Cubs sign Cliff Floyd?

[craig]

I think adding Floyd is interesting and appeealing on two levels.

 

1) Floyd has often been a very good hitter, especially against RHP. Murton has been really good against LHP. You've got a real shot that the Combo will be an .850+ OPS in LF. There's a chance that each of your four corners could produce in the .850-.950 range. Add in Barrett, who's well above catcher average offensively, and you've got the components of a really good offense, even if CF/SS/2B aren't much.

 

2) Many of you are mostly prioritized about Murton. I think that adding Floyd in a sense is good for Murton. Almost certain fact: Cubs have no interest in Jones in center. And, IMO, for good reason. I live in Minnesota and remember when he was both a rising prospect and a young player with the Twins. Everybody in the Twins org thought he was a defensive liability in CF then, that he was really a corner outfielder. During the many years since he did play center, he's gotten a lot stronger (HR-wise), but in the process he's gotten a lot bigger and slower. He was viewed as a bad defensive CF then; now that he's lost a lot of speed, now that he hasn't played the position in years, and now that he has no arm, he's was less likely to be able to play the bad-but-not-quite-horrific CF that he could play when he was young.

 

How does Jones no-CF relate to Floyd helping Murton? Right now, Murton stands in a LF time-share with Jones. Jones is an established player, and he's healthy and a reasonable defensive LF (other than the throwing). If Murton shares left with Jones, I expect that Jones is going to be written in every day vs RHP, he'll probable do fine at that (his 3-4-year OPS vs RHP is .800+), and Murton will likely be limited to a pretty strict platoon. But if Floyd is added, then it's pretty clear that Jones will *not* be playing left. He'll be traded, almost for certain. And if not, they'll need to compromise and decide to stick Soriano in center after all. It's not going to be Jones, I can guarantee you that.

 

So, if Murton is sharing left with Floyd or Jones, which would give him more chance to play and which would give him less? to me, it seems certain that Murton would have more chance to get AB's with Floyd. Floyd is often injured. Floyd is often rotten defensively. Floyd had a bat year last year, and may well perform worse than Murton even if he isn't hurt. Floyd's contract and the understanding upon signing him is that he'd be a situational player, not guaranteed full-time action. Jones, when he signed he was prett much guaranteed that he'd be a primary starter. To take that away, that's not going to happen.

 

So, I think Floyd pickup could be good for both Cubs and for Murton.

[CubinNY]

 

. . . platoon Floyd/Murton in LF with Soriano in RF.

 

In the immortal words of Nacny Kerrigan, "Why? Why? Why?"

[Andy]

Waste of money. How about a CF?

[goonys evil twin]

So, if Murton is sharing left with Floyd or Jones, which would give him more chance to play and which would give him less?

 

That's assuming the only option is to have Murton share time with somebody in LF. That might be the case in Hendry's eye, but in reality, it is not.

 

But you are right, as far as Murton's playing time is concerned, it's much better he platoon with Floyd than Jones.

[samhainn77]

If Hendry wants to platoon Floyd, here's an idea, sign Craig Wilson to platoon in RF with Floyd and move Soriano to CF. Murton plays everyday in LF, Jones gets traded, and Floyd/Wilson gives you great production in RF and strengthens the bench.

 

Yes please...this would work fine or better using Jones instead of Floyd, but whatever. If Hendry is hellbent on Floyd, might as well salvage something out of it.

 

Better yet: Keep Jones, Sign Floyd to a small base contract, Sign Wilson, Put Soriano in CF.

 

Soriano CF

Murton LF

Lee 1B

Ramirez 3B

Jones/Wilson RF

Barrett C

DeRosa 2B

Izturis SS

 

Bench: Theriot, Ward, Jones/Wilson, Floyd, Blanco

 

That's a much better team than we are currently looking at. That lineup might actually score some runs.

[craig]

Two other notes:

1) We'll see about this Floyd stuff. Seems the Cubs have supposedly been "close" to signing Floyd for about 6 weeks. I wouldn't assume this is any different.

 

2) If you did sign Floyd, what in the world would you do with Jones? I know: trade him. (Actually, I know all of you guys would play him in center, or play Soriano in center and Jones in right. So I should have said, "what in the world would Hendry do with Jones", given that Hendry does *not* want either Jones or Soriano in center.)

 

To trade Jones this late, what would you trade him for? The roster is almost all completed. The pitching staff is already complete; you aren't going to trade Jones for a relief pitcher (why?), and the kind of starter you could get for Jones would be worse than about 9 other candidates, if all of our candidates are semi-healthy.

 

You aren't going to trade Jones for an infielder. Infield is set, plus Theriot as utility guy, and to some degree Cedeno as a reserve at Iowa in case of injury. To trade Jones for some 6th infielder utility Macias type, that doesn't really equate.

 

If you have Floyd and Murton for left, and Soriano for left, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to trade Jones for a corner outfielder, either. Why? the notion of trading a corner outfielder for a corner outfielder, that doesn't equate either.

 

Really the only thing you'd want to trade him for is a CF. Well, maybe that could still happen. Shoot, Jones for Church might not be that far from an equal value exchange. But, finding a fair-value CF-for-Jones trade is pretty tough to come up with, and if there was one, a guy Hendry likes who's CF surplus on a team that likes Jones and would make the deal, that obviously hasn't happened or Jones would have been traded for that CF weeks ago.

 

Maybe yet a CF deal will work out.

 

But otherwise, it looks to me like if you're going to trade Jones, it's going to end up being just a Jones-for-prospect trade. That might be interesting, but it may not be much fun, and seems contrary to Hendry's priority on building the 2007 team. Trading Jones for futures doesn't seem like the original plan, that's for sure. Plus, the 40-man is pretty snug. Well, not prohibitively. If you sign Floyd but trade Jones, you'd still have at least Coats to drop is you added one roster prospect, and Dopirak as well in the unlikely event you added two.

 

But, it looks to me like jones for the best prospect(s) you can get is basically all we're likely to get back.

[cheapseats]

If Floyd is signed:

 

1) Even if Floyd were to begin the season platooning with Murton, it wouldn't mean the Cubs had to do so all year. The Blue Jays, for example, began the season with platoons in both left field and right field before giving the fulltime jobs to Reed Johnson and Alex Rios. If Murton dominates in the early part of the year, the Floyd signing wouldn't prohibit him from playing every day.

 

2) As I've suggested elsewhere, there's little reason to expect a spike in power from Murton unless he changes his swing. ZIPS and CHONE both project Floyd to have a higher OPS than Murton next year.

 

3) I love Floyd as a hitter off the bench.

 

4) Maybe adding Floyd means the Cubs can get rid of Angel Pagan.

[goonys evil twin]

If Floyd is signed:

 

1) Even if Floyd were to begin the season platooning with Murton, it wouldn't mean the Cubs had to do so all year. The Blue Jays, for example, began the season with platoons in both left field and right field before giving the fulltime jobs to Reed Johnson and Alex Rios. If Murton dominates in the early part of the year, the Floyd signing wouldn't prohibit him from playing every day.

 

2) As I've suggested elsewhere, there's little reason to expect a spike in power from Murton unless he changes his swing. ZIPS and CHONE both project Floyd to have a higher OPS than Murton next year.

 

3) I love Floyd as a hitter off the bench.

 

4) Maybe adding Floyd means the Cubs can get rid of Angel Pagan.

 

Even though they wouldn't have to keep platooning him, the concern is that an old school guy like Piniella, who didn't have a problem keeping aging veterans on the field in Tampa, would keep trotting Floyd out there even if Murton is outplaying him. I don't have a problem with Floyd, because it can be used properly and effectively. The key, however, is cutting bait with Floyd if he's doing no better than Murton, and not simply putting him out there just because a RHP is on the mound.

 

 

I don't think Floyd would have any effect on Pagan. Pagan's future probably depends on what happens with CF. If it's Pie, or some questionable CF, then Pagan probably stays as backup/defensive replacement/insurance. If they acquire a legit everyday CF, then Pagan may be the odd man out.

[CubinNY]

Even though they wouldn't have to keep platooning him, the concern is that an old school guy like Piniella, who didn't have a problem keeping aging veterans on the field in Tampa, would keep trotting Floyd out there even if Murton is outplaying him. I don't have a problem with Floyd, because it can be used properly and effectively. The key, however, is cutting bait with Floyd if he's doing no better than Murton, and not simply putting him out there just because a RHP is on the mound.

 

Floyd is an incredibly streaky hitter. I could see Lou sticking with him through the cold streaks.

 

I have hope that Lou will know how to use Floyd correctly.

[CubsWin]

what is tinyurl.com? and how is it affiliated with the tribune? If you go to the trib's site, there is no mention of any floyd story.

Its there.

 

If you click on "Cubs" in the left-hand margin, its the 2nd article down.

[goonys evil twin]

what is tinyurl.com? and how is it affiliated with the tribune? If you go to the trib's site, there is no mention of any floyd story.

Its there.

 

If you click on "Cubs" in the left-hand margin, its the 2nd article down.

 

When I do that, the 2nd story is "stopgap CF". I did find it at the bottom, as the last headline under the "more headlines" topic.

 

But seriously, what is tinyurl.com?

[RichHillIsABeast]

I'm not thrilled about the Cubs taking ABs from Murton, but this could be a very good signing for the offense overall. When Murton isn't starting, he's going to be the first option off the bench. If Murton is losing ABs to Floyd, it's b/c Floyd is healthy (unlikely) and mashing the ball. Piniella won't play favorites like Dusty did. Floyd won't play over Murton just to reach his incentives (based on PAs).

 

If Dusty was still at the helm, I'd be furious over this move. Thankfully he's gone.

[cheapseats]

what is tinyurl.com? and how is it affiliated with the tribune? If you go to the trib's site, there is no mention of any floyd story.

Its there.

 

If you click on "Cubs" in the left-hand margin, its the 2nd article down.

 

When I do that, the 2nd story is "stopgap CF". I did find it at the bottom, as the last headline under the "more headlines" topic.

 

But seriously, what is tinyurl.com?

 

It's useful. Read about it:

http://tinyurl.com/

[treebird]

what is tinyurl.com? and how is it affiliated with the tribune? If you go to the trib's site, there is no mention of any floyd story.

Its there.

 

If you click on "Cubs" in the left-hand margin, its the 2nd article down.

 

When I do that, the 2nd story is "stopgap CF". I did find it at the bottom, as the last headline under the "more headlines" topic.

 

But seriously, what is tinyurl.com?

 

it's a website that shortens your link and redirects you to the website you want

 

http://tinyurl.com/

[RynoRules]

Dude, honestly, change your sig. :lol:

[TruffleShuffle]

Dude, honestly, change your sig. :lol:

 

agreed... can't you find a pic with MORE than three shirtless guys plz???

[goonys evil twin]

 

it's a website that shortens your link and redirects you to the website you want

 

http://tinyurl.com/

 

It's useful. Read about it:

http://tinyurl.com/

 

Thanks. Very interesting.

[Balsa]

No updates on this yet? I'm not gonna declare approval until I find out it's not three years, $15 mil.

[YearofDaCubs]

And this is why I'm not considering changing my sig any time soon.

[Soul]

Dude, honestly, change your sig. :lol:

 

agreed... can't you find a pic with MORE than three shirtless guys plz???

 

At least photoshop some Cardinals' logos on them or something :lol:

[RockTheIvy]

 

. . . platoon Floyd/Murton in LF with Soriano in RF.

 

In the immortal words of Nacny Kerrigan, "Why? Why? Why?"

 

Very, very nice!

[b_wiggy_66]

I don't like this deal at all. Murton is our most promising OF and has the most consistent contact bat on the team. I am sick of us not letting young guys play. This is similar to bringing back Hollandsworth to platoon with Dubois. Granted they both stunk, but they had to trot out crappy Hollandsworth all the time. Let the young guys play.

[Jehrico]

Not a very fair way of comparing the two...

 

I don't want Floyd taking any at bats from Murton, but if you're seriously evaluating what you think Floyd can contribute to the team next year, taking one injury riddled year is a pretty myopic way of doing it. Three year splits would probably be more indicative of what to expect than last season, when he was injured most of the time and his production was down as a result.

 

Considering he's one year older, and injuries have always been a problem with him, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect him to perform close to last year's production.

If he's had problems with injuries in the past, then wouldn't his three year splits reflect his usual performance while between injuries? Either way, injury prone or not, three year splits is a much fairer way to evaluate someone, especially when the last year was outside the norm.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Floyd is no deadbeat, cut the guy some slack. He WANTS to play for the Cubs, and he makes the team much deeper. I like Murt, but if Floyd is healthy, I gotta admit a Murton/Floyd platoon would be even more productive, and the bench would be looking quite strong.

 

Now, if Hendry can trade either Murton or Jones and use excess pitching to get a legitimate power OF bat, we would be in great shape at that point. It's still December, and an unusually few number of trades have been made this offseason to date. I'm going to stay optimistic.

 

And btw, when Floyd is healthy, dude really can mash, with better all-around skills then Jock ever dreamed of. Good pickup.

[Soul]

Floyd is no deadbeat, cut the guy some slack. He WANTS to play for the Cubs, and he makes the team much deeper. I like Murt, but if Floyd is healthy, I gotta admit a Murton/Floyd platoon would be even more productive, and the bench would be looking quite strong.

 

Now, if Hendry can trade either Murton or Jones and use excess pitching to get a legitimate power OF bat, we would be in great shape at that point. It's still December, and an unusually few number of trades have been made this offseason to date. I'm going to stay optimistic.

 

And btw, when Floyd is healthy, dude really can mash, with better all-around skills then Jock ever dreamed of. Good pickup.

 

IF. Big ifs.

 

If he can actually put in enough time to make a difference. If his skills haven't diminished. If he is actually signed.