Guzman, Marshall, and Marmol: Rank 'em

[cubs121]

also, all this talk about Guzman, Marmol, and Marshall... Why isnt anyone talking about guys like Gallagher, Veal, Pawalek. If i had to chose right now out of these guys i would probably put Gallagher and Veal atop the list.

 

If we're throwing those guys in...

 

Veal > Gallagher > Guzman > Pawelek > Marmol > Huseby > Marshall > Ryu > Mateo

i see Mateo becoming a reliable fifth starter.. or a relief pitcher, same for Ryu.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

also, all this talk about Guzman, Marmol, and Marshall... Why isnt anyone talking about guys like Gallagher, Veal, Pawalek. If i had to chose right now out of these guys i would probably put Gallagher and Veal atop the list.

 

Because Veal is a season away and Pawelek three seasons away.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Pawelek three seasons away.

 

I just hope he's not on the Ryan Harvey track.

[Guest]

Hey, Samardzija might have the most upside of anyone in the system. All he has to do is give up football. :D

[UK1679666180]

Hey, Samardzija might have the most upside of anyone in the system. All he has to do is give up football. :D

 

Hopefully, he threw away all of his Sox hats. :) I'll tell you about that one.

[CoolHandLuke]

Pawelek three seasons away.

 

I just hope he's not on the Ryan Harvey track.

 

He probably has better plate discipline than Harvey.

[Soul]

All 3 are obviously serious trade bait. Don't mind what anyone says about "untouchables."

[Mephistopheles]

1. Guzman. In the past - visually speaking - he has shown plus command, plus velocity on his fastball with a borderline plus breaking ball and a plus changeup. The biggest detriment to his development has been health. He pitched like 80 innings in 2005 and 2004 combined (that includes ST, and winter ball) and then basically went from AA in 2003 to the majors and AAA in 2006 while missing two years in between for all intent and purposes. It was fairly obvious that he didnt have the consistency on all of his pitches and command last season with the Cubs, though his changeup really came around the second half of the season. This year if he can keep of the injury bug he's got a good chance of being better than Jason Marquis by May and better than Lilly by the end of the season.

 

Statistically speaking he's shown above average command with above average k rates and so-so GB rates. That translates pretty well and is definitely with his stuff recipe for a potential number two starter. He hasn't shown the dominant minor league K rate his stuff would lead you to believe, and that's likely going to carry over to the majors.

 

2. Marshall He's a lefty with three average pitches and those kinds of pitchers last a long time albeit not very productively. Now if he can get his FB in the 90s like it was before the finger injury AND if he could get his splitter back before the finger injury he might be equal to Guzman, but neither of those are happening.

 

3. Marmol. Bullpen. He's a better version of Novoa to me.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

1. Veal could be da bomb.

2. Gallagher--all he does is win.

3. Marmol. Kid is going to be the Cubs closer, and soon (2008?)

4. Gooz. Too talented not to make it. Here's a name for you: Early Wynn. HOF, 300 wins. He didn't figure it out until he was **30 YRS OLD**. Guzman has plenty of time, he'll be fine.

5. Billy Petrick. If he recovers fully, he will make it. Really like him.

6. Marshall. Weak upside. I'd trade him this year.

7. Mateo. Meh.

8. Ryu. He's young, but nothing I've seen is worth getting excited over.

 

Too early/not enough info: Pawelek.

 

I agree with Tim too, Samardzija could easily be #2 on my list if he goes with baseball. And don't forget the upcoming draft, Cubs will pick #3 and I'm 98% certain will get Brackman. Based on college performance alone, I'd put him #3 on the list above.

[CoolHandLuke]

If Guzman doesn't figure it out until he is 30, he will be with another organization. :(

[Fred Hornkohl]

If Guzman doesn't figure it out until he is 30, he will be with another organization. :(

 

Just like Early Wynn was, eh?

[dacheezwhiz]

In terms of highest ceiling you have to go guzman, marmol, marshall.

However, if you're talking likelihood to achieve that ceiling, you have to say marmol, marshall, guzman. Overall, I would say marmol, guzman, marshall. I think if a starter gets injured this year then marmol should be the first to replace him. I see him as a long time starter, not a reliever. Guzman on the other hand could be a lights out closer. Speaking of closers, why haven't I heard anything about Gagne to the cubs. I can't rely on dempster another year. Back on task, i doubt the cubs will put their former number 1 prospect into the bullpen. I can see him having a liriano like year next year after helping the bull pen and getting spot starts this year. However, i can also see him getting injured for a large portion of time like liriano. I agree with the few that say we should trade marshall cuz i think his value right now is as high as it will ever be. So if he will allow us to improve at second, short, centerfield, or will bring experienced reliable pitching then i say trade him.

[questionmarkgrace]

I agree, I think that guzman may very well have a break out season next year. My concern is that he wont have a spot to perform though. I get the feeling that Wade Miller will be in the 5th spot no matter what Guzman does. And numerous sources suggest that Prior won't be ready until may which means july.

 

As for Marmol he deserves more credit. He has only been a pitcher for three years. Before that he was a catcher/outfielder.

[Guest]

In terms of highest ceiling you have to go guzman, marmol, marshall.

However, if you're talking likelihood to achieve that ceiling, you have to say marmol, marshall, guzman. Overall, I would say marmol, guzman, marshall. I think if a starter gets injured this year then marmol should be the first to replace him. I see him as a long time starter, not a reliever. Guzman on the other hand could be a lights out closer. Speaking of closers, why haven't I heard anything about Gagne to the cubs. I can't rely on dempster another year. Back on task, i doubt the cubs will put their former number 1 prospect into the bullpen. I can see him having a liriano like year next year after helping the bull pen and getting spot starts this year. However, i can also see him getting injured for a large portion of time like liriano. I agree with the few that say we should trade marshall cuz i think his value right now is as high as it will ever be. So if he will allow us to improve at second, short, centerfield, or will bring experienced reliable pitching then i say trade him.

Marmol had 59 walks and 59 K's last season. What is it about that that makes you think he's the most ready?

[CubsWin]

In terms of highest ceiling you have to go guzman, marmol, marshall.

However, if you're talking likelihood to achieve that ceiling, you have to say marmol, marshall, guzman. Overall, I would say marmol, guzman, marshall. I think if a starter gets injured this year then marmol should be the first to replace him. I see him as a long time starter, not a reliever. Guzman on the other hand could be a lights out closer. Speaking of closers, why haven't I heard anything about Gagne to the cubs. I can't rely on dempster another year. Back on task, i doubt the cubs will put their former number 1 prospect into the bullpen. I can see him having a liriano like year next year after helping the bull pen and getting spot starts this year. However, i can also see him getting injured for a large portion of time like liriano. I agree with the few that say we should trade marshall cuz i think his value right now is as high as it will ever be. So if he will allow us to improve at second, short, centerfield, or will bring experienced reliable pitching then i say trade him.

Marmol had 59 walks and 59 K's last season. What is it about that that makes you think he's the most ready?

I don't think he said that Marmol was most ready, just that he was most likely to reach his ceiling.

 

Guzman's injury history can't be ignored. It does impact the likelihood with which he will reach his ceiling. Marmol has never had an arm injury and has much less wear and tear. Plus he seems to be progressing quickly as a pitcher.

 

Guzman is the better prospect because of what he has already accomplished and the sense that he can do it again. But he has yet to show us that he can. His numbers last season weren't terribly inspiring. Here's hoping that he can figure it out.

[Guest]

In terms of highest ceiling you have to go guzman, marmol, marshall.

However, if you're talking likelihood to achieve that ceiling, you have to say marmol, marshall, guzman. Overall, I would say marmol, guzman, marshall. I think if a starter gets injured this year then marmol should be the first to replace him. I see him as a long time starter, not a reliever. Guzman on the other hand could be a lights out closer. Speaking of closers, why haven't I heard anything about Gagne to the cubs. I can't rely on dempster another year. Back on task, i doubt the cubs will put their former number 1 prospect into the bullpen. I can see him having a liriano like year next year after helping the bull pen and getting spot starts this year. However, i can also see him getting injured for a large portion of time like liriano. I agree with the few that say we should trade marshall cuz i think his value right now is as high as it will ever be. So if he will allow us to improve at second, short, centerfield, or will bring experienced reliable pitching then i say trade him.

Marmol had 59 walks and 59 K's last season. What is it about that that makes you think he's the most ready?

I don't think he said that Marmol was most ready, just that he was most likely to reach his ceiling.

 

Guzman's injury history can't be ignored. It does impact the likelihood with which he will reach his ceiling. Marmol has never had an arm injury and has much less wear and tear. Plus he seems to be progressing quickly as a pitcher.

 

Guzman is the better prospect because of what he has already accomplished and the sense that he can do it again. But he has yet to show us that he can. His numbers last season weren't terribly inspiring. Here's hoping that he can figure it out.

What does the bolded statement imply to you?

[CubsWin]

In terms of highest ceiling you have to go guzman, marmol, marshall.

However, if you're talking likelihood to achieve that ceiling, you have to say marmol, marshall, guzman. Overall, I would say marmol, guzman, marshall. I think if a starter gets injured this year then marmol should be the first to replace him. I see him as a long time starter, not a reliever. Guzman on the other hand could be a lights out closer. Speaking of closers, why haven't I heard anything about Gagne to the cubs. I can't rely on dempster another year. Back on task, i doubt the cubs will put their former number 1 prospect into the bullpen. I can see him having a liriano like year next year after helping the bull pen and getting spot starts this year. However, i can also see him getting injured for a large portion of time like liriano. I agree with the few that say we should trade marshall cuz i think his value right now is as high as it will ever be. So if he will allow us to improve at second, short, centerfield, or will bring experienced reliable pitching then i say trade him.

Marmol had 59 walks and 59 K's last season. What is it about that that makes you think he's the most ready?

I don't think he said that Marmol was most ready, just that he was most likely to reach his ceiling.

 

Guzman's injury history can't be ignored. It does impact the likelihood with which he will reach his ceiling. Marmol has never had an arm injury and has much less wear and tear. Plus he seems to be progressing quickly as a pitcher.

 

Guzman is the better prospect because of what he has already accomplished and the sense that he can do it again. But he has yet to show us that he can. His numbers last season weren't terribly inspiring. Here's hoping that he can figure it out.

What does the bolded statement imply to you?

Oops, sorry. Must have missed that one. I was juggling two kids while reading. :oops:

[hardcorecubfan]

marshal- Intellegent, strong great curve ball

 

marmol- He is just wild thing incarnate. He has raw talent that looks like Dantrell's

 

Guzman-Well all of you think he is great and i remember this conversation with Wood and his greatness/injuries. the guy is tainted in my book.

 

But for some reason the cubs love that sort of guy

[CaliforniaRaisin]

In terms of highest ceiling you have to go guzman, marmol, marshall.

However, if you're talking likelihood to achieve that ceiling, you have to say marmol, marshall, guzman. Overall, I would say marmol, guzman, marshall. I think if a starter gets injured this year then marmol should be the first to replace him. I see him as a long time starter, not a reliever. Guzman on the other hand could be a lights out closer. Speaking of closers, why haven't I heard anything about Gagne to the cubs. I can't rely on dempster another year. Back on task, i doubt the cubs will put their former number 1 prospect into the bullpen. I can see him having a liriano like year next year after helping the bull pen and getting spot starts this year. However, i can also see him getting injured for a large portion of time like liriano. I agree with the few that say we should trade marshall cuz i think his value right now is as high as it will ever be. So if he will allow us to improve at second, short, centerfield, or will bring experienced reliable pitching then i say trade him.

Marmol had 59 walks and 59 K's last season. What is it about that that makes you think he's the most ready?

I don't think he said that Marmol was most ready, just that he was most likely to reach his ceiling.

 

Guzman's injury history can't be ignored. It does impact the likelihood with which he will reach his ceiling. Marmol has never had an arm injury and has much less wear and tear. Plus he seems to be progressing quickly as a pitcher.

 

Guzman is the better prospect because of what he has already accomplished and the sense that he can do it again. But he has yet to show us that he can. His numbers last season weren't terribly inspiring. Here's hoping that he can figure it out.

What does the bolded statement imply to you?

 

I find it hard to believe Marmol is more likely to achieve his ceiling than Marshall is.

[Guest]

In terms of highest ceiling you have to go guzman, marmol, marshall.

However, if you're talking likelihood to achieve that ceiling, you have to say marmol, marshall, guzman. Overall, I would say marmol, guzman, marshall. I think if a starter gets injured this year then marmol should be the first to replace him. I see him as a long time starter, not a reliever. Guzman on the other hand could be a lights out closer. Speaking of closers, why haven't I heard anything about Gagne to the cubs. I can't rely on dempster another year. Back on task, i doubt the cubs will put their former number 1 prospect into the bullpen. I can see him having a liriano like year next year after helping the bull pen and getting spot starts this year. However, i can also see him getting injured for a large portion of time like liriano. I agree with the few that say we should trade marshall cuz i think his value right now is as high as it will ever be. So if he will allow us to improve at second, short, centerfield, or will bring experienced reliable pitching then i say trade him.

Marmol had 59 walks and 59 K's last season. What is it about that that makes you think he's the most ready?

I don't think he said that Marmol was most ready, just that he was most likely to reach his ceiling.

 

Guzman's injury history can't be ignored. It does impact the likelihood with which he will reach his ceiling. Marmol has never had an arm injury and has much less wear and tear. Plus he seems to be progressing quickly as a pitcher.

 

Guzman is the better prospect because of what he has already accomplished and the sense that he can do it again. But he has yet to show us that he can. His numbers last season weren't terribly inspiring. Here's hoping that he can figure it out.

What does the bolded statement imply to you?

 

I find it hard to believe Marmol is more likely to achieve his ceiling than Marshall is.

Considering I think Marshall is already fairly close to his ceiling, I'd tend to agree with you.

[SouthSideRyan]

If Marshall's still in the organization by the end of '07, I think I"m going to be annoyed. He can definitely build some interest with a good year in AAA, but I really don't think he's going to build up his value much more than it is now. I'm not big on him at all, and think by the end of the year he'll have been passed on the depth chart by not just Marmol and Guzman, but a couple others as well.

[Careless]

Guzman was 0-6 with a 7.39 ERA with the Cubs last season

 

he pitched in only 2 games that he went over 5 innings.

 

one he went 6

 

the other he went 5.1

 

he had a game where he gave up 8 runs to the Pirates

he had a game where he gave up 7 runs to the Rockies

 

these arnt exactly world series winning teams

 

Guzman was terrible when he got called up... Unless he can go back to old form i dont see anything from him...

ake a look at what Z did his first year up, then remember he wasn't even coming off of 3 years of injuries. Guzman was on a terrible team and showed som flashes. Now lets give him that year as what it was, a rehab, and see where he goes.

Hopefully this post was a joke.

Guzman was what, 5 years older and pitched 7 times as many innings? Zambrano pitched 1 game worth of innings that season. there are literally thousands of pitchers you could have chosen who would have been better examples

[Careless]

All 3 are obviously serious trade bait. Don't mind what anyone says about "untouchables."

Easy to ignore 0 people. Load off my mind

[Careless]

In terms of highest ceiling you have to go guzman, marmol, marshall.

However, if you're talking likelihood to achieve that ceiling, you have to say marmol, marshall, guzman. Overall, I would say marmol, guzman, marshall. I think if a starter gets injured this year then marmol should be the first to replace him. I see him as a long time starter, not a reliever. Guzman on the other hand could be a lights out closer. Speaking of closers, why haven't I heard anything about Gagne to the cubs. I can't rely on dempster another year. Back on task, i doubt the cubs will put their former number 1 prospect into the bullpen. I can see him having a liriano like year next year after helping the bull pen and getting spot starts this year. However, i can also see him getting injured for a large portion of time like liriano. I agree with the few that say we should trade marshall cuz i think his value right now is as high as it will ever be. So if he will allow us to improve at second, short, centerfield, or will bring experienced reliable pitching then i say trade him.

Marmol had 59 walks and 59 K's last season. What is it about that that makes you think he's the most ready?

I don't think he said that Marmol was most ready, just that he was most likely to reach his ceiling.

 

Guzman's injury history can't be ignored. It does impact the likelihood with which he will reach his ceiling. Marmol has never had an arm injury and has much less wear and tear. Plus he seems to be progressing quickly as a pitcher.

 

Guzman is the better prospect because of what he has already accomplished and the sense that he can do it again. But he has yet to show us that he can. His numbers last season weren't terribly inspiring. Here's hoping that he can figure it out.

What does the bolded statement imply to you?

Well it could mean that marshall's ceiling is low and Angel's is far away, so marmol offers the best combination of potential and readiness...

[hardcorecubfan]

ding ding ding we have a winner. the point is the Guzman is coming off three years of injury and all so many of you want to crown him the next Kerry wood. We all know what happens if you are crowned the next Kerry Wood, disapointment abounds