Pie is number 17, oh no!!

[Handlebar McSkullet]

The Cubs gave Pie a big boy number this year, the problem is it is 17!!! Mark Grace's old number. And while im not saying it should be retired, I feel like it is a cursed number. I remember the last prized prospect who wore 17, Bobby Hill, and he didnt work out that well.

[Jehrico]

The Cubs gave Pie a big boy number this year, the problem is it is 17!!! Mark Grace's old number. And while im not saying it should be retired, I feel like it is a cursed number. I remember the last prized prospect who wore 17, Bobby Hill, and he didnt work out that well.

Sure he did, for us anyways. Maybe not so well for Pittsburgh. He netted us Aramis. I would be thrilled to see us develop a position prospect that turns out as good as Aramis. I'd also be more than happy if we could trade Pie for someone with a bat as big as Aramis's. Bobby Hill and Hee Seop Choi turned into perhaps the most outstanding pair of corner infielders in the league.

[Brian]

I'm sure it could change rather quickly, as The Riot's had 3 big league numbers already.

[bhogg]

http://img.coxnewsweb.com/B/06/48/83/image_4683486.jpg

 

"ha ha ha. You mean they gave YOU number 17?"

[Roast]

I dont think Grace is a HOF'er. A fan favorite, yes. A HOF'er (or even close), No.

 

I dont see the big deal about wearing 17. Its not in the same league as 26,14,10,21, and 31.

 

EDIT: I just looked at his numbers and I retract my previous statement about him not being HOF material. .303/.383/.825 career line? wow.

[XZero771679666304]

I dont think Grace is a HOF'er. A fan favorite, yes. A HOF'er (or even close), No.

 

I dont see the big deal about wearing 17. Its not in the same league as 26,14,10,21, and 31.

 

EDIT: I just looked at his numbers and I retract my previous statement about him not being HOF material. .303/.383/.825 career line? wow.

 

IIRC, Grace had more hits in the 90's than any other player in the game during that period.

 

I could be wrong, though.

[goonys evil twin]

I dont think Grace is a HOF'er. A fan favorite, yes. A HOF'er (or even close), No.

 

I dont see the big deal about wearing 17. Its not in the same league as 26,14,10,21, and 31.

 

EDIT: I just looked at his numbers and I retract my previous statement about him not being HOF material. .303/.383/.825 career line? wow.

 

IIRC, Grace had more hits in the 90's than any other player in the game during that period.

 

I could be wrong, though.

 

That is true, but still doesn't make him hall worthy.

[Garwilly]

I dont think Grace is a HOF'er. A fan favorite, yes. A HOF'er (or even close), No.

 

I dont see the big deal about wearing 17. Its not in the same league as 26,14,10,21, and 31.

 

EDIT: I just looked at his numbers and I retract my previous statement about him not being HOF material. .303/.383/.825 career line? wow.

 

IIRC, Grace had more hits in the 90's than any other player in the game during that period.

 

I could be wrong, though.

 

That is true, but still doesn't make him hall worthy.

 

He also had more doubles than anyone in the 90's as well.

[BigbadB]

I don't see Grace making it. I think he comes up short in the power category for the power position he played.

[UK1679666180]

He played in the same era as Thome, McGwire, Palmiero, Thomas, Bagwell, McGriff, etc. at 1B.

 

He'll never be considered a HOF candidate.

 

 

Also, Olerud and Will Clark have better chances than Grace.

[XZero771679666304]

I dont think Grace is a HOF'er. A fan favorite, yes. A HOF'er (or even close), No.

 

I dont see the big deal about wearing 17. Its not in the same league as 26,14,10,21, and 31.

 

EDIT: I just looked at his numbers and I retract my previous statement about him not being HOF material. .303/.383/.825 career line? wow.

 

IIRC, Grace had more hits in the 90's than any other player in the game during that period.

 

I could be wrong, though.

 

That is true, but still doesn't make him hall worthy.

 

I didn't say it did. But he was a better hitter than most realize.

 

 

As UK pointed out, there were too many good 1B playing during the same time as Grace for him to even be considered.

[goonys evil twin]

 

 

I didn't say it did. But he was a better hitter than most realize.

 

 

As UK pointed out, there were too many good 1B playing during the same time as Grace for him to even be considered.

 

I don't think he was better than most realize. Everybody knows the hits/90's stat, it was reported ad nauseum. People have a good handle on what he was, a nice hitter, but a complementary guy at best. He provided very good AVG/OBP, but was lacking in the SLG, you needed to make up for his lack of power elsewhere in the lineup. He was like the opposite of Andre Dawson, who had the power, but not the OBP. Consistently well above average players that didn't have a whole lot of greatness in their overall games.

[UK1679666180]

2 more names, while I'm reflecting back 10 years ago.

 

 

Mo Vaughn, Galarraga.

[bhogg]

 

I dont see the big deal about wearing 17. Its not in the same league as 26,14,10,21, and 31.

 

 

Ahem

 

http://media.theinsiders.com/Media/MLB/56419_Sandberg012504.JPG

[XZero771679666304]

 

 

I didn't say it did. But he was a better hitter than most realize.

 

 

As UK pointed out, there were too many good 1B playing during the same time as Grace for him to even be considered.

 

I don't think he was better than most realize. Everybody knows the hits/90's stat, it was reported ad nauseum. People have a good handle on what he was, a nice hitter, but a complementary guy at best. He provided very good AVG/OBP, but was lacking in the SLG, you needed to make up for his lack of power elsewhere in the lineup. He was like the opposite of Andre Dawson, who had the power, but not the OBP. Consistently well above average players that didn't have a whole lot of greatness in their overall games.

 

Most long time Cubs fans realize how good a hitter he was, but not really anyone else.

 

He wasn't a HOF'er, not close. But he was better than a "nice" hitter. In that 10 year stretch, he hit over .300 eight times, three times .325 or better. Most of the time, he maintained a 2:1 BB/K ratio. He hit a lot of doubles, and drove in a fair amount of runs, considering his lack of power.

 

The problem was his position, and rightfully so. His production pales in comparison to some of his peers. If Mark had been a CF, SS or 2B, he'd be looked upon much differently.

 

I also think the fact that he is a jerk doesn't help him any.

[BigbadB]

A guy who hits like Grace almost needs to top 3000 hits for any consideration, IMO.

 

He reminded me a lot of George Brett and Wade Boggs with the sweet swing, but Grace didn't get anywhere close to 3000.

 

Agreed that it would have helped his cause if he played a different position, but it still might not be enough.

[bhogg]

The all-time ML slump buster record means nothing?

 

No way he's a hall of famer. All time great Cub, you betcha.

[Yeti]

 

I dont see the big deal about wearing 17. Its not in the same league as 26,14,10,21, and 31.

 

 

Ahem

 

http://media.theinsiders.com/Media/MLB/56419_Sandberg012504.JPG

 

sure am glad someone pointed that out or i was gonna have to

[Derwood]

OMG, MCDONOUGH IS A HUGE DOUCHE BAG FOR GIVING AWAY SUCH A SACRED (YET NOT RETIRED) NUMBER!

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I dont think Grace is a HOF'er. A fan favorite, yes. A HOF'er (or even close), No.

 

I dont see the big deal about wearing 17. Its not in the same league as 26,14,10,21, and 31.

 

EDIT: I just looked at his numbers and I retract my previous statement about him not being HOF material. .303/.383/.825 career line? wow.

 

IIRC, Grace had more hits in the 90's than any other player in the game during that period.

 

I could be wrong, though.

 

He also led the league in slumpbusting.

[goonys evil twin]

A guy who hits like Grace almost needs to top 3000 hits for any consideration, IMO.

 

He reminded me a lot of George Brett and Wade Boggs with the sweet swing, but Grace didn't get anywhere close to 3000.

 

Agreed that it would have helped his cause if he played a different position, but it still might not be enough.

 

If he played SS he'd definitely be HOF worthy.

[A New Era]

I know I'm not supposed to be here. But ### damnit people, is this a PIE thread or a mark grace thread? Maybe we can change the name of the topic, or get back on topic?

[goonys evil twin]

It's a Pie and the number 17 thread, which inevitably includes discussion about Mark Grace.

[bhogg]

care to help me move?

 

http://www.cantstopthebleeding.com/img/seinfeld_hernandez.jpg[/img]

[NorthsideAvenger]

What is the definition of Hall of Fame?

 

If Gary Carter (.262/.335/.439) and Bill Mazeroski (.260/.299/.367) are HOFers, then Mark Grace (.303/.383/.442), compare to those numbers, would be a LOCK for the HOF. And yes, I am in favor of stripping Mazeroski of his HOF title, seeing as HE ISN'T A HOFer. And yes, I don't think Grace is a HOF, but if you used the measuring stick to allow Mazeroski and Carter in, then Grace is a HOF.

 

With that said, if baseball wants to continue to induct not even average players in the Hall, then they need to create a special group that belongs ONLY to the elite of the HOF, ie Aaron/Ruth/Gehrig/Gibson, etc,etc. Cause there is no way Bill Mazeroski/Gary Carter are the same caliber HOFer as Ruth/Aaron/Cobb/Gehrig, etc, etc.