Andruw Jones and Adam LaRoche reportedly on the trade block

[goonys evil twin]

I'd rather keep the young talent. The Cubs just spent out the backside in FA to keep our young guys. Switching strategies mid-stream is a good way to end up with a horrible team in '09 and beyond (backloaded contracts and little quality ML ready talent in the pipeline).

 

A. Jones is a good player, but he's not the right fit for us, especially with Pie looking to man CF for years to come.

 

If traded for wisely, A. Jones makes this team a contender NOW, playing any of the OF positions. Pie is still a huge gamble. CF is a gaping hole on this team right now, and they need another big hitter desperately.

 

If the cubs were wise they would just platoon Jacque. The difference in the production of a platooned Jacque and Andruw Jones is surely smaller than the value of Pie et al. CF is not a gaping hole on this team, SS is.

 

I agree that a platooned Jacque would be a great option in CF, however, it does not appear that the Cubs have any plans to attempt such a platoon this year. This is why CF is a gaping hole on this team. The fact that SS is also a gaping hole just makes it all the more important to solve the CF problem.

[BigbadB]

Agreed. And that sounded a lot like what Hendry had in mind going into this offseason. He mumbled something about getting two starting pitchers and two impact bats. So far, he has 2 starting pitchers and 1 impact bat.

 

I like the Iowa Cubs and all, but I'd rather see a championship at the major league level than at AAA. Trade what is necessary to get that one last impact bat.

 

While I'm a fan of the prospects and am very interested in Marmol, Guzman, Marshall and Mateo, the next generation looks just as promising with Veal, Gallagher and Pawelek just to name a few, and with a few surprises that may not yet have surfaced.

 

There is plenty of depth in the rotation and in the bullpen, and actually the bullpen has one too many guys. Atlanta wants bullpen help. Andruw Jones will be a type "A" free agent, so there will be compensation when he leaves after this year.

 

While I have been pretty much opposed to another 1 year rental, I'm not opposed to it anymore if it means starting the season with the line up as it's currently constructed, or is the line up currently constructed with Andruw Jones.

 

Andruw Jones in the heart of the line up would put this team ahead of all the other teams in the NL Central, and would be very close to NYM in terms of best team in the NL.

 

Tampa needs pitching and we can give Atlanta the pitching necessary to get Baldelli and turn Jones to Chicago.

 

While it wouldn't be the way I would have orchestrated the Cubs offseason, I would definitely increase Hendry's grade to an A+ if he got Andruw Jones.

[Backtobanks]

ATL needs a replacement for AJones, and bullpen help.

TB needs young arms.

Cubs need a CF.

 

ATL: Baldelli, Ohman

TB: Marshall + Guzman/Marmol/Gallagher/Veal

Cubs: AJones

 

Getting Baldelli and Ohman for AJones seems decent, with Jones' FA only a year out.

 

TB is freeing up their OF logjam a bit, and getting 2 quality ML-ready (or near ready) arms.

 

Cubs dip into their pool of young pitching for another impact bat.

 

Then turn around and deal Jacque Jones for prospect(s) to replenish the minor league pitching depth a bit.

 

While I would love to have Andruw Jones, why don't we just trade Marshall + Guzman/Marmol/Gallagher/Veal for Baldelli and we get to keep Ohman.

If Pie is everything he's cracked up to be (in 2008), we can get top value for either Baldelli or Murton in a trade.

[goonys evil twin]

I'd rather keep the young talent. The Cubs just spent out the backside in FA to keep our young guys. Switching strategies mid-stream is a good way to end up with a horrible team in '09 and beyond (backloaded contracts and little quality ML ready talent in the pipeline).

 

A. Jones is a good player, but he's not the right fit for us, especially with Pie looking to man CF for years to come.

 

If traded for wisely, A. Jones makes this team a contender NOW, playing any of the OF positions. Pie is still a huge gamble. CF is a gaping hole on this team right now, and they need another big hitter desperately.

 

Jones in CF doesn't make this team a contender. The only thing that will make us a contender are the successes of Hill and Prior. A CF, even one as good as Jones, doesn't make enough of a difference offensively to overcome a rotation of 1 ace, a #3 (Lilly), and some veteran projects (Marquis and Miller).

 

Well, if Hill completely bombs, that would hurt. But the pitching is probably set, and the team needs to settle the CF as well as they can to help their chances in 2007. An offense that includes Jones in CF could make this a top 3 offense in the NL, which would go a long way toward overcoming even an average pitching staff. You are right that not much would overcome a disaster in the staff, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't improve the offense.

[BigbadB]

Jones in CF doesn't make this team a contender. The only thing that will make us a contender are the successes of Hill and Prior. A CF, even one as good as Jones, doesn't make enough of a difference offensively to overcome a rotation of 1 ace, a #3 (Lilly), and some veteran projects (Marquis and Miller).

 

I disagree. While the successes of Hill and Prior are important, there is a whole stable of young pitchers that can fill in and possibly be very successful given another opportunity and more time in AAA.

 

You pretty much know what you are getting with Zambrano and Lilly. Hill should be pretty good, and even if he's not as good as he was in the 2nd half last season, there's no reason to believe he can't do as well as Lilly. Between Prior, Miller, Marquis and whoever remains out of Marmol, Marshall, Guzman and Mateo in the trade for Jones should be plenty of depth to draw from to fill the last 2 spots.

 

The Cubs would have to be the worlds most unlucky team in the world if all those arms had back to back bad seasons. Oh wait, this is the Cubs we're talking about.........

 

Anyway, I do believe that the pitching will be pretty solid this year throughout the rotation. The strong bullpen will also help the starters out. More than anything at this point is the necessity of another impact bat.

[BigbadB]

While I would love to have Andruw Jones, why don't we just trade Marshall + Guzman/Marmol/Gallagher/Veal for Baldelli and we get to keep Ohman.

If Pie is everything he's cracked up to be (in 2008), we can get top value for either Baldelli or Murton in a trade.

 

I'd be fine with Baldelli, too. However, I don't think Tampa wants guys who are not ready to pitch in the majors now. They really seem to want guys who can step in now, which is why Chuck James seems to be their prime interest. That eliminates Gallagher and Veal from the equation. Whether the others are enough to interest them, I'm not so sure.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'd rather keep the young talent. The Cubs just spent out the backside in FA to keep our young guys. Switching strategies mid-stream is a good way to end up with a horrible team in '09 and beyond (backloaded contracts and little quality ML ready talent in the pipeline).

 

A. Jones is a good player, but he's not the right fit for us, especially with Pie looking to man CF for years to come.

 

If traded for wisely, A. Jones makes this team a contender NOW, playing any of the OF positions. Pie is still a huge gamble. CF is a gaping hole on this team right now, and they need another big hitter desperately.

 

Jones in CF doesn't make this team a contender. The only thing that will make us a contender are the successes of Hill and Prior. A CF, even one as good as Jones, doesn't make enough of a difference offensively to overcome a rotation of 1 ace, a #3 (Lilly), and some veteran projects (Marquis and Miller).

 

I'm obviously not equating Jones into somehow magically fixing the pitching staff. If you wanted me to be specific and say "offensive contenders," fine, there. The starting rotation potentially sucking doesn't mean we ignore the rest of the flaws.

[Soul]

I guess I don't understand applying logic that assumes the Cubs have any kind of spending limit to what we do personnel-wise.

 

I mean, 9 months ago the assumption was millions and millions lower that what it turned out to be. I don't think the Cubs have any practical limit, any more than the Yankees or the Red Sox do. There would seem to me to be little reason why the Cubs couldn't acquire Andrew Jones if a good deal came along----at least not solely on the salary grounds, or the idea that contracts will be "bad" down the line. Define bad contracts when there's no limit to the amount of money the Trib can spend.

[Sammy Sofa]

I guess I don't understand applying logic that assumes the Cubs have any kind of spending limit to what we do personnel-wise.

 

I mean, 9 months ago the assumption was millions and millions lower that what it turned out to be. I don't think the Cubs have any practical limit, any more than the Yankees or the Red Sox do. There would seem to me to be little reason why the Cubs couldn't acquire Andrew Jones if a good deal came along----at least not solely on the salary grounds, or the idea that contracts will be "bad" down the line. Define bad contracts when there's no limit to the amount of money the Trib can spend.

 

Exactly. Aim for the sky and sort it out when the season gets close. I'd like to be in the situation, just once, where we're having trouble finding room for the quality players. That means the time will likely be winning and they can trade some spare parts to stock up the farm or tighten up for a playoff run. There's no excuse for Hendry to not be aiming for Jones short of the cost being absurdly high talent-wise.

[nilodnayr]

ATL needs a replacement for AJones, and bullpen help.

TB needs young arms.

Cubs need a CF.

 

ATL: Baldelli, Ohman

TB: Marshall + Guzman/Marmol/Gallagher/Veal

Cubs: AJones

 

Getting Baldelli and Ohman for AJones seems decent, with Jones' FA only a year out.

 

TB is freeing up their OF logjam a bit, and getting 2 quality ML-ready (or near ready) arms.

 

Cubs dip into their pool of young pitching for another impact bat.

 

Then turn around and deal Jacque Jones for prospect(s) to replenish the minor league pitching depth a bit.

 

Thats a worse offer for TB than what they already have on the table from the Braves (Davies and LaRoche).

I don't recall seeing rumors with LaRoche included.

 

I thought the DRays wanted James, and the Braves countered with Davies, to go along with Salty and/or Yunel Escobar.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061208&content_id=1754894&vkey=hotstove2006&fext=.jsp

 

In this deal I laid out, the DRays get more of what they need most (pitching), and skip on parts they can do without (C, SS).

 

I stand corrected, and while I agree that Zobrist makes Escobar basically a useless chip (of course he could always be spun elsewhere), I don't think we can underestimate Salty's presence. We, nor any organization in baseball, has a chip like him. I don't think the Rays are counting on Navarro to be their catcher of the future.

[BigbadB]

I stand corrected, and while I agree that Zobrist makes Escobar basically a useless chip (of course he could always be spun elsewhere), I don't think we can underestimate Salty's presence. We, nor any organization in baseball, has a chip like him. I don't think the Rays are counting on Navarro to be their catcher of the future.

 

I was corrected on this recently as well, so I feel it is my duty to do the same to you. :D You know, that whole do unto others.......

 

UK corrected me that Reid Brignac is currently one of the top SS in the minors and in the Tampa Bay organization, which essentially makes Zobrist a useless chip above the useless chip that Escobar would be. But, if they don't want Zobrist, can we have him?

[RynoHawk]

How do we know druw even wants to come to chicago? He has a no trade veto in his back pocket and I have heard he hates cold weather. I would love to get him but I don't think realistically it will or could happen.

[nilodnayr]

I stand corrected, and while I agree that Zobrist makes Escobar basically a useless chip (of course he could always be spun elsewhere), I don't think we can underestimate Salty's presence. We, nor any organization in baseball, has a chip like him. I don't think the Rays are counting on Navarro to be their catcher of the future.

 

I was corrected on this recently as well, so I feel it is my duty to do the same to you. :D You know, that whole do unto others.......

 

UK corrected me that Reid Brignac is currently one of the top SS in the minors and in the Tampa Bay organization, which essentially makes Zobrist a useless chip above the useless chip that Escobar would be. But, if they don't want Zobrist, can we have him?

 

Ahh yes, thanks. Its tough to keep track of the 87 quality DRays position prospects.

[NorthsideAvenger]

How do we know druw even wants to come to chicago? He has a no trade veto in his back pocket and I have heard he hates cold weather. I would love to get him but I don't think realistically it will or could happen.

 

Two words: Free Agency.

 

AJ knows he has the chance to put up some monster numbers with Soriano/Murton/Lee hitting in front of him and ARam hitting behind him, at plus hitting at Wrigley. He could approach 45 hrs and 120 + rbis in his WALK YR, something he might not be able to approach in ATL.

[Elrhino]

Jones has been "on the block" forever, but Jones and Boras have emphatically said, repeatedly, that they will not wave his no trade clause. The only time they've wavered even the slightest is when the Dodgers were mentioned.

[RynoRules]

Jones has been "on the block" forever, but Jones and Boras have emphatically said, repeatedly, that they will not wave his no trade clause. The only time they've wavered even the slightest is when the Dodgers were mentioned.

 

Bet they'd change their tune if he were offered an extension for Wells-like money.

[nilodnayr]

Jones has been "on the block" forever, but Jones and Boras have emphatically said, repeatedly, that they will not wave his no trade clause. The only time they've wavered even the slightest is when the Dodgers were mentioned.

 

Bet they'd change their tune if he were offered an extension for Wells-like money.

 

Which is something we absolutely know the cubs will not do.

[rawaction]

Jones has been "on the block" forever, but Jones and Boras have emphatically said, repeatedly, that they will not wave his no trade clause. The only time they've wavered even the slightest is when the Dodgers were mentioned.

 

Bet they'd change their tune if he were offered an extension for Wells-like money.

 

Which is something we absolutely know the cubs will not do.

 

What makes you think that?

[nilodnayr]

Jones has been "on the block" forever, but Jones and Boras have emphatically said, repeatedly, that they will not wave his no trade clause. The only time they've wavered even the slightest is when the Dodgers were mentioned.

 

Bet they'd change their tune if he were offered an extension for Wells-like money.

 

Which is something we absolutely know the cubs will not do.

 

What makes you think that?

 

Jim Hendry saying that he does not want to acquire a long term solution for CF.

[Elrhino]

Jones has been "on the block" forever, but Jones and Boras have emphatically said, repeatedly, that they will not wave his no trade clause. The only time they've wavered even the slightest is when the Dodgers were mentioned.

 

Bet they'd change their tune if he were offered an extension for Wells-like money.

 

Maybe, but they're going to get their money anyway. Boras isn't one to sign an extension when he can squeeze out every dollar he can from the open market.

[Soul]

If Hendry won't acquire a long term CF option, then I guess we're down to hoping for Brady Clark.

 

Ick.

[nilodnayr]

If Hendry won't acquire a long term CF option, then I guess we're down to hoping for Brady Clark.

 

Ick.

 

Although there hasn't been talk in a while, I don't think it takes Church out of the mix as we were previously pursuing him.

[davearm]

This whole Andruw Jones thing's got me thinking.

 

I know this will never ever happen, but imagine...

 

Murton is used as the centerpiece for AJones, along with, say, Howry and Marshall. Maybe it's a three-way deal, since Murton might not be what ATL really is after.

 

For 2007...

Sign Floyd to play LF

Keep JJones in RF and AJones in CF

Ask Soriano to move back to 2B for a year (here's the most unrealistic part)

Ask DeRosa to move around -- platoon with Jones in RF vs LHP, keep Floyd fresh once or twice a week in LF, play 2B once a month, 3B once a month.

 

For 2008 and beyond...

Phase Pie into CF; phase JJones out

Phase EPat into 2B, move Soriano to LF, phase Floyd out

Re-sign AJones and transition him to RF

Keep DeRosa in the superutility role

 

Both scenarios give you 2 LHH and 2 RHH, between 2B and OF ==> lineup balance achieved (or at least improved).

[CubsInNC]

This whole Andruw Jones thing's got me thinking.

 

I know this will never ever happen, but imagine...

 

Murton is used as the centerpiece for AJones, along with, say, Howry and Marshall. Maybe it's a three-way deal, since Murton might not be what ATL really is after.

 

For 2007...

Sign Floyd to play LF

Keep JJones in RF and AJones in CF

Ask Soriano to move back to 2B for a year (here's the most unrealistic part)

Ask DeRosa to move around -- platoon with Jones in RF vs LHP, keep Floyd fresh once or twice a week in LF, play 2B once a month, 3B once a month.

 

For 2008 and beyond...

Phase Pie into CF; phase JJones out

Phase EPat into 2B, move Soriano to LF, phase Floyd out

Re-sign AJones and transition him to RF

Keep DeRosa in the superutility role

 

Both scenarios give you 2 LHH and 2 RHH, between 2B and OF ==> lineup balance achieved (or at least improved).

 

For your 2007, why sign Floyd? JJones-AJones-Soriano would be a better and more productive OF than Floyd/Injury Sub(Pagan/Roster Filler/Ward)-AJones-JJones. Then after 2007, Soriano wouldn't have to move positions, something the Cubs have come right out and said they wouldn't make him do. Pie steps in and plays CF, and Andruw Jones can play LF, or walk and we get a 1st round pick, and a supplemental pick.

 

As much as I may hate it, we didn't sign Derosa to the deal we did to have him play supersub. They'll give him every opportunity to start every day. Part of me wonders if they want him as Murton insurance as well, should he stumble or be traded this year, they could put Derosa in LF and have someone else at 2B.

[davearm]

This whole Andruw Jones thing's got me thinking.

 

I know this will never ever happen, but imagine...

 

Murton is used as the centerpiece for AJones, along with, say, Howry and Marshall. Maybe it's a three-way deal, since Murton might not be what ATL really is after.

 

For 2007...

Sign Floyd to play LF

Keep JJones in RF and AJones in CF

Ask Soriano to move back to 2B for a year (here's the most unrealistic part)

Ask DeRosa to move around -- platoon with Jones in RF vs LHP, keep Floyd fresh once or twice a week in LF, play 2B once a month, 3B once a month.

 

For 2008 and beyond...

Phase Pie into CF; phase JJones out

Phase EPat into 2B, move Soriano to LF, phase Floyd out

Re-sign AJones and transition him to RF

Keep DeRosa in the superutility role

 

Both scenarios give you 2 LHH and 2 RHH, between 2B and OF ==> lineup balance achieved (or at least improved).

 

For your 2007, why sign Floyd? JJones-AJones-Soriano would be a better and more productive OF than Floyd/Injury Sub(Pagan/Roster Filler/Ward)-AJones-JJones. Then after 2007, Soriano wouldn't have to move positions, something the Cubs have come right out and said they wouldn't make him do. Pie steps in and plays CF, and Andruw Jones can play LF, or walk and we get a 1st round pick, and a supplemental pick.

 

As much as I may hate it, we didn't sign Derosa to the deal we did to have him play supersub. They'll give him every opportunity to start every day. Part of me wonders if they want him as Murton insurance as well, should he stumble or be traded this year, they could put Derosa in LF and have someone else at 2B.

The point was to shoehorn 5 legit bats (DeRosa being #5) into 4 slots.

 

Your plan would have 4 bats for 4 slots, and Pagan or whomever getting regular ABs at the first hint of trouble.

 

I like my depth and rotation better. But as I said, the Soriano at 2B part ensures that it'd never get off the ground.