Time to Move on Ryan Church

[Rob]

It is completely inexcusable that Church is not on our roster yet.

[goonys evil twin]

It is completely inexcusable that Church is not on our roster yet.

 

I wouldn't go that far.

[Rob]

It is completely inexcusable that Church is not on our roster yet.

 

I wouldn't go that far.

 

co-sign

[RynoRules]

It is completely inexcusable that Church is not on our roster yet.

 

Huh?

[RichHillIsABeast]

It is completely inexcusable that Church is not on our roster yet.

 

Huh?

 

sarcasm

[RynoRules]

It is completely inexcusable that Church is not on our roster yet.

 

Huh?

 

sarcasm

 

Oh.

[BRASKYS SCOTCH]

It is completely inexcusable that Church is not on our roster yet.

 

what about completely unforgivable?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

It is completely inexcusable that Church is not on our roster yet.

 

what about completely unforgivable?

 

Or unpossible?

[BRASKYS SCOTCH]

It is completely inexcusable that Church is not on our roster yet.

 

what about completely unforgivable?

 

Or unpossible?

 

Touche, salesman. Touche.

[maandig]

Repetitive but please, please, please no Church.

 

Like his stats? Fine. But you can look forward to the same things that Nats fans have been frustrated at for the last two years:

 

http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060508&content_id=1444069&vkey=news_was&fext=.jsp&c_id=was

 

Ryan Church looks like an ideal every day player. Yet for whatever reason, he doesn't seem to be one of Frank Robinson's favorites. Why is this?

-- Blaine P., Washington

 

A little over a week ago, Church was on the bench because of flu-like symptoms. By the time, he was ready to play again, Marlon Byrd was swinging a hot bat and started playing most of the games. In fact, according to Church, Robinson had a private meeting with him and told him that Byrd would be the everyday center fielder -- for now.

 

I agree with the decision to play Byrd because he has experience in the leadoff spot. He has been getting on base a lot and his on-base percentage is very high. He also plays hard and doesn't come up with excuses when something goes wrong.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/24/AR2005062401922.html

[Shilzzz]

Repetitive but please, please, please no Church.

 

Like his stats? Fine. But you can look forward to the same things that Nats fans have been frustrated at for the last two years:

 

http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060508&content_id=1444069&vkey=news_was&fext=.jsp&c_id=was

 

Ryan Church looks like an ideal every day player. Yet for whatever reason, he doesn't seem to be one of Frank Robinson's favorites. Why is this?

-- Blaine P., Washington

 

A little over a week ago, Church was on the bench because of flu-like symptoms. By the time, he was ready to play again, Marlon Byrd was swinging a hot bat and started playing most of the games. In fact, according to Church, Robinson had a private meeting with him and told him that Byrd would be the everyday center fielder -- for now.

 

I agree with the decision to play Byrd because he has experience in the leadoff spot. He has been getting on base a lot and his on-base percentage is very high. He also plays hard and doesn't come up with excuses when something goes wrong.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/24/AR2005062401922.html

 

maybe i'm missing something, but what does flu like symptoms have to do with not wanting on the cubs? i know he may have some clubhouse cancer-esque traits, but who cares. give me the best players and when they start to win everyone will get along.

 

edit: bowden is still an moran

[Deeg]

This stuff with Church sounds like so much blather to me. The guy takes walks, has pop and plays an average CF. I don't see anything remotely malignant enough to give me an ounce of worry. Trade Marshall for him yesterday.

[fromthestretch]

Repetitive but please, please, please no Church.

 

Like his stats? Fine. But you can look forward to the same things that Nats fans have been frustrated at for the last two years:

 

http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060508&content_id=1444069&vkey=news_was&fext=.jsp&c_id=was

 

Ryan Church looks like an ideal every day player. Yet for whatever reason, he doesn't seem to be one of Frank Robinson's favorites. Why is this?

-- Blaine P., Washington

 

A little over a week ago, Church was on the bench because of flu-like symptoms. By the time, he was ready to play again, Marlon Byrd was swinging a hot bat and started playing most of the games. In fact, according to Church, Robinson had a private meeting with him and told him that Byrd would be the everyday center fielder -- for now.

 

I agree with the decision to play Byrd because he has experience in the leadoff spot. He has been getting on base a lot and his on-base percentage is very high. He also plays hard and doesn't come up with excuses when something goes wrong.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/24/AR2005062401922.html

 

Considering my proximity to DC, I follow the Nats a bit. While Church's attitude could probably use some adjusting (he sulked when sent back to the minors), I don't think he's been treated properly by what hasn't exactly been a well-run organization. There aren't many reasonable explanations for giving playing time to Marlon Byrd, Nook Logan, Luis Matos, etc. over Church.

 

Church somehow got in Robinson's doghouse, and it appears there's no exit from there.

[maandig]

Cubs haven't acquired Church yet, but should that change it will be interesting to see if his performance with the team provides any pause to those who follow the school of thought that stats, on their own, are the definitive measure of the value of a player.

 

Church got sent down to the minors after losing his starting spot in the last week of spring training. He said that he'd prove that he didn't deserve to lose his job with his play in New Orleans:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/28/AR2006032802188.html

 

He didn't.

 

Those who look at Church's stats and see the quality part-time production numbers he's put up the last two years feel obliged to apologize for him: Frank Robinson didn't like him. He didn't perform well in AAA last year because he was upset about being demoted. The media doesn't like him. The stuff about him being, for lack of a better word, a "pansy" is overblown.

 

But this doesn't address the glaring problem: While Robinson may not have liked Church, Jim Bowden was a huge fan of Ryan's. Robinson is gone, Bowden remains and Church is being peddled. Here's what Bowden recently said about Church: "We respect what he's done in his minimal at-bats in the big leagues." Those promoting the acquisition of Church will interpret this as feeding into their belief that Robinson refused to play Church. For people who follow the Nats, however unwillingly, the statement is code for what the fans have come to realize, Church will never have more than minimal at-bats in the big leagues and they will come when he feels like taking them.

 

I concede that I care way too much about this, but I really do not want to see Church ever come close to putting on a Cubs uniform.

[goonys evil twin]

For people who follow the Nats, however unwillingly, the statement is code for what the fans have come to realize, Church will never have more than minimal at-bats in the big leagues and they will come when he feels like taking them.

 

I concede that I care way too much about this, but I really do not want to see Church ever come close to putting on a Cubs uniform.

 

Where do you get the idea that they will only come when he feels like taking them?

 

I'm fine with him getting part-time duty. He'd be the best part-time duty player the Cubs have had in quite a while.

[baseball7897]

For people who follow the Nats, however unwillingly, the statement is code for what the fans have come to realize, Church will never have more than minimal at-bats in the big leagues and they will come when he feels like taking them.

 

I concede that I care way too much about this, but I really do not want to see Church ever come close to putting on a Cubs uniform.

 

Where do you get the idea that they will only come when he feels like taking them?

 

I'm fine with him getting part-time duty. He'd be the best part-time duty player the Cubs have had in quite a while.

 

Macias?

[Warren Brusstar]

I'd prefer that the acquire him and give him 500 plate appearances. We'll see.

 

In any event, the fact that Frank Robinson and/or Jim Bowden didn't like him in my view weighs in favor of acquiring him.

 

What's more troubling is his reputation, as I understand it, as an unabashed evangelist. That has the potential to make him a huge locker room distraction.

[NorthsideAvenger]

About Church's "attitude", that's nothing a change of scenery can't fixed. I mean if Carl Everett can keep landing a job, or Milton Bradley, keeps landed on his feet, then Church is a walk in the part.

 

I still like to see a Mateo/Marshall for Church/Wagner deal, tho.

[baseball7897]

About Church's "attitude", that's nothing a change of scenery can't fixed. I mean if Carl Everett can keep landing a job, or Milton Bradley, keeps landed on his feet, then Church is a walk in the part.

 

I still like to see a Mateo/Marshall for Church/Wagner deal, tho.

 

Cubs are stacked in the bullpen. They don't need more bullpen arms. I would be very cautious dealing Marshall. Not too many 6'7 left-handers can throw with control. I love how he keeps himself cool and calm under pressure.

[NorthsideAvenger]

About Church's "attitude", that's nothing a change of scenery can't fixed. I mean if Carl Everett can keep landing a job, or Milton Bradley, keeps landed on his feet, then Church is a walk in the part.

 

I still like to see a Mateo/Marshall for Church/Wagner deal, tho.

 

Cubs are stacked in the bullpen. They don't need more bullpen arms. I would be very cautious dealing Marshall. Not too many 6'7 left-handers can throw with control. I love how he keeps himself cool and calm under pressure.

 

First: Just because the Cubs are "stacked in the bullpen" doesn't mean the Cubs bullpen is any good. Outside of Howry/Erye/Ohman, the Cubs bullpen is full of ??? and crappy pitchers. So I think the upside of Wagner is greater then that of guys like Novoa/Wuertz, etc. And I like Marshall, but if the Cubs can fill two needs with one stone, then you do it. Marshall may never be anything more then a 4/5 starter in the majors, and those are expendable.

[YearofDaCubs]

About Church's "attitude", that's nothing a change of scenery can't fixed. I mean if Carl Everett can keep landing a job, or Milton Bradley, keeps landed on his feet, then Church is a walk in the part.

 

I still like to see a Mateo/Marshall for Church/Wagner deal, tho.

 

Cubs are stacked in the bullpen. They don't need more bullpen arms. I would be very cautious dealing Marshall. Not too many 6'7 left-handers can throw with control. I love how he keeps himself cool and calm under pressure.

 

First: Just because the Cubs are "stacked in the bullpen" doesn't mean the Cubs bullpen is any good. Outside of Howry/Erye/Ohman, the Cubs bullpen is full of ??? and crappy pitchers. So I think the upside of Wagner is greater then that of guys like Novoa/Wuertz, etc. And I like Marshall, but if the Cubs can fill two needs with one stone, then you do it. Marshall may never be anything more then a 4/5 starter in the majors, and those are expendable.

Wuertz is good and I think Wood should be just fine in the pen as well. Sounds like a pretty solid bullpen to me.

[AAApittsburgh]

About Church's "attitude", that's nothing a change of scenery can't fixed. I mean if Carl Everett can keep landing a job, or Milton Bradley, keeps landed on his feet, then Church is a walk in the part.

 

I still like to see a Mateo/Marshall for Church/Wagner deal, tho.

 

Cubs are stacked in the bullpen. They don't need more bullpen arms. I would be very cautious dealing Marshall. Not too many 6'7 left-handers can throw with control. I love how he keeps himself cool and calm under pressure.

 

First: Just because the Cubs are "stacked in the bullpen" doesn't mean the Cubs bullpen is any good. Outside of Howry/Erye/Ohman, the Cubs bullpen is full of ??? and crappy pitchers. So I think the upside of Wagner is greater then that of guys like Novoa/Wuertz, etc. And I like Marshall, but if the Cubs can fill two needs with one stone, then you do it. Marshall may never be anything more then a 4/5 starter in the majors, and those are expendable.

 

Isn't that the way most bullpens are? You really only need 3 good relievers.

[fromthestretch]

About Church's "attitude", that's nothing a change of scenery can't fixed. I mean if Carl Everett can keep landing a job, or Milton Bradley, keeps landed on his feet, then Church is a walk in the part.

 

I still like to see a Mateo/Marshall for Church/Wagner deal, tho.

 

Cubs are stacked in the bullpen. They don't need more bullpen arms. I would be very cautious dealing Marshall. Not too many 6'7 left-handers can throw with control. I love how he keeps himself cool and calm under pressure.

 

First: Just because the Cubs are "stacked in the bullpen" doesn't mean the Cubs bullpen is any good. Outside of Howry/Erye/Ohman, the Cubs bullpen is full of ??? and crappy pitchers. So I think the upside of Wagner is greater then that of guys like Novoa/Wuertz, etc. And I like Marshall, but if the Cubs can fill two needs with one stone, then you do it. Marshall may never be anything more then a 4/5 starter in the majors, and those are expendable.

 

Wuertz has been solid for two years now. There's no reason to lump him in with Novoa.

[fromthestretch]

Here's what Bowden recently said about Church: "We respect what he's done in his minimal at-bats in the big leagues." Those promoting the acquisition of Church will interpret this as feeding into their belief that Robinson refused to play Church. For people who follow the Nats, however unwillingly, the statement is code for what the fans have come to realize, Church will never have more than minimal at-bats in the big leagues and they will come when he feels like taking them.

 

I concede that I care way too much about this, but I really do not want to see Church ever come close to putting on a Cubs uniform.

 

Are you actually saying that Church, a player who was upset for being demoted, is only willing to play when he feels like it? That he'd actually pass up the chance to get some at-bats at the big league level?

 

I don't buy that for a second.

[CoolHandLuke]

What has Wagner done to make you value him more than a guy like Wuertz?