Cubs Sign Marquis to 3/21

[jjgman21]

What are you talking about? I didn't pluck stats here - these are the stats I think are best to look at with pitchers (would rather use HR/9 and ERA+, but couldn't find the baseball-reference site in time).

 

what do you fail to understand about "totality of the body of work and at least an attempt to make a reasoned prediction?"

So you want us to back up our claims but we're not allowed to use stats?

 

Makes sense.

 

don't play daft. you know exactly what I am saying. you don't use one year to evaluate and compare two players potential for the future. I can say "Marquis had a 113 ERA+" and it would be true but that really doesn't encapsulate what we can expect next year or give us a basis to evaluate this signing, now does it?

And that wasn't what they were talking about.

 

you're wrong. that's exactly what the post was about. one poster said he didn't think there was much basis for saying Marshall would outperform Marquis next year, another poster said he did last year, Raisen "backed it up" with last seasons stats.

 

I find it better to cut off prior posts when the quotes get too long, but if you look back a couple pages, you will in fact see that predicting Marquis and Mashall's future is EXACTLY what this has been about.

[Coach C]

Would be nice if MLB had a salary cap.

[FergieJ31]

Would be nice if MLB had a salary cap.

 

co-sign

[Soul]

Would be nice if MLB had a salary cap.

 

Then we'd really be screwed.

[Jon]

What are you talking about? I didn't pluck stats here - these are the stats I think are best to look at with pitchers (would rather use HR/9 and ERA+, but couldn't find the baseball-reference site in time).

 

what do you fail to understand about "totality of the body of work and at least an attempt to make a reasoned prediction?"

So you want us to back up our claims but we're not allowed to use stats?

 

Makes sense.

 

don't play daft. you know exactly what I am saying. you don't use one year to evaluate and compare two players potential for the future. I can say "Marquis had a 113 ERA+" and it would be true but that really doesn't encapsulate what we can expect next year or give us a basis to evaluate this signing, now does it?

And that wasn't what they were talking about.

 

you're wrong. that's exactly what the post was about. one poster said he didn't think there was much basis for saying Marshall would outperform Marquis next year, another poster said he did last year, Raisen "backed it up" with last seasons stats.

 

I find it better to cut off prior posts when the quotes get too long, but if you look back a couple pages, you will in fact see that predicting Marquis and Mashall's future is EXACTLY what this has been about.

Wrong. The point of discussion was about whether or not Marshall "can" out-perform Marquis. It wasn't about whether or not he will, but whether he has the ability to. I'd say those stats are plenty to backup that claim.

 

When are you going to start making your own posts instead of criticizing everyone else's without offering any support of your own?

[FergieJ31]

Would be nice if MLB had a salary cap.

 

Then we'd really be screwed.

 

We're screwed even when we spend the money - what's the difference. At least with a cap we (probably) wouldn't see escalating ticket prices.

[jjgman21]

fair, reasoned, logical analysis please.

 

Unfortunately, something this place has had very little of this offseason! It's been hard at points to read this board when you have to wade through pages and pages of arguements that lack reason, an objective view, and have some really skewed logic. The negativity (and I can understand it a bit) on this board has been SO bad this offseason it's crazy! Despite that, this is still head and shoulders above any other forum, I just wish more people would heed jjgman21's advise above.

 

 

And posts like this one ^^^^ What do they accomplish? This isn't a thread on debate tactics, its a thread on the signing of Jason Marquis.

 

I don't like it. There is a good chance that he will not get better and you will be on the hook for 21+ over 7 years. The following young pitchers can outperform Marquis.

 

Sean Marhsall

Carlos Marmol

Juan Mateo

 

There was really no point to this signing.

 

Just trying to remind people about what made this board great and how it seems as though it has gotten completely out of hand this year (96 loss season do tend to do stuff like this though). There are a lot of stubborn people on here and I doubt that much will change, hopefully people realize how they have been acting and try to tone it down.

Now what does your post accomplish? You tell me that 3 of our young guys can outperform Marquis, fair enough, but where is your logic behind it? Tell me why they will outpitch him, otherwise your post is just as pointless as you think mine was. I can say player A will outpeform player B all I want, give me something of substance to prove that point. BTW, personally I dont really like the signing much either.

 

Sean Marshall outperformed Jason Marquis last year. Is that not the kind of evidence you are looking for.

 

Exactly.

 

Marshall: 5.59 ERA, 1.52 WHIP, .270 BAA, 77 K/59 BB, 20 HR

Marquis: 6.02 ERA, 1.52 WHIP, .289 BAA, 96 K/75 BB, 35 HR

 

Marshall will be good in a couple of years. But he does not have a 4.45 carreer ERA like Marquis does. I don't like this signing particularly. But counting on Marshall is not a good idea. Seasoning him in AAA and viewing him as a possible future Cub, is a good idea.

 

Yep. Why rush these kids? Didn't we learn our lesson with Wood and Prior? Let them build up the proper arm strength.

 

bump. see the bold Jon.

[jjgman21]

What are you talking about? I didn't pluck stats here - these are the stats I think are best to look at with pitchers (would rather use HR/9 and ERA+, but couldn't find the baseball-reference site in time).

 

what do you fail to understand about "totality of the body of work and at least an attempt to make a reasoned prediction?"

So you want us to back up our claims but we're not allowed to use stats?

 

Makes sense.

 

don't play daft. you know exactly what I am saying. you don't use one year to evaluate and compare two players potential for the future. I can say "Marquis had a 113 ERA+" and it would be true but that really doesn't encapsulate what we can expect next year or give us a basis to evaluate this signing, now does it?

And that wasn't what they were talking about.

 

you're wrong. that's exactly what the post was about. one poster said he didn't think there was much basis for saying Marshall would outperform Marquis next year, another poster said he did last year, Raisen "backed it up" with last seasons stats.

 

I find it better to cut off prior posts when the quotes get too long, but if you look back a couple pages, you will in fact see that predicting Marquis and Mashall's future is EXACTLY what this has been about.

Wrong. The point of discussion was about whether or not Marshall "can" out-perform Marquis. It wasn't about whether or not he will, but whether he has the ability to. I'd say those stats are plenty to backup that claim.

 

When are you going to start making your own posts instead of criticizing everyone else's without offering any support of your own?

 

how many times do I have to say that I don't have a dog in this fight, I only want to see honesty in the debate?

[CoolHandLuke]

fair, reasoned, logical analysis please.

 

Unfortunately, something this place has had very little of this offseason! It's been hard at points to read this board when you have to wade through pages and pages of arguements that lack reason, an objective view, and have some really skewed logic. The negativity (and I can understand it a bit) on this board has been SO bad this offseason it's crazy! Despite that, this is still head and shoulders above any other forum, I just wish more people would heed jjgman21's advise above.

 

 

And posts like this one ^^^^ What do they accomplish? This isn't a thread on debate tactics, its a thread on the signing of Jason Marquis.

 

I don't like it. There is a good chance that he will not get better and you will be on the hook for 21+ over 7 years. The following young pitchers can outperform Marquis.

 

Sean Marhsall

Carlos Marmol

Juan Mateo

 

There was really no point to this signing.

 

Just trying to remind people about what made this board great and how it seems as though it has gotten completely out of hand this year (96 loss season do tend to do stuff like this though). There are a lot of stubborn people on here and I doubt that much will change, hopefully people realize how they have been acting and try to tone it down.

Now what does your post accomplish? You tell me that 3 of our young guys can outperform Marquis, fair enough, but where is your logic behind it? Tell me why they will outpitch him, otherwise your post is just as pointless as you think mine was. I can say player A will outpeform player B all I want, give me something of substance to prove that point. BTW, personally I dont really like the signing much either.

 

Sean Marshall outperformed Jason Marquis last year. Is that not the kind of evidence you are looking for.

 

Exactly.

 

Marshall: 5.59 ERA, 1.52 WHIP, .270 BAA, 77 K/59 BB, 20 HR

Marquis: 6.02 ERA, 1.52 WHIP, .289 BAA, 96 K/75 BB, 35 HR

 

Marshall will be good in a couple of years. But he does not have a 4.45 carreer ERA like Marquis does. I don't like this signing particularly. But counting on Marshall is not a good idea. Seasoning him in AAA and viewing him as a possible future Cub, is a good idea.

 

Yep. Why rush these kids? Didn't we learn our lesson with Wood and Prior? Let them build up the proper arm strength.

 

bump. see the bold Jon.

 

see the bold jjg

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I was travelling all day. Cliff notes on this thread, please.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

you're wrong. that's exactly what the post was about. one poster said he didn't think there was much basis for saying Marshall would outperform Marquis next year, another poster said he did last year, Raisen "backed it up" with last seasons stats.

 

What's wrong with this? One person says there's not much basis for X to happen. Another person says X already happened last season and then I posted the stats showing that X happened.

 

I find it better to cut off prior posts when the quotes get too long, but if you look back a couple pages, you will in fact see that predicting Marquis and Mashall's future is EXACTLY what this has been about.

 

But that's not what I was responding to! I was responding to a comparison of Marquis and Marshall last season!

[CaliforniaRaisin]

What are you talking about? I didn't pluck stats here - these are the stats I think are best to look at with pitchers (would rather use HR/9 and ERA+, but couldn't find the baseball-reference site in time).

 

what do you fail to understand about "totality of the body of work and at least an attempt to make a reasoned prediction?"

So you want us to back up our claims but we're not allowed to use stats?

 

Makes sense.

 

don't play daft. you know exactly what I am saying. you don't use one year to evaluate and compare two players potential for the future. I can say "Marquis had a 113 ERA+" and it would be true but that really doesn't encapsulate what we can expect next year or give us a basis to evaluate this signing, now does it?

And that wasn't what they were talking about.

 

you're wrong. that's exactly what the post was about. one poster said he didn't think there was much basis for saying Marshall would outperform Marquis next year, another poster said he did last year, Raisen "backed it up" with last seasons stats.

 

I find it better to cut off prior posts when the quotes get too long, but if you look back a couple pages, you will in fact see that predicting Marquis and Mashall's future is EXACTLY what this has been about.

Wrong. The point of discussion was about whether or not Marshall "can" out-perform Marquis. It wasn't about whether or not he will, but whether he has the ability to. I'd say those stats are plenty to backup that claim.

 

When are you going to start making your own posts instead of criticizing everyone else's without offering any support of your own?

 

how many times do I have to say that I don't have a dog in this fight, I only want to see honesty in the debate?

 

What have I done dishonestly in this debate? Or someone else?

[CubinNY]

I was travelling all day. Cliff notes on this thread, please.

 

Cubs sign Maruquis, world peace brakes out all over the planet.

 

Story at 11.

[FergieJ31]

I was travelling all day. Cliff notes on this thread, please.

 

3/28 for Marquis - the rest is mostly teeth gnashing.

[Jon]

fair, reasoned, logical analysis please.

 

Unfortunately, something this place has had very little of this offseason! It's been hard at points to read this board when you have to wade through pages and pages of arguements that lack reason, an objective view, and have some really skewed logic. The negativity (and I can understand it a bit) on this board has been SO bad this offseason it's crazy! Despite that, this is still head and shoulders above any other forum, I just wish more people would heed jjgman21's advise above.

 

 

And posts like this one ^^^^ What do they accomplish? This isn't a thread on debate tactics, its a thread on the signing of Jason Marquis.

 

I don't like it. There is a good chance that he will not get better and you will be on the hook for 21+ over 7 years. The following young pitchers can outperform Marquis.

Sean Marhsall

Carlos Marmol

Juan Mateo

 

There was really no point to this signing.

 

Just trying to remind people about what made this board great and how it seems as though it has gotten completely out of hand this year (96 loss season do tend to do stuff like this though). There are a lot of stubborn people on here and I doubt that much will change, hopefully people realize how they have been acting and try to tone it down.

Now what does your post accomplish? You tell me that 3 of our young guys can outperform Marquis, fair enough, but where is your logic behind it? Tell me why they will outpitch him, otherwise your post is just as pointless as you think mine was. I can say player A will outpeform player B all I want, give me something of substance to prove that point. BTW, personally I dont really like the signing much either.

 

Sean Marshall outperformed Jason Marquis last year. Is that not the kind of evidence you are looking for.

 

Exactly.

 

Marshall: 5.59 ERA, 1.52 WHIP, .270 BAA, 77 K/59 BB, 20 HR

Marquis: 6.02 ERA, 1.52 WHIP, .289 BAA, 96 K/75 BB, 35 HR

 

Marshall will be good in a couple of years. But he does not have a 4.45 carreer ERA like Marquis does. I don't like this signing particularly. But counting on Marshall is not a good idea. Seasoning him in AAA and viewing him as a possible future Cub, is a good idea.

 

Yep. Why rush these kids? Didn't we learn our lesson with Wood and Prior? Let them build up the proper arm strength.

 

bump. see the bold Jon.

You should do the same.

 

Again, you need to stop making blanket criticism. If your quest is to improve the board, contribute to it. Don't just complain about it.

[Andy]

I was travelling all day. Cliff notes on this thread, please.

Jjgman doesn't want anyone to post.

Jon doesn't want jjgman to post.

RichHillIsABeast doesn't want Disgruntled Cubs Fan to post.

DCF only wants you to post if you think Hendry is a tool.

Treeman is damning the Cubs.

Marquis is Satan.

RichHillIsABeast is keeping track of who thinks Marquis sucks so that when Marquis win the Cy Young this year he can laugh at them.

 

Oh, and everyone hates this deal now.

 

/sarcasm

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I was travelling all day. Cliff notes on this thread, please.

 

Sullivan reports Marquis signed with the Cubs for 3/$28M. Rothschild worked out with him earlier this offseason and might have found out mechanical errors that plagued Marquis last year/solutions to fix them.

[Soul]

Would be nice if MLB had a salary cap.

 

Then we'd really be screwed.

 

We're screwed even when we spend the money - what's the difference. At least with a cap we (probably) wouldn't see escalating ticket prices.

 

LOL. Well I suppose that's right.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I was travelling all day. Cliff notes on this thread, please.

 

3/28 for Marquis - the rest is mostly teeth gnashing.

 

Not 3/20 as reported this morning?

[Soul]

I was travelling all day. Cliff notes on this thread, please.

 

3/28 for Marquis - the rest is mostly teeth gnashing.

 

Not 3/20 as reported this morning?

 

According to ChicagoSports.com, it's now 3/28. Which I think we all agree is a bad thing.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

fair, reasoned, logical analysis please.

 

Unfortunately, something this place has had very little of this offseason! It's been hard at points to read this board when you have to wade through pages and pages of arguements that lack reason, an objective view, and have some really skewed logic. The negativity (and I can understand it a bit) on this board has been SO bad this offseason it's crazy! Despite that, this is still head and shoulders above any other forum, I just wish more people would heed jjgman21's advise above.

 

 

And posts like this one ^^^^ What do they accomplish? This isn't a thread on debate tactics, its a thread on the signing of Jason Marquis.

 

I don't like it. There is a good chance that he will not get better and you will be on the hook for 21+ over 7 years. The following young pitchers can outperform Marquis.

 

Sean Marhsall

Carlos Marmol

Juan Mateo

 

There was really no point to this signing.

 

Just trying to remind people about what made this board great and how it seems as though it has gotten completely out of hand this year (96 loss season do tend to do stuff like this though). There are a lot of stubborn people on here and I doubt that much will change, hopefully people realize how they have been acting and try to tone it down.

Now what does your post accomplish? You tell me that 3 of our young guys can outperform Marquis, fair enough, but where is your logic behind it? Tell me why they will outpitch him, otherwise your post is just as pointless as you think mine was. I can say player A will outpeform player B all I want, give me something of substance to prove that point. BTW, personally I dont really like the signing much either.

 

Sean Marshall outperformed Jason Marquis last year. Is that not the kind of evidence you are looking for.

 

Exactly.

 

Marshall: 5.59 ERA, 1.52 WHIP, .270 BAA, 77 K/59 BB, 20 HR

Marquis: 6.02 ERA, 1.52 WHIP, .289 BAA, 96 K/75 BB, 35 HR

 

Marshall will be good in a couple of years. But he does not have a 4.45 carreer ERA like Marquis does. I don't like this signing particularly. But counting on Marshall is not a good idea. Seasoning him in AAA and viewing him as a possible future Cub, is a good idea.

 

Yep. Why rush these kids? Didn't we learn our lesson with Wood and Prior? Let them build up the proper arm strength.

 

bump. see the bold Jon.

 

The bolded:

 

Tell me why they will outpitch him, otherwise your post is just as pointless as you think mine was.

 

The response to that:

 

Sean Marshall outperformed Jason Marquis last year. Is that not the kind of evidence you are looking for.

 

Exactly.

 

Marshall: 5.59 ERA, 1.52 WHIP, .270 BAA, 77 K/59 BB, 20 HR

Marquis: 6.02 ERA, 1.52 WHIP, .289 BAA, 96 K/75 BB, 35 HR

 

What exactly is wrong here?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I was travelling all day. Cliff notes on this thread, please.

 

3/28 for Marquis - the rest is mostly teeth gnashing.

 

Not 3/20 as reported this morning?

 

According to ChicagoSports.com, it's now 3/28. Which I think we all agree is a bad thing.

 

And if Miller and Prior are healthy (yeah, I know big "if"), then Hill gets bumped from the rotation for Marquis.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

I was travelling all day. Cliff notes on this thread, please.

 

3/28 for Marquis - the rest is mostly teeth gnashing.

 

Not 3/20 as reported this morning?

 

According to ChicagoSports.com, it's now 3/28. Which I think we all agree is a bad thing.

 

And if Miller and Prior are healthy (yeah, I know big "if"), then Hill gets bumped from the rotation for Marquis.

 

Wrong. If Prior is healthy, he gets traded. Book it.

[baseball7897]

http://images.sportsnetwork.com/mlb/getty/stlouis/2005/marquis_jason5.jpg

 

:D :D :D

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

http://images.sportsnetwork.com/mlb/getty/stlouis/2005/marquis_jason5.jpg

 

:D :D :D

 

I just don't see how you can be happy to have a pitcher who sucks on the team.