't do you much good in that situation.

[Jehrico]

Last time we had Hill, we traded him for the Pirates for a young 3bman who was soon going to be too expensive for them. Think we could flip him again for Freddy Sanchez? :lol:

[fromthestretch]

Hill would be ok if he can play SS/3B and or the OF but if all he can play is 2B then I really don't see the value in him especially if the Cubs are keeping 12 pitchers. I don't want him to take the spot away from a guy like Theriot who can play multiple postions and give the same type of production with a bat.

 

As for pinch hitting, I assume that the Cubs would only pinch hit Blanco when he starts, possibly Jones against a lefty (If Lou wants to win), Izturis and the pitchers. With Floyd/Murton, that other lefty OF on the Cubs bench so other than that I don't see the use for a deep bench other than the subs getting a start every so often to get the starters some rest.

 

Agreed-I think the key is that B. Hill might fit on our bench if the team didn't have anyone like him. Since the team already has Theriot though, and Hill can play only one position, he just doesn't become very valuable to this team whatsoever.

 

He can actually play two positions: 3B and 2B.

[fromthestretch]

I personallylike players like Bobby. I want a guy who will go out there and, hopefully, take 7-8 pitches on a regular basis. I look at it as a colossal waste of an AB for a player to go up there and get out on 1 pitch. If a pinch hitter takes 5-7 pitches I look at it as a relatively successful AB. Besides, I would definitely want at least one guy who had a solid OBP coming off the bench. I agree that what I would want on my bench would be 1 back-up catcher, 2 sluggers (back-up corner infield/outfield), an OBP guy (to pinch hit for the pitcher when leading off inning late in game), and super-sub utility guy who specializes in defense.

 

I agree with most of that except going up there and taking 7-8 pitches late in the game. I think it's more valuable when your wearing out the starting pitcher then a reliever. Mainly because there's 5-6 left in the bullpen.

 

I think it depends on the situation too. If Hill is up and a man is on second and two outs plus the pitchers spot is up next, I want him to drive the ball no matter what the amount of pitches are.

 

Exactly.

 

A walk doesn't do you much good in that situation.

 

Neither does swinging at a pitch out of the strikezone when the pitcher won't give you anything to hit with the ninth spot in the order due up behind you.

 

No one is saying to go up and look for a walk. But if you're not given a good pitch to hit, take your walk and let your teammate do his job.

[CubColtPacer]

Hill would be ok if he can play SS/3B and or the OF but if all he can play is 2B then I really don't see the value in him especially if the Cubs are keeping 12 pitchers. I don't want him to take the spot away from a guy like Theriot who can play multiple postions and give the same type of production with a bat.

 

As for pinch hitting, I assume that the Cubs would only pinch hit Blanco when he starts, possibly Jones against a lefty (If Lou wants to win), Izturis and the pitchers. With Floyd/Murton, that other lefty OF on the Cubs bench so other than that I don't see the use for a deep bench other than the subs getting a start every so often to get the starters some rest.

 

Agreed-I think the key is that B. Hill might fit on our bench if the team didn't have anyone like him. Since the team already has Theriot though, and Hill can play only one position, he just doesn't become very valuable to this team whatsoever.

 

He can actually play two positions: 3B and 2B.

 

Thanks for the info-that would certainly be a big point in his favor making the team-I'm still not sure I'd keep him over a backup CF, but that would certainly make the debate a whole lot closer.

[BigbadB]

Exactly.

 

A walk doesn't do you much good in that situation.

 

I agree with that too. However, I think there will be plenty of times where the pinch hitter (pitcher's spot) will be leading off an inning if Izturis is batting 8th, and it would be a good thing to get the pinch hitter on base somehow with Soriano due up next.

[Twiggy]

lol whoop dee doo that is what I think of Bobby Hill.