Cards Re-sign Preston Wilson, 1yr/1 Mil

[Soul]

It's 1 bona-fide starter, 1 torn-up atrocious starter, 1 unknown new guy, and 2 spots to be filled with relievers or junk.

 

It's going to take some serious managing & GM'ing (ehemjuiceehem) to win with that rotation.

[daske17]

It's 1 bona-fide starter, 1 torn-up atrocious starter, 1 unknown new guy, and 2 spots to be filled with relievers or junk.

 

It's going to take some serious managing & GM'ing (ehemjuiceehem) to win with that rotation.

 

Not that I don't love accusing the Cardinals of juicing, but is there any evidence of Cardinals pitchers breaking down in a steroid-suspicious manner, or for that matter, completely falling apart after leaving the team?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Who is #2 and #3 then?

 

I'd guess you've got Reyes up there...but Mulder isn't in the rotation till June at best...so you've got

1. Carp

2. Reyes

3. Wainwright?

4. Wells

5. Brad Thompson?

 

 

That's the only way I see Wells as their #4 unless I'm forgetting somebody completely. That's a pretty weak rotation no matter how you slice it.

 

They have Ryan Franklin. :lmao:

[A New Era]

How is it the cardinal can come to ST with 1 starter and the rest rookies with not even a half year under their belt and junk, and cardinals fans can be happy with that?

 

That be like us having a plan for this rotation. . .

 

Zambrano

Hill

Marshall

Guzman

and Rusch

 

And just expecting everone to step up and be great, or acceptable.

[Drew Doughty]

well, i expect a whole lot more out of Reyes and Wainwright than i do about any Cubs young starter other than Hill. There's a difference between Wainwright/Reyes and the crap we threw out last year.

[baseball7897]

well, i expect a whole lot more out of Reyes and Wainwright than i do about any Cubs young starter other than Hill. There's a difference between Wainwright/Reyes and the crap we threw out last year.

 

Im really, really high on Wainwright. I think I have said that before.

 

The Cards have alot of question marks in that rotation. Can Carpenter and Kip Wells stay healthy for an entire season? Can Wainwright and Reyes step up and pitch 175+ innings? And who is going to be the 5th starter?

[CP_414]

well, i expect a whole lot more out of Reyes and Wainwright than i do about any Cubs young starter other than Hill. There's a difference between Wainwright/Reyes and the crap we threw out last year.

 

Zambrano is younger than Hill. I know what you mean though.

[Drew Doughty]

well, i expect a whole lot more out of Reyes and Wainwright than i do about any Cubs young starter other than Hill. There's a difference between Wainwright/Reyes and the crap we threw out last year.

 

Zambrano is younger than Hill. I know what you mean though.

 

yeah...you forget about that kind of thing when he's the best pitcher on your staff by leaps and bounds.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Here's an interesting comparison.

 

2005, Age 24, AAA (PCL), second year in AAA

 

4.33 ERA

1.33 WHIP

7.00 K/9

2.83 BB/9

9.17 H/9

0.64 HR/9

 

 

2005, Age 24, AAA (PCL), second year in AAA

 

4.40 ERA

1.40 WHIP

7.27 K/9

2.52 BB/9

10.09 H/9

0.89 HR/9

 

 

Now, which one is Sergio Mitre, and which one is Adam Wainwright(the last year he was a SP), and more importantly, does it matter which one is which?

[UK1679666180]

Here's an interesting comparison.

 

2005, Age 24, AAA (PCL), second year in AAA

 

4.33 ERA

1.33 WHIP

7.00 K/9

2.83 BB/9

9.17 H/9

0.64 HR/9

 

 

2005, Age 24, AAA (PCL), second year in AAA

 

4.40 ERA

1.40 WHIP

7.27 K/9

2.52 BB/9

10.09 H/9

0.89 HR/9

 

 

Now, which one is Sergio Mitre, and which one is Adam Wainwright(the last year he was a SP), and more importantly, does it matter which one is which?

 

You should also compare stuff, which one has two outstanding above avg. pitches and which one has none.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Here's an interesting comparison.

 

2005, Age 24, AAA (PCL), second year in AAA

 

4.33 ERA

1.33 WHIP

7.00 K/9

2.83 BB/9

9.17 H/9

0.64 HR/9

 

 

2005, Age 24, AAA (PCL), second year in AAA

 

4.40 ERA

1.40 WHIP

7.27 K/9

2.52 BB/9

10.09 H/9

0.89 HR/9

 

 

Now, which one is Sergio Mitre, and which one is Adam Wainwright(the last year he was a SP), and more importantly, does it matter which one is which?

 

You should also compare stuff, which one has two outstanding above avg. pitches and which one has none.

 

Obviously Wainwright has the hammer curve(I'm not sure I'd call any of his other pitches outstanding, especially as a starter), but the point I'm getting at is that Wainwright was far from a stud as a starting pitcher. Even with good stuff it's not an easy task to go from reliever to starter, and counting on him as the 2/3 in a rotation is a pretty shaky proposition.

[UK1679666180]

His FB is an above avg. pitch as well IMO, the odds of him advancing to a 2-3 starter in the majors is much higher than Mitre's.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

His FB is an above avg. pitch as well IMO, the odds of him advancing to a 2-3 starter in the majors is much higher than Mitre's.

 

Naturally that's true, but that's not the point I was making. My point is that despite his success as a reliever, Wainwright has yet to prove himself a capable starter, and therefore his immediate placement in that 2-3 spot in the rotation makes for risky business.

[nilodnayr]

His FB is an above avg. pitch as well IMO, the odds of him advancing to a 2-3 starter in the majors is much higher than Mitre's.

 

Naturally that's true, but that's not the point I was making. My point is that despite his success as a reliever, Wainwright has yet to prove himself a capable starter, and therefore his immediate placement in that 2-3 spot in the rotation makes for risky business.

 

 

Shush, let baseball7897 pick Wainwright in the next round of our draft.

[baseball7897]

His FB is an above avg. pitch as well IMO, the odds of him advancing to a 2-3 starter in the majors is much higher than Mitre's.

 

Naturally that's true, but that's not the point I was making. My point is that despite his success as a reliever, Wainwright has yet to prove himself a capable starter, and therefore his immediate placement in that 2-3 spot in the rotation makes for risky business.

 

 

Shush, let baseball7897 pick Wainwright in the next round of our draft.

 

Wainwright needs to develop a changeup if he wants to remain a starter. He could get away with having having only two pitches in the bullpen, because you only need two pitches when you're a relief pitcher. He showed he could command his breaking pitch in any count he was in, and he also showed the ability to locate his fastball in the 4 and 1 spot.

[BigbadB]

This isn't meant as a feel sorry post for Cardinal fans, but I really don't understand what they are doing this offseason.

 

The Cardinals just came off a World Series win in a brand new baseball park. While the Preston Wilson signing is a good one in terms of years and dollars, where are the big money players to keep the team competitive this coming year and beyond?

 

I agree that Reyes and Wainright are better prospects than the Cubs guys of last year (exception for Hill), but they are still extremely thin in the rotation and will now also be thin in the pen once they remove Wainright from the equation.

 

It's as though they are cutting back on the budget rather than showing their fans the appreciation they deserve for filling that brand new stadium all season long and a World Series win.

 

If I was a Cub fan and this was taking place, I'd be outraged.

 

Instead, the Cubs throw more money out there and still don't win a World Series. At least they pretend like they care about the fans. :joker:

[beer_man]

His FB is an above avg. pitch as well IMO, the odds of him advancing to a 2-3 starter in the majors is much higher than Mitre's.

 

Naturally that's true, but that's not the point I was making. My point is that despite his success as a reliever, Wainwright has yet to prove himself a capable starter, and therefore his immediate placement in that 2-3 spot in the rotation makes for risky business.

 

 

Shush, let baseball7897 pick Wainwright in the next round of our draft.

 

Wainwright needs to develop a changeup if he wants to remain a starter. He could get away with having having only two pitches in the bullpen, because you only need two pitches when you're a relief pitcher. He showed he could command his breaking pitch in any count he was in, and he also showed the ability to locate his fastball in the 4 and 1 spot.

 

He has 4 pitches. He has a good slider he used to close out the WS and he does have a change he didn't have to use much as a reliever. LAst year was the first year he was ever used in the BP. He has been a starter his whole career other than that...Even without him in the BP the Cards have a surplus of BP arms going to battle it out in ST this year. I am exited to watch him and Reyes pitch this year (vs. the awful feeling I would get watching Marquis pitch last year). Overall the Cards starting pitching was awful for most of the season other than Carp. It will nopt take a lot to improve upon it. I would be a lot more nervous if we did no have TLR, Walt, and Dunc running the show...they have shown year after year the ability to get the most out of their players...

[Amazing_Grace]

How is it the cardinal can come to ST with 1 starter and the rest rookies with not even a half year under their belt and junk, and cardinals fans can be happy with that?

 

That be like us having a plan for this rotation. . .

 

Zambrano

Hill

Marshall

Guzman

and Rusch

 

And just expecting everone to step up and be great, or acceptable.

 

The Cards score more runs than the Cubs. Their rotation can afford to be worse than ours. Also, 2/5 of our rotation is composed of an injury riddled Miller/Prior and Jason Marquis. After losing Weaver and Suppan, their rotation will probably not match last year's, however, and the Cards haven't really added much on offense or pitching wise, other than the aforementioned Wilson. The Cubs should have a somewhat better starting rotation but the Cards should have a significantly better offense. Honestly, everyone in the central looks pretty mediocre at this point (save the Pirates, who still suck, and Houston, who will only have a shot if Clemens comes back again). I think everybody other than those two teams could win the division if things break their way. It will probably come down to who is healthier.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

How is it the cardinal can come to ST with 1 starter and the rest rookies with not even a half year under their belt and junk, and cardinals fans can be happy with that?

 

That be like us having a plan for this rotation. . .

 

Zambrano

Hill

Marshall

Guzman

and Rusch

 

And just expecting everone to step up and be great, or acceptable.

 

The Cards score more runs than the Cubs. Their rotation can afford to be worse than ours. Also, 2/5 of our rotation is composed of an injury riddled Miller/Prior and Jason Marquis. After losing Weaver and Suppan, their rotation will probably not match last year's, however, and the Cards haven't really added much on offense or pitching wise, other than the aforementioned Wilson. The Cubs should have a somewhat better starting rotation but the Cards should have a significantly better offense. Honestly, everyone in the central looks pretty mediocre at this point (save the Pirates, who still suck, and Houston, who will only have a shot if Clemens comes back again). I think everybody other than those two teams could win the division if things break their way. It will probably come down to who is healthier.

 

I'm going to need some convincing that the Cardinals offense is even slightly better than the Cubs, never mind significantly better.

 

 

 

Their approach to the rotation should be familiar, because it's what we've done the past few years with a different variable. Instead of "if these guys stay healthy" it's "if these young guys progress/if duncan can turn these guys around".

[Balsa]

Other than the 15 wins amassed by staff ace Chris Carpenter last year, the Cardinals enter spring training with only seven other wins having been generated by their prospective rotation, as starters, last year. Anthony Reyes won five and Kip Wells two. Adam Wainwright, Braden Looper and Ryan Franklin didn't start a game.

From Ben Maller.

 

I know wins don't count for much, but that's just frightening. I'd be quite ready to expect a bad season if I was a Cards fan.

[NCCubFan]

I'd be quite ready to expect a bad season if I was a Cards fan.

I'm quite ready to expect a bad season from the Cards, and I'm a Cubs fan. :D

[Soul]

Other than the 15 wins amassed by staff ace Chris Carpenter last year, the Cardinals enter spring training with only seven other wins having been generated by their prospective rotation, as starters, last year. Anthony Reyes won five and Kip Wells two. Adam Wainwright, Braden Looper and Ryan Franklin didn't start a game.

From Ben Maller.

 

I know wins don't count for much, but that's just frightening. I'd be quite ready to expect a bad season if I was a Cards fan.

 

There's just no question. Brewers are better right now. I think Houston's better too, and the Cubs.

 

By all rights the Cards should be finishing 4th in the Central this year.

[CubColtPacer]

How is it the cardinal can come to ST with 1 starter and the rest rookies with not even a half year under their belt and junk, and cardinals fans can be happy with that?

 

That be like us having a plan for this rotation. . .

 

Zambrano

Hill

Marshall

Guzman

and Rusch

 

And just expecting everone to step up and be great, or acceptable.

 

The Cards score more runs than the Cubs. Their rotation can afford to be worse than ours. Also, 2/5 of our rotation is composed of an injury riddled Miller/Prior and Jason Marquis. After losing Weaver and Suppan, their rotation will probably not match last year's, however, and the Cards haven't really added much on offense or pitching wise, other than the aforementioned Wilson. The Cubs should have a somewhat better starting rotation but the Cards should have a significantly better offense. Honestly, everyone in the central looks pretty mediocre at this point (save the Pirates, who still suck, and Houston, who will only have a shot if Clemens comes back again). I think everybody other than those two teams could win the division if things break their way. It will probably come down to who is healthier.

 

I'm going to need some convincing that the Cardinals offense is even slightly better than the Cubs, never mind significantly better.

 

 

 

Their approach to the rotation should be familiar, because it's what we've done the past few years with a different variable. Instead of "if these guys stay healthy" it's "if these young guys progress/if duncan can turn these guys around".

 

I was going to post that earlier-I don't see how the Cardinals lineup is any better than the Cubs lineup, and it might be a little bit worse.

[Amazing_Grace]

How is it the cardinal can come to ST with 1 starter and the rest rookies with not even a half year under their belt and junk, and cardinals fans can be happy with that?

 

That be like us having a plan for this rotation. . .

 

Zambrano

Hill

Marshall

Guzman

and Rusch

 

And just expecting everone to step up and be great, or acceptable.

 

The Cards score more runs than the Cubs. Their rotation can afford to be worse than ours. Also, 2/5 of our rotation is composed of an injury riddled Miller/Prior and Jason Marquis. After losing Weaver and Suppan, their rotation will probably not match last year's, however, and the Cards haven't really added much on offense or pitching wise, other than the aforementioned Wilson. The Cubs should have a somewhat better starting rotation but the Cards should have a significantly better offense. Honestly, everyone in the central looks pretty mediocre at this point (save the Pirates, who still suck, and Houston, who will only have a shot if Clemens comes back again). I think everybody other than those two teams could win the division if things break their way. It will probably come down to who is healthier.

 

I'm going to need some convincing that the Cardinals offense is even slightly better than the Cubs, never mind significantly better.

 

 

 

Their approach to the rotation should be familiar, because it's what we've done the past few years with a different variable. Instead of "if these guys stay healthy" it's "if these young guys progress/if duncan can turn these guys around".

 

They scored around 65 more runs than us last season, despite Edmonds being injured for a good part of the season. We've added Soriano and subtracted Pierre for an upgrade, but everything else has been kind of a lateral move. DeRosa may or may not be better than Todd Walker offensively. Izturis is no better than Cedeno or Perez offensively. If Lee stays healthy, we'll be better at 2 positions. We may make up some without Dusty giving all those ABs to the likes of Perez and Bynum. Our offense will be better than last year's, but last year's was terrible (ahead of only Pittsburgh), and St. Louis's offense was 6th in the NL. I think the Cubs move up, and finish maybe 8th or 10th in the NL, with St. Louis about where they were last year.

[CubColtPacer]

How is it the cardinal can come to ST with 1 starter and the rest rookies with not even a half year under their belt and junk, and cardinals fans can be happy with that?

 

That be like us having a plan for this rotation. . .

 

Zambrano

Hill

Marshall

Guzman

and Rusch

 

And just expecting everone to step up and be great, or acceptable.

 

The Cards score more runs than the Cubs. Their rotation can afford to be worse than ours. Also, 2/5 of our rotation is composed of an injury riddled Miller/Prior and Jason Marquis. After losing Weaver and Suppan, their rotation will probably not match last year's, however, and the Cards haven't really added much on offense or pitching wise, other than the aforementioned Wilson. The Cubs should have a somewhat better starting rotation but the Cards should have a significantly better offense. Honestly, everyone in the central looks pretty mediocre at this point (save the Pirates, who still suck, and Houston, who will only have a shot if Clemens comes back again). I think everybody other than those two teams could win the division if things break their way. It will probably come down to who is healthier.

 

I'm going to need some convincing that the Cardinals offense is even slightly better than the Cubs, never mind significantly better.

 

 

 

Their approach to the rotation should be familiar, because it's what we've done the past few years with a different variable. Instead of "if these guys stay healthy" it's "if these young guys progress/if duncan can turn these guys around".

 

They scored around 65 more runs than us last season, despite Edmonds being injured for a good part of the season. We've added Soriano and subtracted Pierre for an upgrade, but everything else has been kind of a lateral move. DeRosa may or may not be better than Todd Walker offensively. Izturis is no better than Cedeno or Perez offensively. If Lee stays healthy, we'll be better at 2 positions. We may make up some without Dusty giving all those ABs to the likes of Perez and Bynum. Our offense will be better than last year's, but last year's was terrible (ahead of only Pittsburgh), and St. Louis's offense was 6th in the NL. I think the Cubs move up, and finish maybe 8th or 10th in the NL, with St. Louis about where they were last year.

 

If you go position by position though, it doesn't work out so well. The Cubs have Izturis while the Cardinals have Molina-that's a wash. DeRosa and Kennedy are probably about the same. That leaves

Lee, Aramis, Soriano, Jones, Barrett, Murton vs Pujols, Rolen, Edmonds, Duncan, Encarnacion (am I missing a Cardinal OF), Eckstein

 

Pujols is easily the best on that list-but Encarnacion and Eckstein are worse than any of the Cubs hitters as well. I'd take those Cub 6 hitters vs the Cardinals 6.

Edited February 1, 2007 by CubColtPacer